The future of road bikes and it aint pretty?
Comments
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Why is people like small steps in gearing. When i push hard i do so in one gear and my cadanace varies.
Roadies seem to be conditioned to like small steps in gearing. Mtbers dont seem to care. Maybe roadies need to be reconditioned. No matter how well your front mech is set up you sometimes drop a chain. I did that once in a race and spent the next few minutes working like a bastard to catch the group uo. I did thankfully.
The hill climb bike needs to 1x11 as i dont need a 53T ring for a hill climb.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
Roadies like small gear steps because it increases efficiency of power output on smooth surfaces when power isn't being required to vary continuously due to micro-topographical variation.
Especially for threshold efforts (sustained hard efforts of 20 mins => an hour or so) you want to be in an optimum neuro-muscular / bio-mechanical space. If you're not you can feel it, you are aware that you can't find the right gear. That feeling might be able to be "deconditioned" but I'm sure it would make people slower.0 -
I spend alot of time on road bikes. On a hill if it gets steeper my power output can remain roughly constant even if my cadance drops. I hVd never been fussy about what gear i am in so while i get whag you are saying neeb i but i will climb in 53t 12t at the same power output as i would in 39 - 16t and be perfectly happy. It comes down to what you are used to. If all you do is spin then all you can do is spin and you get fussy about the gear you are in. You can train a different way and you stop caring about these details.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0
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Yeah, me too to some extent - depends on 20 factors, the length of the steeper bit, how the legs are, how near my fingers happen to be to the shifters, etc.. On a long hill I'll alternate between cadences while maintaining about the same power output - most dramatically between slower out-of-the-saddle and faster sitting, but also between spinning faster and spinning slower while seated. But the point is that at any given time, for whatever reason, a particular cadence feels just right, and while I can use a different one if I have to something tells me I could be sustaining an extra 2 or 3 watts if I didn't have to.. Maybe it's a personal thing, something to do with ratios of different muscle fibre types or whatever, but I'm convinced that I'd be most efficient if I could have completely continuous gear shifts and see my sensitivity to cadence as an aspect of being in tune with the biological / mechanical interface between me and the bike. Doubtless if I rode a single speed I'd develop a different interface and be equally well tuned to it, but I'm convinced it would be less efficient overall.0
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thecycleclinic wrote:I spend alot of time on road bikes. On a hill if it gets steeper my power output can remain roughly constant even if my cadance drops. I hVd never been fussy about what gear i am in so while i get whag you are saying neeb i but i will climb in 53t 12t at the same power output as i would in 39 - 16t and be perfectly happy. It comes down to what you are used to. If all you do is spin then all you can do is spin and you get fussy about the gear you are in. You can train a different way and you stop caring about these details.
When it's lined out at 30mph on the flat I do find big gaps annoying, yes I can climb and ride at varying cadences but when I'm working at close to my limit I don't want to change up or down and suddenly find my cadence changes in a big way. Outside of races or that kind of fast chaingang type stuff I'm not fussed.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
thecycleclinic wrote:Roadies seem to be conditioned to like small steps in gearing. Mtbers dont seem to care.
I don't think it's that MTB don't care, but trying to keep a constant cadence is futile. Your fingers would never be able to flick gears quick enough to keep up with the changes required to keep a perfect cadence. Metre to metre the gradient and surface (and obstacles) change. You just have no choice but just to select a generally acceptable gear and get on with it.
MTB focus on range, as unsealed tracks and paths can be much steeper than sealed roads for cars. In many cases closer ratios can actually be a hindrance, because when you do need to make large changes in gear ratio a closer ratio just means more gear shifts to get there. Basically, on a mtb I've always wanted as big as range as possible, with the only limit the size of cassette the mech will fit around, and the jump in teeth a chain will shift across.
However, on a road bike the surface is much smoother, as are the changes in speed. You therefore have the opportunity to select an exact cadence and maintain it with close gaps.0 -
thecycleclinic wrote:Why is people like small steps in gearing. When i push hard i do so in one gear and my cadanace varies.
Roadies seem to be conditioned to like small steps in gearing. Mtbers dont seem to care. Maybe roadies need to be reconditioned. No matter how well your front mech is set up you sometimes drop a chain. I did that once in a race and spent the next few minutes working like a bastard to catch the group uo. I did thankfully.
The hill climb bike needs to 1x11 as i dont need a 53T ring for a hill climb.
For a hill climb or a crit, you don't need the range. A stripped down 1x setup for either of these is a different proposition to a general purpose 1x setup. A general purpose 1x setup is the core of this discussion.0 -
thomasmorris wrote:thecycleclinic wrote:Roadies seem to be conditioned to like small steps in gearing. Mtbers dont seem to care.
I don't think it's that MTB don't care, but trying to keep a constant cadence is futile. Your fingers would never be able to flick gears quick enough to keep up with the changes required to keep a perfect cadence. Metre to metre the gradient and surface (and obstacles) change. You just have no choice but just to select a generally acceptable gear and get on with it.
