Shared Cycle Path - Is it a choice or manadatory?
defever
Posts: 171
Good morning commuters,
A technical and specific questions with some images of my commute route.
MAIN QUESTION: Does a cyclist have a choice when there is an option to a) ride on road by default and b) to go on the pavement when there’s a sign for “shared path”?
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Scenario 1:
This is A33 Bassett Avenue / The Avenue; one of the big wide main roads in and out of Southampton. I’ve been cycling on the road, safe distance from the curb, as there are two lanes on both direction and cars can easily overtake me using the second lane.
I noticed that the pavement on both side along this road is “shared cycle and pedestrian path”, as indicated on the image below.
Being one of the main roads into the city, there’s always pedestrian on the pavement and there are frequent bus stops along the way with people standing waiting for their buses to arrive. Also, the surface and the width of the pavement is inconsistent, often caused by tree root disturbing the ground, junctions, signs, litter, etc. Although it is “shared path,” I find this unsuitable to cycle on the pavement, and I can cycle much smoother and I feel safer on the road than the pavement.
QUESTION: Must I be cycling on the “shared path” if the pavement is indicated as so, or is it a choice that a cyclists are privileged and decide whether to mount on the pavement or remain on the road?
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Scenario 2:
This is section is one of the “town roads” going along M3 between Winchester and Southampton, passing through a town called Otterbourne. There are few roundabouts and this particular roundabout confuses me.
Approaching the roundabout (both ways), there’s a sign on the road indicating cyclists to mount on the pavement.
Immediately on the pavement, there is a post with the blue sign “shared path” and another sign right below it “CYCLISTS DISMOUNT”. The shared path then disappears and there’s no continuation. There’s no dropped / lowered curb by the roundabout for “dismounted cyclist” or pedestrian to cross the roundabout.
After the roundabout, the cycling sign (and not "shared path" sign) seems to suddenly reappear on the pavement, only to indicate cyclists to return to the road. There is the cyclist sign on the road but I don’t see any more sign for the rest of the road.
QUESTION: Would you go straight through the roundabout as if you are driving a vehicle? Or do you follow the sign? Again, does a cyclist have a choice on staying on road or must the cyclist follow the sign in this situation?
I'm assuming there's no "abolutely correct" answers to the questions. But these sort of things confuses me and makes me wonder what are the most appropriate and legal approach to take in these situations.
What do you do in these scenario?
Many thanks and happy commuting!
A technical and specific questions with some images of my commute route.
MAIN QUESTION: Does a cyclist have a choice when there is an option to a) ride on road by default and b) to go on the pavement when there’s a sign for “shared path”?
---
Scenario 1:
This is A33 Bassett Avenue / The Avenue; one of the big wide main roads in and out of Southampton. I’ve been cycling on the road, safe distance from the curb, as there are two lanes on both direction and cars can easily overtake me using the second lane.
I noticed that the pavement on both side along this road is “shared cycle and pedestrian path”, as indicated on the image below.
Being one of the main roads into the city, there’s always pedestrian on the pavement and there are frequent bus stops along the way with people standing waiting for their buses to arrive. Also, the surface and the width of the pavement is inconsistent, often caused by tree root disturbing the ground, junctions, signs, litter, etc. Although it is “shared path,” I find this unsuitable to cycle on the pavement, and I can cycle much smoother and I feel safer on the road than the pavement.
QUESTION: Must I be cycling on the “shared path” if the pavement is indicated as so, or is it a choice that a cyclists are privileged and decide whether to mount on the pavement or remain on the road?
---
Scenario 2:
This is section is one of the “town roads” going along M3 between Winchester and Southampton, passing through a town called Otterbourne. There are few roundabouts and this particular roundabout confuses me.
Approaching the roundabout (both ways), there’s a sign on the road indicating cyclists to mount on the pavement.
Immediately on the pavement, there is a post with the blue sign “shared path” and another sign right below it “CYCLISTS DISMOUNT”. The shared path then disappears and there’s no continuation. There’s no dropped / lowered curb by the roundabout for “dismounted cyclist” or pedestrian to cross the roundabout.
