Tiagra 4700: upgrade or replace?

drhaggis

Hi,

I've got an alu Giant Defy 2 with Tiagra 4700, which I use for all my riding (commuting, weekend "pleasure" and so on). After 1500 miles of scottish commute, the chain is at 0.75% wear, so I'll replace it ASAP. I guess the casette will need replacing soon, too, and by then I'd like to have a strategy.

Ideally, at a good price, I'd like to update to 105 as components wear out. However, this being a 10sp to 11sp upgrade, I can't see how that'd happen. To add insult to injury, Shimano's compatibility chart puts 4700 on its own, except for the brakes (which I've upgraded to 5800 from the factory Tektros) and little else. Therefore my best bet might be waiting for a casette replacement, and then do the full rear mech and the left STI in one go. I'd then wear down the chainring and upgrade the front mech. Is there a more gradual way?

On the other hand, this might be the wrong way to look at thing., Maybe I should just replace like by like, or a hypothetical 10-sp 4800 if Edinburgh taxis spare me that long, saving the money for a future nicer ride, that would relegate the Defy to commute duties or gumtree.

I realise that weight savings would be small, and the performance improvement smaller still (other than the extra gear), but it's more a "pimp my bike" rather than beating the KOM's around me, and would be nice if the extra cost is small. Any takes?

chippyk

My Campagnolo Veloce groupset needed a new chain, cassette and chain rings and the cranks were badly scuffed from where my shoes rub. I picked up a 5800 105 groupset for 330 and swapped it over using some spare Ksyriums I had in the garage. I also fancied the 32 tooth at the back for a trip to the Alps next year. It was not much more expensive than to replace the bits than needed doing.

If you have the tools swapping it over isn't a big job, I wanted to keep the Bianchi because it's so comfortable and like and old friend these days.

It's entirely up to you what you do, I've replaced bits on all my bikes over the years, first time I've done a complete groupset change.

milemuncher1

The 105 5700 isn't actually much of an upgrade. I've got a bike on the 4700 Tiagra, and one on the 5700 105. TBH, I prefer the Tiagra, if for no other reason, than it represents better VFM, when bits need replacing, and there's no real world difference in the functionality. There's a slight weight difference, but really, no great shakes otherwise.

drhaggis

Milemuncher1 wrote:

The 105 5700 isn't actually much of an upgrade. I've got a bike on the 4700 Tiagra, and one on the 5700 105. TBH, I prefer the Tiagra, if for no other reason, than it represents better VFM, when bits need replacing, and there's no real world difference in the functionality. There's a slight weight difference, but really, no great shakes otherwise.

Thanks for your reply. If I were to do the swap, I'd go to 5800 rather than 5700. According to Shimano, 5700 and 6700 cassettes (all 10-sp) are compatible with Tiagra 4700 but, to be frank, I don't want to say goodbye to my 32-teeth sprocket yet. It doesn't see much use, but when I need it I need it for real.

akh

I have 4700 on one bike and 5800 on the other. I can't detect a difference in the shifting.

Some people say the 5800 brakes are noticeably better, but as you've upgraded those anyway, it's not relevant. I can't compare as I have long drop brakes on my 4700 bike.

If you're fussy about cadence (I am) then the extra cog of 11 speed is nice, but that's the only difference that I notice.

Also, the new 105 is almost certainly going to be announced next year, so if it's about bling (which is a perfectly legitimate reason to buy new kit), you might want to wait until next year, or skip all the way to Ultegra, which won't be due an update for 3 years or so.

drhaggis

AKH wrote:

Also, the new 105 is almost certainly going to be announced next year, so if it's about bling (which is a perfectly legitimate reason to buy new kit), you might want to wait until next year, or skip all the way to Ultegra, which won't be due an update for 3 years or so.

Oh, that's a good point, and thanks for sharing your experience with both groupsets.

I think I'll stay put for the moment then.

Moonbiker

I wouldn't bother upgrading the 4700 apart from getting a new crankset for when the chainrings wear out as they are 4 bolt hence not cost effective to replace individually.


I got a 5800 crankset for £50 nearly the same price as 2 4700 chainrings. Also in the groupsets the 4700 crank has the biggest weight difference over 105.

timothyw

Yeah, definitely do the chainset. 200g saving to be had. Although might be more sensible to wait for your chainrings to wear out first.

Cassette, get whichever one has the tooth ratio you desire - you might want to spring to the ten speed ultegra as these should last somewhat longer (along with shifting an imperceptible amount better, and being a fair amount lighter)

Replacing front derailleur is literally pointless, they're identical apart from the name written on them.

Rear derailleur you can't do without doing the shifters.