MTB focus on range, as unsealed tracks and paths can be much steeper than sealed roads for cars. In many cases closer ratios can actually be a hindrance, because when you do need to make large changes in gear ratio a closer ratio just means more gear shifts to get there. Basically, on a mtb I've always wanted as big as range as possible, with the only limit the size of cassette the mech will fit around, and the jump in teeth a chain will shift across.
However, on a road bike the surface is much smoother, as are the changes in speed. You therefore have the opportunity to select an exact cadence and maintain it with close gaps.
This is it. The terrain changes faster than you can tune cadence so it's just less important than on the road.0 -
I find small jumps are at their most important when riding into a block head wind, the 15 is too big and the 17 is too small.
It might not seem that big a deal but if you've done 60 miles and you've 30 to go when you are on your own, it feels like a matter of life and death. :x0 -
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thecycleclinic wrote:I spend alot of time on road bikes. On a hill if it gets steeper my power output can remain roughly constant even if my cadance drops. I hVd never been fussy about what gear i am in so while i get whag you are saying neeb i but i will climb in 53t 12t at the same power output as i would in 39 - 16t and be perfectly happy. It comes down to what you are used to. If all you do is spin then all you can do is spin and you get fussy about the gear you are in. You can train a different way and you stop caring about these details.
To be fair though Malcolm it's hardly hilly where you are
FFS! Harden up and grow a pair0 -
lettingthedaysgoby wrote:
Interesting. From what they say, the cassette is probably 9-10-11-12-13-15-17-19-22-26-32
A standard 11-32 is: 11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32
So, not that gappy at the high end, but very gappy climbing gears. Smallest climbing gear is 44x32, basically the same as 34x25. But, what's the efficiency and durability of 9 and 10 sprockets?0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:thecycleclinic wrote:I spend alot of time on road bikes. On a hill if it gets steeper my power output can remain roughly constant even if my cadance drops. I hVd never been fussy about what gear i am in so while i get whag you are saying neeb i but i will climb in 53t 12t at the same power output as i would in 39 - 16t and be perfectly happy. It comes down to what you are used to. If all you do is spin then all you can do is spin and you get fussy about the gear you are in. You can train a different way and you stop caring about these details.
When it's lined out at 30mph on the flat I do find big gaps annoying, yes I can climb and ride at varying cadences but when I'm working at close to my limit I don't want to change up or down and suddenly find my cadence changes in a big way. Outside of races or that kind of fast chaingang type stuff I'm not fussed.
I'd agree with this, I run a 11-32 cassette on my main bike and it's great generally except in chaingangs where the cadence jumps can be a bit annoying. The 32 is a great bailout gear for the steeper ramps in the Peaks, and for regular club riding I don't notice the jumps.0 -
Alex99 wrote:lettingthedaysgoby wrote:
Interesting. From what they say, the cassette is probably 9-10-11-12-13-15-17-19-22-26-32
A standard 11-32 is: 11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32
So, not that gappy at the high end, but very gappy climbing gears. Smallest climbing gear is 44x32, basically the same as 34x25. But, what's the efficiency and durability of 9 and 10 sprockets?
The gaps in teeth aren't liner. A 9-10 gap of 1t feels larger than a 1t gap at the top of the range. So, although it not as good as it first appear at the low end. Also, sprokets with less teeth start to feel 'notchy', which is why I prefer 53-12 to 50-11.
If you're doing 80 rpm and shift from 9-10, you'll have to increase cadence to 89. The first missing tooth is 14, where going from 80 rpm in 13 to 15 would be 92 rpm (15%).
I also wouldn't say a 11-32 is standard either. That's the widest block you can get on a 2x road set up. I'd say average or standard is a 11-28 (i ride 11-23 on TT and 12-25 on road). But lets compare to 11-28; the first 'missed' sprocket on that is usually a 16 which gives you a biggest gap of 80-90 (13%). Going from 11-12 takes you from 80-87 rpm.0 -
thomasmorris wrote:Alex99 wrote:lettingthedaysgoby wrote:
Interesting. From what they say, the cassette is probably 9-10-11-12-13-15-17-19-22-26-32
A standard 11-32 is: 11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32
So, not that gappy at the high end, but very gappy climbing gears. Smallest climbing gear is 44x32, basically the same as 34x25. But, what's the efficiency and durability of 9 and 10 sprockets?
The gaps in teeth aren't liner. A 9-10 gap of 1t feels larger than a 1t gap at the top of the range. So, although it not as good as it first appear at the low end. Also, sprokets with less teeth start to feel 'notchy', which is why I prefer 53-12 to 50-11.
If you're doing 80 rpm and shift from 9-10, you'll have to increase cadence to 89. The first missing tooth is 14, where going from 80 rpm in 13 to 15 would be 92 rpm (15%).
