Winter training indoor gear advice

RoystonOx1

Looking for any help and guidance if possible, I have been road cycling for four months now and am looking to move indoors for the winter sessions but I need to know if I am going down the right route with the equipment I am looking to buy.

I am looking to buy:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/wahoo-blue-sc-s ... h-ble-ant/

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/elite-crono-flu ... l-trainer/

From this I am looking to measure my cadence virtually and speed whilst training indoors, I am not looking to blow loads of money but would this be a good setup for a newbie at all?

Advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated

pblakeney

Shorts. Really comfy shorts.
Really, really comfy shorts. Really.

cougie

You don't need virtual cadence - you can count that easy enough....

Get a fan. No get two. You'll need them.

And what will you do? You don't just ride inside like outside. You do harder more intense sessions.

Look up trainer road. See if your turbo is compatible.

Training is very hard. You need to be dedicated and to see improvement or you'll lose interest.

Ben6899

You'll need really comfy bibs. Really comfy.

I jest a bit - with Blakey - but it makes a difference indoors when you spend a lot of time sat and not moving around much.

Have a look in the Indoor Training section of the forum. I bought a turbo last winter and was clueless before asking questions here (I'm old school and prefer to put in long winter rides, but eventually gave in to technology!)

StillGoing

Go Rollers. Yes they take a few sessions to get the hang of them, but the benefits over a turbo are worth considering. They don't require power (unless you go for resistance ones) so can be used anywhere, no need to remove your rear wheel if using a direct mount turbo, no need for an additional wheel or turbo tyre, no chunks of tyre rubber spraying over everything, learn balance skills, work your core muscles and great for sweet spot sessions.

stevie63

I would skip the Wahoo sensor, up your budget slightly and get a Tacx Flow. This will give you speed and cadence as well as full compatibility with all the online training programs.

bobones

stevie63 wrote:

I would skip the Wahoo sensor, up your budget slightly and get a Tacx Flow. This will give you speed and cadence as well as full compatibility with all the online training programs.

I completely agree with this: get a controllable smart trainer so you can get the best out of Zwift, Sufferfest or Trainerroad. The Tacx Flow is the entry level smart trainer and can be purchased for around £200 (or less with BC discount from Halfords), and is really all you need. You'll also need some kind of computer or tablet to run these apps. I've found ANT+ sensors less hassle than Bluetooth, but both can work in certain circumstances. A heart rate monitor is also worth getting: Decathlon sell dual BLE/ANT+ HRMs for about £25.

Do you have a reasonably decent laptop or tablet to run Zwift or Sufferfest etc?

navrig2

Borrow a turbo trainer from a friend and try it for a couple of weeks. If after those 2 weeks you still want to do it then invest in something decent as Bobones suggests.

I would hazard a guess that most people buy a budget turbo, try it for a few times, hate it and leave it sitting for a couple of years before selling it for next to nothing.

You WILL need comfy shorts, a fan and some sort of distraction/entertainment.

daniel_b

I have pretty much that exact Elite fluid trainer sat in my garage, bought it about 9 years ago I reckon, and it's a quality unit, smooth, and good quality - only thing I would say is that if it's the same as mine, as in the riders weight keeps it in contact with the roller, out of the saddle sprints are not really possible.

I didn't use it that much tbh, though had some success with some CTS time crunched workouts, combined with my garmin.

However, last year I signed up to trainerroad, and this did revolutionise my indoor training - I have a power meter, so was able to use this to start with on the Elite - but I soon decided I wanted a smart trainer, to be able to better deal with the sprint efforts when they happened, and also to free up the power meter for the outdoor bike, as I have a dedicated turbo bike.

I was gifted a Vortex for my 40th birthday last year, by my other half and loads of family, and at the time, it was available for £225, and it was just bought just before our currency began it's downward spiral, so perhaps quite a bit more now.