After the roundabout, the cycling sign (and not "shared path" sign) seems to suddenly reappear on the pavement, only to indicate cyclists to return to the road. There is the cyclist sign on the road but I don’t see any more sign for the rest of the road.
QUESTION: Would you go straight through the roundabout as if you are driving a vehicle? Or do you follow the sign? Again, does a cyclist have a choice on staying on road or must the cyclist follow the sign in this situation?
I'm assuming there's no "abolutely correct" answers to the questions. But these sort of things confuses me and makes me wonder what are the most appropriate and legal approach to take in these situations.
What do you do in these scenario?
Many thanks and happy commuting!
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Comments
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I would just stick to the road. There is no law that says you have to use 'facilities' invented by a non cycling bureaucrat.I don't do smileys.
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Parktools0 -
There is no obligation to use the shared path, It's your choice as to where you feel safe/make best progress. The roads from Winchester (once off the viaduct) to Southampton are horrible, with no thought for cycling infrastructure at all.
Welcome to the world of urban cycling infrastructure.0 -
Thanks very much both,
That was my hunch, but then I started thinking, is it justifiable just because it's convienient for me to stay on the road? But then again, the layout in those two scenarios are unsuitable to follow as a cyclist, if not unsafe for other road users (i.e. pedestrians and drivers to predict my actions).
I aim to commute more often by bike and less by train between Winchester and Southampton. There are other places that I find confusing to approach so I'll post them on here for education purposes.
In general, I find that other road users are "cycle aware" on the route I take. Maybe it's the time of the day I choose (avoiding rush hour traffic), but I only had very few occasions of near-misses and maybe one aggressive driver in the last 9 months of commuting.
Happy commuting everyone!0 -
It would have been much quicker to google 'highway code for cyclists' -
http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/rules-for-cyclists.html
No you don't have to use the cycle paths - it's up to your discretion. If I'm pootling along to the shops I'd err more for the cycle paths. If I'm out on training ride - then I'm on the road.0 -
The signs are not red circled - they are not mandatory.
I believe the gov's advice is that you should use a shared cyclepath if available and your speed is below 18mph - above that and you should really be using the road.
The roundabout cycle signs are a complete joke - sadly replicated in various forms throughout the country whereby cyclists become third class transport - shunned by motorvehicles and pedestrians alike.
My only advice on the use of cycle paths is to use them where you feel the need - I use one when the cross wind conditions make it dodgy to use the road as it's tricky to hold a straight line whilst being overtaken - fortunately doesn't happen often.0 -
I've read the 18 mph figure before. but realistically pedestrians only do 1 - 4 mph, and usually go in both directions, so unless it's a little used path anything over 6 mph is unsafe on a shared use path. You are in the eyes of others either a too fast pedestrian or a too slow road vehicle.0
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Bassett Avenue is a horrid road to ride on most of the time, there are far quieter and nicer options, depending upon where you are going. Earlier this year, I once did an extended commute up Bassett Green Road and then followed Bassett Avenue through "town" to Bitterne early afternoon, never again by choice!
If you have to travel along it, I would probably choose to use the shared pathway, but at a slower pace.
I recall ~20 years ago having a twunt leave a driveway at a fair pace but then have have to stop for traffic on Bassett Avenue, just as I was cycling on the shared path going north. My front wheel bounced square on to their front car tyre!
More recently, while heading south to join Highfield Lane, I had another twunt wanting to pull out from a side road (Chetwynd?) to head south, but they wanted the right lane (which had queuing traffic). Apparently this made it fine to block the free flowing traffic in the left lane, despite seeing me heading towards them at ~20mph, I had to skid to a stop!
Anyway, enough of my ranting about this detestable road, http://www.cyclestreets.net/ might give you some alternative ideas.================
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2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
2016 Voodoo Wazoo0 -
mrfpb wrote:You are in the eyes of others either a too fast pedestrian or a too slow road vehicle.