I also wouldn't say a 11-32 is standard either. That's the widest block you can get on a 2x road set up. I'd say average or standard is a 11-28 (i ride 11-23 on TT and 12-25 on road). But lets compare to 11-28; the first 'missed' sprocket on that is usually a 16 which gives you a biggest gap of 80-90 (13%). Going from 11-12 takes you from 80-87 rpm.
I didn't mean that 11-32 is standard for road use, I was just showing the sprockets in a "standard" 11-32. And, yes I'm sure you're correct that the 13 to 15 would be a bit much at times.0 -
Sorry, yes, I misread, you said the standard sprockets for a 11-32, rather than that 11-32 is standard cassette. I see now!
Anyway, I don't think the bike is ugly, and really like the look of the 3t.
My next mtb will be 1x: not bothered by big gaps to get a wide range,
I'm thinking of going 1x on the TT bike: flat terrain anyway, so don't need a large range.
As we get more sprockets maybe it will become okay for the general road bike. But for the moment, I quite like the versatility of being able to go in to hills, long slow rides and fast flat crits without swapping cassettes and chain rings around. The front shifting is super smooth and it hardly weighs anything.0 -
Just come back from our annual trip to Mallorca.Had hire bikes with compact Ultegra and 11-32 cassette. I am now used to my 1x gearing and the the thing that annoyed me most about the Ultegra (which I had before my 1x) was actually the small jumps in gears! I found myself nearly always changing two at a a time to feel the extra resistance that I have got used to. Back home it was nice to again to use the 1x,it now just feels more ‘normal’ to me to have the bigger jumps.
At the end of the day no matter which we prefer it’s riding the bike that matters!0 -
I very rarely drop out of the big ring anyway, but when I do I'm glad I can.
I'd rather that than the shame of walking up a hill.0 -
I'm going to be converting to a 1x9 drivetrain on my hybrid soon.
It's a Specialized Sirrus Elite from 2012 and is now purely my commutingr bike. My journey is 13.5 miles a little bit of up and down but rarely anything over ~4-5% and as a result I'm only using about 6 gears in total!
Since getting my first road bike last year my hybrid just feels annoyingly heavy and more of an effort to ride. So in a bid to shed some weight I'm going from the stock triple chainset to a single 42T narrow-wide ring from Amber Bikes. With the 11-32 cassette at the back, I have worked out that I'll have enough small gears to commute comfortably up the inclines with one or two gears to spare should I be feeling particularly lethargic/leg heavy/tired or if there's a nasty head wind to contend with.
Have also just ordered some Fulcrum Racing Sport wheels from ebay which should be an improvement on the stock wheels the bike came with.0 -
The thread has morphed into the mundane about gearing away from original ideal of road bike aesthetics.0
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Ideal for mutiple Mow Cop ascents - grippy, muddy, full of resident evil cars and 25%
Ugly as sin however.0 -
You're right, why have a set back seat post and then fit the seat as far forward as possible?0
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Imagine how fugly it is with the chain on big sprocket!
Worse still, with the tall head-tube and spacer stack, those hoods appear higher than the seat.0 -
1×11 would mean no more double shifts which I find a pain. But you have less chance if a straight chainline
'I do not believe in the three-speed gear at all', the sergeant was saying. 'It is a newfangled instrument, it crucificies the legs, the half of the accidents are due to it.' (From 'The Third Policeman')0 -
The trend seems to be going towards making a 'road' bike more versatile. This makes sense in alot of cases. Look more square angled bikes than traditional smooth lines with the hydro brake levers etc. Then pairing these bikes with an ultimately less versatile 1x 11 or even 12?
The caveat to my post is that I didn't like compacts when they came out but use one now and would never refit my standard!Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will0 -
Market segmentation to overcome market saturation.
Let's be clear, these are not "road bikes" they are another wallet lever to generate revenue.
Think 29'ers, Hybrids, 650b, wide heels, narrow wheels, yadah yadah...0 -
Of course they are “road bikes”.My Domane is the same bike to ride with1x on as with Ultegra it had on.The gears are just as versatile a range as it was with a compact on. It just has different gaps which to some people is sacrilege! No double shifting ,a better chain line. Not sure it’s just a fad as most main stream manufacturers have them in there range up to quite a high cost in some cases.Aqua Blue are even racing them next season I am sure they wouldn’t be doing this if they thought they would be out performed every race.0
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As you ride a 1x and like it then you're experience holds more weight than my mere opinion! But it will take some convincing me that 1x systems have better chain lines.janwal wrote:Of course they are “road bikes”.My Domane is the same bike to ride with1x on as with Ultegra it had on.The gears are just as versatile a range as it was with a compact on. It just has different gaps which to some people is sacrilege! No double shifting ,a better chain line. Not sure it’s just a fad as most main stream manufacturers have them in there range up to quite a high cost in some cases.Aqua Blue are even racing them next season I am sure they wouldn’t be doing this if they thought they would be out performed every race.Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will0 -
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