There are limitations to the resistance the cheaper units can handle, and also as it's still a roller system, you need to keep the rear tyre inflated to the same level for each level, and also calibrate it semi regularly through the Tacx app, and also TR recommend you calibrate it through their app too, before every ride - did slow things down a bit, especially if you are trying to get a quick ride in before work.

In the end, as my gf wanted to start with TR as well, and was at the time making do with the Elite fluid one, I decided to invest\treat myself to a durect drive trainer, which requires no rear wheel, and also has very accurate power measurement - that was when my training really took off, and I've not looked back.

Having said that, I believe I could have still l progressed and enjoyed it a lot with a Vortex, so on a budget, that would be my reccomendation.

I think I avoided the Tacx flow purely because it was only a matter of a few pounds less than the Vortex at the time, sadly that no longer appears to be the case, but entirely possible that it is totally up to the job.

I know you say you do not want to spend loads, but I would warn not to underestimate how big a part of your riding this could potentially become, and as a result how enjoyable it makes your outrood riding as a consequence.

One mistake I used to make, was to wear my cheaper, or less quality shorts on the turbo - my thinking being I'm only riding indoors, what does it matter, I'll keep my best gear for the outdoor rides.

If you are just sat there spinning along, and not really doing anything specific, then I think you can get away with that, but if you are doing somethin structured like TR or Zwift, it's more taxing than an outdoor ride, so you need good quality kit.

I still keep my very best kit for outdoor rides, but now wear high quality stuff for the turbo.

If you ever get to the point of a dedicated turbo bike (It does remove an excuse for not doing a session) then I recommend ensuring you have identical saddles on the bikes, and trying to get the fit as close to each other for both bikes.

keef66

What's all this nonsense about winter training? It's mid September FFS, the sun is shining, it's a balmy 15c and there's no wind at all. What's wrong with a nice ride on the road??

fat daddy

keef66 wrote:

What's all this nonsense about winter training? It's mid September FFS, the sun is shining, it's a balmy 15c and there's no wind at all. What's wrong with a nice ride on the road??

when do you train, once a week on Sunday afternoons if the weather is clement and you can arrive at the pub without breaking a sweat.

at 5am its now 8 degrees pitch black and raining ... and its getting colder and darker for longer

RoystonOx1

keef66 wrote:

What's all this nonsense about winter training? It's mid September FFS, the sun is shining, it's a balmy 15c and there's no wind at all. What's wrong with a nice ride on the road??

Would love to still be on the road but my 1 Year old is growing to quick so deciding to get my base training early and continue it throughout main winter period whilst I can.

Thanks for the advice everyone some sound advice and is defo helping me out!!

singleton

Understand about family commitments, but is It really harder to train outside when it's colder.
I train outside at twice a week through the winter - unless it's icy. Last year I think there was only one or two weeks when I wasn't out - but this may depend on where you live.
I'll do one indoor intervals session most weeks, but you don't need to stop riding outside when the temp drops below 10C, but you do need to spend some money on decent kit.

daniel_b

For some of us, work and childcare commitments mean indoor training is really the only way to improve.

3 of my sessions are carried out when my little girl is in bed asleep, and I am in the garage with the baby monitor.
One other is carried out when I take a long lunch when I am working from home, but can't really risk a puncture or mechanical (GF at work so would be unable to collect me) which would make me late to start work again, which only really leaves one more more weekday session, that's at 4pm on a Friday.
And I usuallt try and get a proper outdoor ride in at the weekend, but that's more of an enjoyment ride than a 'training' ride perse.
Not to say I do not go hard, and or attach segments, but I don't want to overly be watching watts etc etc

I would rather train outside all of the time, but I think there are huge merits to indoor training, and arguably minute for minute, it's more beneficial - no traffic lights, no option (If you are in ERG mode) of soft pedaling, or free wheeling even.

Full attack for the whole 45 minutes, hour, or whatever it is.

fenix

If you want to improve then indoor training is the way forward especially in winter. A great use of time.