I think this is part of the reason why cycling has such a complex stigma. I'm very conscious of cycling now, aiming to be a well-mannered and considerate cyclist.Fenix wrote:It would have been much quicker to google 'highway code for cyclists' -
http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/rules-for-cyclists.html
Thanks very much for this, Fenix. I wanted to post questions on here to learn from others as well as to share with others. I will learn the code to improve my riding skill on road and NOT for shouting criticism to other road users (I’ve seen enough YouTube clips to realise that this very behaviour does not make anything different or better).Fenix wrote:. If I'm pootling along to the shops I'd err more for the cycle paths. If I'm out on training ride - then I'm on the road.
I completely agree with this. If I’m out cycling and enjoying the park with friends or cycling to pub for lunch, then definitely on shared cycle path. When I’m commuting, I want to keep up the pace to exercise and get to the destination on time.
Many thanks everyone for your comments. Happy commuting!0 -
There's one of those on Exning Road into Newmarket. It's a positively suicidal place to try and ride. Dozens of side roads, with little indication to emerging drivers that they should anticipate cyclists before they reach the road proper. Street furniture, bus shelters, random changes of surface and the width of the thing, and then it spits you out again onto the road at it's busiest point.
The TOB went the other way along it on Friday in the rain. I didn't spot any of them on the pavement. If it's good enough for Lars Boom, it's good enough for me...0 -
keef66 wrote:There's one of those on Exning Road into Newmarket. It's a positively suicidal place to try and ride. Dozens of side roads, with little indication to emerging drivers that they should anticipate cyclists before they reach the road proper. Street furniture, bus shelters, random changes of surface and the width of the thing, and then it spits you out again onto the road at it's busiest point.
The TOB went the other way along it on Friday in the rain. I didn't spot any of them on the pavement. If it's good enough for Lars Boom, it's good enough for me...
well theyd kicked two riders off earlier in the race for trying
stick to the road if you feel safe enough, dont assume someone in a council office drawing lines on a computer screen has any idea what good cycling paths should be like, they often use a methodology of pedestrian with wheels, so the distances and sizes of entry/exit to the paths are perfectly sized for walking, but take no account of the distance/speed you can travel on a bike and why so much relies on you hopping on/off the bike. 0 -
As others have said, neither 'facility' is mandatory. I make the decision as I'm going along.
Example: NSL, one lane road in rush hour I'd be on the shared cycle path. Probably. On the way home (4/5am) I'm probably in the road. Oddly, this road is currently having an eco-lane built which will be for 'green' vehicles and bicycles. It had better be a darn sight better that what's currently on offer.The only disability in life is a poor attitude.0 -
I've never used a cycle path and don't intend to any time soon. The vast majority aren't fit for purpose.0
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I think when the latest highway code was being drafted it said "you should use the cycle path" and this was removed after pressure from various cycling groups.Fenix wrote:It would have been much quicker to google 'highway code for cyclists' -
http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/rules-for-cyclists.html
No you don't have to use the cycle paths - it's up to your discretion. If I'm pootling along to the shops I'd err more for the cycle paths. If I'm out on training ride - then I'm on the road.
When the TOB can around here the council removed a load of speed humps because they were deemed too dangerous for the pro riders. After the tour, they went and put them back :roll:keef66 wrote:The TOB went the other way along it on Friday in the rain. I didn't spot any of them on the pavement. If it's good enough for Lars Boom, it's good enough for me...0 -
lettingthedaysgoby wrote:I've never used a cycle path and don't intend to any time soon. The vast majority aren't fit for purpose.
Some are great. There's some good ones by me that are a much better option than the roads. Have a good look round....0 -
cougie wrote:lettingthedaysgoby wrote:I've never used a cycle path and don't intend to any time soon. The vast majority aren't fit for purpose.
Some are great. There's some good ones by me that are a much better option than the roads. Have a good look round....