There's a comparison here that I imagine you've already seen: http://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/210 ... himano-105

I have bikes with 5800 105 and 4700 tiagra. They're both lovely. It definitely isn't worth dumping Tiagra to upgrade, as literally the only difference is the extra cog, which isn't worth the money you'll spend.

Better choice is to get a new 'best' bike with 105...... or another frame to transplant your tiagra on to if you do upgrade.

cld531c

I'd be surprised if the casette needed changing after just 1500 miles. Probably best to buy a new chain for now and when you see a bargain on a grouset decide then if you want to change.

keef66

As it's a year round workhorse I'd just keep replacing the Tiagra stuff with more of the same as it wears out, or with whatever 10 speed chain or cassette is cheapest at the time.

And save the money for a new, best bike with whatever blingtastic 13 speed electronic/hydraulic/wireless groupset is trending when you buy.

keef66

Just to add, I have 9 speed Tiagra on my winter bike, and it shifts better than the 5600 on my summer one. Peanuts for replacement parts.

milemuncher1

keef66 wrote:

Just to add, I have 9 speed Tiagra on my winter bike, and it shifts better than the 5600 on my summer one. Peanuts for replacement parts.

I've got an old 9 speed triple Sora on one of my bikes, I had to go to a bike with 6800 Ultegra to notice any difference I'd deem worthy of an upgrade TBH.

wotnoshoeseh

Just ride it - nothing wrong with Tiagra 4700. I have 105 5800 on winter bike and best bike has Ultegra 6700 on it (older bike). Just back on the winter bike last week and I have to say the 105 5800 is better than the older Ultegra. As Tiagra 4700 is of the same generation of trickle down group sets I'd just keep it and ride it.
Plus I'd just change the chain now before it gets to 0.75% wear. That should keep the cassette in better shape and let it last a bit longer.

ravey1981

If you keep on top of your chain swaps your cassette and chainrings will last you ages...4 chains (6000mile) at least. Tiagra 4700 is very very good, actually shifts better than my ultegra 6700, just slightly heavier.

milemuncher1

ravey1981 wrote:

If you keep on top of your chain swaps your cassette and chainrings will last you ages...4 chains (6000mile) at least. Tiagra 4700 is very very good, actually shifts better than my ultegra 6700, just slightly heavier.

I'd agree with that. The only real difference I've found in my 6800 and the 4700 is that the extra sprocket on the 6800 means there's less of a gearing gap on shifts, the action is virtually indistinguishable.

jermas

^^This.

If you still want to "upgrade", you can use 5800/6800 front and rear derailleurs with your existing 4700 shifters. Obviously it'll still be 10 speed but could be changed to 11 speed (with 5800/6800 shifters) when/if the 4700 shifters wear out.
5800 is basically an 11 speed version of the 4700. 6800 derailleurs are slightly nicer.

mugensi

I wouldn't bother upgrading as you will notice absolute zero difference between 4700 and 5800 or 6800 for that matter. Replace parts as they wear out but I would stick to 4700, its durable and cheap and does the exact same job as the higher spec groupsets. It wont make you any faster and will only make you poorer.

drhaggis

Quite an unanimous veredict!

I do think, when time comes, I'll probably upgrade the chainrings/crankset for 105, but not as a temporary cure to upgradeitis. To be fair, I realised how nice 4700 is while operating my son's new rear deraileur (Shimano Altus on a Frog 55).

darkhairedlord

het 5800 shifters, crankset, derailleurs. Sell the the 4700 stuff before its too worn and you'll probably get back half the cost of the 5800 bits. Sell them BIN on ebay.

lesfirth

Changing from Tiagra 10 speed 11-32 cassette to 105 11 speed 11-32 cassette means you will have smaller gaps between each sprocket. That would make it easier to keep the cadence you want. That is obvious is it not?
Well no ,unfortunately you can only have whole numbers of teeth on your sprockets.The only difference is that you will get a 13 tooth sprocket you did not have.All the other sprockets are exactly the same.
In a fast group the lack of a 13 tooth cog may be a big deal but for everyone else it will be something that you can live with.

milemuncher1

lesfirth wrote:

Changing from Tiagra 10 speed 11-32 cassette to 105 11 speed 11-32 cassette means you will have smaller gaps between each sprocket. That would make it easier to keep the cadence you want. That is obvious is it not?
Well no ,unfortunately you can only have whole numbers of teeth on your sprockets.The only difference is that you will get a 13 tooth sprocket you did not have.All the other sprockets are exactly the same.
In a fast group the lack of a 13 tooth cog may be a big deal but for everyone else it will be something that you can live with.

The gaps on a nine speed, compared to 11 speed are noticeable, from 10 to 11, not so much. That said, marginal gains are marginal gains.