No need to stop outdoor riding though unless its icy. Getting out into nature is important to me.

navrig2

Daniel B wrote:

I have pretty much that exact Elite fluid trainer sat in my garage, bought it about 9 years ago I reckon, and it's a quality unit, smooth, and good quality - only thing I would say is that if it's the same as mine, as in the riders weight keeps it in contact with the roller, out of the saddle sprints are not really possible.

I didn't use it that much tbh, though had some success with some CTS time crunched workouts, combined with my garmin.

However, last year I signed up to trainerroad, and this did revolutionise my indoor training - I have a power meter, so was able to use this to start with on the Elite - but I soon decided I wanted a smart trainer, to be able to better deal with the sprint efforts when they happened, and also to free up the power meter for the outdoor bike, as I have a dedicated turbo bike.

I was gifted a Vortex for my 40th birthday last year, by my other half and loads of family, and at the time, it was available for £225, and it was just bought just before our currency began it's downward spiral, so perhaps quite a bit more now.

There are limitations to the resistance the cheaper units can handle, and also as it's still a roller system, you need to keep the rear tyre inflated to the same level for each level, and also calibrate it semi regularly through the Tacx app, and also TR recommend you calibrate it through their app too, before every ride - did slow things down a bit, especially if you are trying to get a quick ride in before work.

In the end, as my gf wanted to start with TR as well, and was at the time making do with the Elite fluid one, I decided to invest\treat myself to a durect drive trainer, which requires no rear wheel, and also has very accurate power measurement - that was when my training really took off, and I've not looked back.

Having said that, I believe I could have still l progressed and enjoyed it a lot with a Vortex, so on a budget, that would be my reccomendation.

I think I avoided the Tacx flow purely because it was only a matter of a few pounds less than the Vortex at the time, sadly that no longer appears to be the case, but entirely possible that it is totally up to the job.

I know you say you do not want to spend loads, but I would warn not to underestimate how big a part of your riding this could potentially become, and as a result how enjoyable it makes your outrood riding as a consequence.

One mistake I used to make, was to wear my cheaper, or less quality shorts on the turbo - my thinking being I'm only riding indoors, what does it matter, I'll keep my best gear for the outdoor rides.

If you are just sat there spinning along, and not really doing anything specific, then I think you can get away with that, but if you are doing somethin structured like TR or Zwift, it's more taxing than an outdoor ride, so you need good quality kit.

I still keep my very best kit for outdoor rides, but now wear high quality stuff for the turbo.

If you ever get to the point of a dedicated turbo bike (It does remove an excuse for not doing a session) then I recommend ensuring you have identical saddles on the bikes, and trying to get the fit as close to each other for both bikes.

That's pretty much my experience including getting the Vortex when discounted last New Year and signing up to TR.

Don't buy cheap and suffer your own attempts at creating a training programme - unless you are very committed and strong willed it wont work.

Borrow or buy a cheapie 2nd hand until you know you can stomach 45mins + on the turbo then invest in a Smart trainer.

slowbike

RoystonOx1 wrote:

keef66 wrote:

What's all this nonsense about winter training? It's mid September FFS, the sun is shining, it's a balmy 15c and there's no wind at all. What's wrong with a nice ride on the road??

Would love to still be on the road but my 1 Year old is growing to quick so deciding to get my base training early and continue it throughout main winter period whilst I can.

Thanks for the advice everyone some sound advice and is defo helping me out!!

You're lucky - still having the energy to do turbo sessions with a 1yo .... I wish! Ours is just over 2 (also growing up too fast) and we're just happy to sit for 10 minutes after he's gone to bed ... and gone to sleep - before going up too ...

Turbo training requires a mindset - 30 minutes on a turbo is boring - can you cope with that bordom? I couldn't - but I did get a smart turbo to run with VR software - I run Bkool simulator for now (laptop isn't good enough for Zwift) - it makes 30mins much shorter ...

daniel_b

Slowbike wrote:

RoystonOx1 wrote:

keef66 wrote:

What's all this nonsense about winter training? It's mid September FFS, the sun is shining, it's a balmy 15c and there's no wind at all. What's wrong with a nice ride on the road??