I've got an option of a couple on my route home - rarely use them - first one runs alongside the road and is just the footpath - the surface condition is terrible for road bikes and it's a lot slower than using the road. I only use it if the weather conditions suggest I'd be better off on it.
The other one is away from the road - it does take longer to ride than along the road but it's arguably "nicer" despite the compacted surface (no tarmac) - I tend to use it if I'm in a "can't be arsed" mood - or if family are riding up to meet me.
I believe one advantage of the away from the road one is that drivers don't tend to be aware of it, so don't consider that I _should_ be using it - and therefore not "punished" for riding on the road.... whereas the ones that are painted on the road or (worse) part of the footpath are obvious to the driver - so there's more likely to be a thought of "you should be using it" ...0 -
Slowbike wrote:I believe one advantage of the away from the road one is that drivers don't tend to be aware of it, so don't consider that I _should_ be using it - and therefore not "punished" for riding on the road.... whereas the ones that are painted on the road or (worse) part of the footpath are obvious to the driver - so there's more likely to be a thought of "you should be using it" ...
THIS! It shouldn't matter, but I worry about the perception of other road users.
"There's a 'cycle lane', get off the road!" - type comments.
I haven't had this type of encounter but I'm anticipating such rants or honks from tailgating cars sooner or later. Especially on those roads that I mentioned on my initial post.
My defence is that:
1) I'm not significantly slowing the traffic: I’m not pootling along, I’m cycling at red line zone going average of 17mph whole way, 35mph at some downhills.
2) There are plenty of space and places to overtake safely.
Anyone had this kind of encounter with other road users before?
Happy motoring!0 -
Yes!defever wrote:Anyone had this kind of encounter with other road users before?
Twice on my commute where there is a short shared use cyclepath (less than 1 mile) which would involve crossing the road twice ... I have NEVER used that cyclepath going to work - only infrequently when coming home.
Two days running, a passenger shouted "use the cyclepath" out of the window to me ... It was a few years ago so memory is a bit hazy - but I think they "close passed" too ... I had the camera going the third day but they didn't show ... and haven't since.0 -
I've had someone attempt to overtake me and forced me in to the gutter when cycling downhill, even though i) I was approaching a traffic island and ii) the car in front of me was braking. I can only assume that the person was so annoyed at having a bike in front of them (and so entitled to get past) they were not able to mentally acknowledge any other hazard on the road.0
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I found this link this morning when searching for something else. It hilghlights some concerns I raised on this thread and some answers (opinionated, with some possibly dated reference to the relevant UK law) to my questions:
Cycling Uphill: Rules and laws of cycling (August 15, 2014)
An interesting read nevertheless. Cycling and its law is much more comlincated than I thought...
Happy cycling!0 -
Why you don't have to use cycle lanes/paths!
http://wcc.crankfoot.xyz/facility-of-the-month/Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0 -
To be fair, that will probably stop some drunken idiot riding straight down the stairs.I don't do smileys.
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Parktools0 -
The Rookie wrote:Why you don't have to use cycle lanes/paths!
http://wcc.crankfoot.xyz/facility-of-the-month/
http://wcc.crankfoot.xyz/facility-of-th ... ly2017.htm ================
2020 Voodoo Marasa
2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
2016 Voodoo Wazoo0 -
Did you not look at the other 200odd?cooldad wrote:To be fair, that will probably stop some drunken idiot riding straight down the stairs.Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0 -
Welcome to the forum from someone else who rides that area occasionally now, after 5 years living nearby and riding it regularly.
As mentioned - no mandatory use of cycle paths/tracks . consider the risks of doing so, and not doing so, and the associated conflict the paths put you into.
I suggest joining http://www.southamptoncyclingcampaign.org.uk/Intent on Cycling Commuting on a budget, but keep on breaking/crashing/finding nice stuff to buy.
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The Rookie wrote:
Did you not look at the other 200odd?cooldad wrote:To be fair, that will probably stop some drunken idiot riding straight down the stairs.
I did now. Keeps life interesting, avoiding stuff.I don't do smileys.
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Parktools0