Would love to still be on the road but my 1 Year old is growing to quick so deciding to get my base training early and continue it throughout main winter period whilst I can.

Thanks for the advice everyone some sound advice and is defo helping me out!!

You're lucky - still having the energy to do turbo sessions with a 1yo .... I wish! Ours is just over 2 (also growing up too fast) and we're just happy to sit for 10 minutes after he's gone to bed ... and gone to sleep - before going up too ...

Turbo training requires a mindset - 30 minutes on a turbo is boring - can you cope with that bordom? I couldn't - but I did get a smart turbo to run with VR software - I run Bkool simulator for now (laptop isn't good enough for Zwift) - it makes 30mins much shorter ...

Since having our little girl, I've cycled more than ever, or let me clarify, I have cycled with more intent, and quality than ever before.
I know several friends who have had the same transformation, and for all of us it's a bit of 'me' time away from family hustle and bustle, and our other halves (Who also get their own me time) recognise that we need that outlet to survive - children are a challenge lets be honest, or if they are not now, they will be soon enough!

Ours is 4, and just started big school, so it's all pretty manic, with work for both of us, pick ups, and drop offs that all need to be factored in.
I have a flexible boss who has kids himself, and I am trusted, so I can flex my hours how I want within reason, and also get to work from home a couple of days which is a big bonus.

I know you talk about not having the energy for a turbo session, and perhaps you have a long commute or a very taxing job, but for me personally, the hours I put in on the turbo, mean I am more productive off the bike, I'm more alert, and more in the mindset to get things done, not just my opinion, it's been noticed by my boss too in my work ethic, and the quality and quantity of my work.

I find 90% of Trainerroad sessions anything but boring, firstly because I am watching something, but also because virtually every single workout challenges you to hit the numbers, and has loads of drills to run as well, be it sitting in an aero position, practicing improving your breathing, standing for 10, 20, 30 seconds or a minute.
Out and out srints for 10 seconds.
Practicing hig cadence or lower cadence.
Practicing transitioning from seated to standing and back again.
Working on your pedal quadrants, ie a slight kick over the top, push downm pull back and lift up at the back.
Linking the above into more than just the one quadrant.
Watching your leg alignment, and trying to correct or improve it.
Being more aware of your seating position in the saddle - making sure you are sat on the right area of the saddle.

There's literally loads of stuff that it takes you through, which means that the session goes by very fast, especially in one of the really challenging sessions.

I think if i literally just had a number to hit for 10 minutes, another for 2 minutes, and anothe rone for 5 minutes etc, it would be oretty tough, but with all of the extra, and what seems to me, to be beneficial stuff, it keeps me invested fully in it day in, day out.

Oh and I also have two fans - one big floor fan, and one pedestal fan, come FTP time I have both of those bad boys on full chat, and wowsas you need it!

I also suspect my laptop will not be good enough for Zwift, but will likely give the free trial a go around Christmas to see.

keef66

RoystonOx1 wrote:

keef66 wrote:

What's all this nonsense about winter training? It's mid September FFS, the sun is shining, it's a balmy 15c and there's no wind at all. What's wrong with a nice ride on the road??

Would love to still be on the road but my 1 Year old is growing to quick so deciding to get my base training early and continue it throughout main winter period whilst I can.

Thanks for the advice everyone some sound advice and is defo helping me out!!

That was slightly tongue in cheek; I can imagine that for many people riding indoors represents best use of time and allows more structured training, and the kit / technology to do it has never been better.
I don't train or race, I'm heading for retirement and cycle only for leisure and to keep fit / sane. I stay on the road through the winter doing 2 or 3 evening rides and a longer one at the weekend, but our kids have left home now and the work on the house is nearly done, so I'm not as time crunched as I used to be (I remember doing rides at 5am so I could be back before anyone was awake)

I'm sure if I was 20 again and racing I'd have the garage full of turbo cave gear, and be on Trainerroad and Zwift, whatever they are. But at 60 getting outdoors is more important for my state of mind than achieving peak fitness.

redjeepǃ

Hi Royston and welcome to the forum.

There's a dedicated forum here for indoor training, but I'll try and answer your questions. I'd say that turbo is fine for what you need, as other people have mentioned I wouldn't bother with the cadence as it may include a sensor anyway, many do (I'd check the specs).

The only other things you'll need are a computer to run the platform and a big ass fan * and a towel, (I use old bar towels), and somewhere to keep everything set up. If you have to set it up each time then you'll never use it. A lot of people will place something on the ground to capture the sweat, which is a good idea if you're indoors.

You'll also need a software app to control the unit, so you'll need wifi access and power wherever you intend to put it.

You'll also need something in front of you to put everything on (as a minimum the laptop or tablet you're going to run the app from). People use everything from music stands, tables and shelves to purpose built units like the Wahoo Kickr desk unit (which seems expensive to me for what it is). I use a large shelf and have a semi permanent set up in my shed, with a dedicated PC monitor, speakers and fan. I just plug my laptop in when I go out.

I also have a very small and very old LCD TV wall mounted with a DVD player so I can just zone out if I want to. I also have an old home theatre amp that I'm thinking about recommissioning if I can find a handful of small monitor speakers, but that's not essential.

Try googling Pain Cave for ideas....

DC Rainmaker did a huge review on all the apps here. Most cost about $10 per month, but there are cheaper and free ones.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/11/tra ... guide.html

I subscribe to Sufferfest and personally feel it's good value as it certainly incentivises me to get out and use it. It also helps provide some structure to the training, for instance they have various training plans online and do various 'events' such as the Tour of Sufferlandria (billed as the largest tour of a mythical country in the world :-) ) . Today for instance I did 'The Shovel' which is a 23 step pyramid interval session followed by a 23 step inverted pyramid session (and yes, it's hard), which I probably wouldn't have done if I wasn't on their app.

Other people swear by the other apps, they seem to fall into a few different categories.

1) Virtual reality (Zwift, BKool), where you're basically playing an online video game, with either virtual routes (Zwift) or real world routes (BKool). There's other cyclists in the same world and so you can race them etc and interact with them in some means (chat, wave etc).

2) Interval sessions (Sufferfest), where you're supposedly placed in a pro peleton which fits around an interval session (so you may be seeing video from the TdF as though you're a rider), with sprints, climbs, recovery etc that fit around the interval.

3) Power based intervals (Trainer road, Golden Cheetah etc), which I don't know much about but think it's interval sessions but don't think that there's much interaction with other players or any supporting videos.

Many of them do free 30 day introductions, so you can play around and find the one that suits you.

Hope that this is some help.

* Big ass fan was meant as a generic term for the biggest fan you can afford or fit into the space, I wasn't particularly referring to the company of the same name, but some of their fans do look really good !

http://www.bigassfans.com/products/yellow-jacket/

ben@31

cougie wrote:

Get a fan. No get two. You'll need them.

And what will you do? You don't just ride inside like outside. You do harder more intense sessions.

+1000000
Also get some towels and a mop.

Its worth getting a yoga mat, not just to collect the waterfall of sweat but also turbo trainers can be very very noisy, especially if used above another room and a mat can dampen out some of the vibration.

Redjeep! you can also do structured training plan workouts and interval sessions on Zwift. If you've a turbo trainer that simulates hill climbs you'll also get a good workout on some of the Zwift routes. Its harder than I expected.

slowbike

Daniel B wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

RoystonOx1 wrote:

keef66 wrote:

What's all this nonsense about winter training? It's mid September FFS, the sun is shining, it's a balmy 15c and there's no wind at all. What's wrong with a nice ride on the road??

Would love to still be on the road but my 1 Year old is growing to quick so deciding to get my base training early and continue it throughout main winter period whilst I can.

Thanks for the advice everyone some sound advice and is defo helping me out!!

You're lucky - still having the energy to do turbo sessions with a 1yo .... I wish! Ours is just over 2 (also growing up too fast) and we're just happy to sit for 10 minutes after he's gone to bed ... and gone to sleep - before going up too ...

Turbo training requires a mindset - 30 minutes on a turbo is boring - can you cope with that bordom? I couldn't - but I did get a smart turbo to run with VR software - I run Bkool simulator for now (laptop isn't good enough for Zwift) - it makes 30mins much shorter ...

Since having our little girl, I've cycled more than ever, or let me clarify, I have cycled with more intent, and quality than ever before.
I know several friends who have had the same transformation, and for all of us it's a bit of 'me' time away from family hustle and bustle, and our other halves (Who also get their own me time) recognise that we need that outlet to survive - children are a challenge lets be honest, or if they are not now, they will be soon enough!

Ours is 4, and just started big school, so it's all pretty manic, with work for both of us, pick ups, and drop offs that all need to be factored in.
I have a flexible boss who has kids himself, and I am trusted, so I can flex my hours how I want within reason, and also get to work from home a couple of days which is a big bonus.

I know you talk about not having the energy for a turbo session, and perhaps you have a long commute or a very taxing job, but for me personally, the hours I put in on the turbo, mean I am more productive off the bike, I'm more alert, and more in the mindset to get things done, not just my opinion, it's been noticed by my boss too in my work ethic, and the quality and quantity of my work.
<trainerroad stuff>

Hmm - mine has curtailed significantly - I used to do ~100 miles commuting a week (I know it's not a lot) - all year - plus weekend rides. Due to drop offs being in the wrong direction and wrong time I've dropped down to commuting by bike just twice a week - so significantly less miles - and it shows.

My comment on still having the energy - perhaps you've gone past the interupted sleep at night - we haven't got that far yet - so generally we're knackered - along with a 2yo that knows his own mind - trying to get the normal jobs done at home is far from easy - and they take priority over any training session! Oh, and playing with Little Slow bike is great fun and neither of us want to miss out on it - time goes too quick - we'll get more time for ourselves in a few years.

Working from home is a big bonus - wish we could ... I do agree that if you get excersise in you're generally left feeling fresher - which is why I still get my commutes in - but otherwise everything else is generally a higher priority - certainly don't want the "not doing your fair share" argument - that just leads to resentment.

agentorange88

So im in a similar position to OP, i get in from work at 7pm and have dinner with the family. The means 8:30pm to head out for a ride. My options after dark for short rides are unlight narrow country roads that are quite rough, ok in daylight but a bit of a lottery at night. Poor pavement/cycle path strewn with debris along side a major dual carrageway - not peaceful or riding circuits around the town with all the stop starts that entails.

I bought a trainer a month ago and run zwift on the ipad mini - my five year old laptop cant keep up - processor overheats and shuts off.
Monday night spent an hour using one of the training plans that pushed me harder than if i had been out on the road and to a rigid structure. Something about it telling you to ride to a figure and it recording it makes you want to hit the acheivements.
I would not have gone out on the road as it was peeing it down.
Yes the 10 minute warm up/down/interval is boring as hell - i need to find some vids to watch - but free riding in a group and structured sections keep occupied.

I went for the Elite Turbo Muin with B+ - wanted dirrect drive - and it does what I need, resistance change would be great but costs double and more than the £260 I paid (£290 at halfords with £30 saving if you buy £290 worth of gift card.

A good fan is a must, mines in the man cave and with the 10C temp and door open you sweat even with a basic fan. Very good shorts also required that fit perfectly, on the trainer they seem to bunch up more than on the road.

To build fitness, improve stamina and allow you to ride when you want and have spare time a trainer is perfect to suppliment the main rides.