Defy to TCR - mistake?

johngti

Another option would be to get a -6 degree stem (or something even closer to zero) and sliding the shifters up the bar a little

Websta24

Bianchi Dave wrote:

James - don't think its been mentioned so far, but sounds like you'd benefit from a proper bike fit (from a reputable fitter). Others can look at the bike and give ideas but without knowing your exact dimensions and flexibility its a bit hit and miss. Given your'e only 30 you've also plenty time to do some stretching which will help immensely!

I can honestly say a retul bike fit is the best money I've ever spent on cycling (and I've spent a fair bit!)

THIS

I was reading all the comments and this is exactly my thoughts. Get yourself to a Bike Fit specialist. They will test flexibility as well as setting up your position.

ajkerr73

I have a 2015 Defy Advanced Pro 1 and a 2016 TCR Advanced Pro 1.

I bought the TCR as I fancied a go at some road races and discs are obviously persona-non-grata.

I can do a long ride on either bike but there is no doubt whatsoever which bike is the comfiest to ride - The Defy.

3 main reasons i'd say.

1. 28mm rubber on the Defy - the TCR will only take 25mm
2. The D-Fuse seat post on the Defy must (although I have no proof) be more compliant than the aero post on the TCR.
3. TCR frame stiffness is greater than the Defy.

If I want to go and ride hard at 19mph+ I'll ride the TCR
If i'm out for a less fast ride or a multi day ride i'm on the Defy.

ajkerr73

DJ58 wrote:

James the TCR just does not look right with the stem flipped up, leave it in the negative position at the top of the steerer tube as in photo 1 and work on your flexibility, also double check that your saddle is not set too high.

Unless you value the "look" more than the comfort, I'd be ignoring this one.

PS. The clear issue is that you have Quads where your forearms should be. Can you have this procedure reversed?

jamesbeaumont

I have the stem back in its original position now. After ensuring the saddle was completely flat, I have been ok with the bar height.

I will definitely get a bike fit when I can. Trouble is I'm in the Highlands so I don't have many options here.

Thanks for all your help guys!

bendertherobot

Just to bump this, I am afraid my TCR really isn't agreeing with me over say 50 miles. May have to swap it.

bristolpete

bendertherobot wrote:

Just to bump this, I am afraid my TCR really isn't agreeing with me over say 50 miles. May have to swap it.

Did 102 miles solo on mine last week. 6 hours. Certainly a fab bike, but I reread the OP's comments and the bike does send a lot of feedback through the pedals and seat post. Took me a few days to recover overall and no doubting a Defy / Domane would have been smoother. Have to say though, still the best climbing bike I have owned as the BB stiffness is insane for seated climbing and I tend to do a lot of middle distance 30-65 +4000 feet ^ rather than the 100's. I run turbo cotton 28mm which help.

I am staying with mine for one more season / year as have high hopes for the 2021 TCR which 'should' yield a new frame / forks combo in keeping with the current fashion. Had a few bikes come and go in the last few years, but something about the TCR I love hence waiting on the next gen.

bendertherobot

Yep. It's there that I suffer. So dead feet by the end of it. Sore arse and back, and also some pain in the hands. It is fabulous but it takes me days to recover. And I am doing a 400k and 600k audax next year. So it's really not going to work!

bristolpete

bendertherobot wrote:

Yep. It's there that I suffer. So dead feet by the end of it. Sore ars* and back, and also some pain in the hands. It is fabulous but it takes me days to recover. And I am doing a 400k and 600k audax next year. So it's really not going to work!

Yes, certainly something I noted on the bike. I thought about buying some 'less stiff shoes' as running s-works 7 which again are very stiff. I think this is what the OP was talking about with aching quads. I actually removed my Pro stealth saddle which I had not had long as put some power saddle back too as a bit more flex than the carbon base coupled with the TCR post / frame. In reality, these bikes are designed around flexible 25 year old pro riders and whilst we all have the choice to ride them the industry obsession with absolute stiffness not ideal for us old timers. Thankfully I run 21mm internal wheels which allow 28mm tyres to shape well and fit the TCR no problem. That said, I sold my old Cervelo S5 after 4 weeks as that bike was just on another level stiffness wise at the rear and on my local roads ( read battered ) it was so harsh I literally could not ride it.

bristolpete

This tickles my fancy too but not sure. As before, 9 months till 2021 TCR arrives and bicycle time flies.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/defy- ... pro-2-2020

bendertherobot

I'm fancying last years. Better get mine advertised.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/defy-advanced-pro-2

ajkerr73

bendertherobot wrote:

Yep. It's there that I suffer. So dead feet by the end of it. Sore ars* and back, and also some pain in the hands. It is fabulous but it takes me days to recover. And I am doing a 400k and 600k audax next year. So it's really not going to work!

Pretty much exactly what I described above.

A fun bike to ride, and probably fine for a youngster over any distance, but not a comfortable place to be on UK road surfaces over longer durations.

cowboyjon

I went from a 2018 Defy advanced 1 to a TCR recently.

I have no idea how anyone could find the Defy some kind of comfy couch and the TCR an uncomfortable race bike. I found them much of a muchness in that regard really.

That being said the TCR is a better bike in every other way and although I liked my Defy (it was my first 'expensive' bike) I wouldn't swap back again for all the tea in Yorkshire.

bristolpete

cowboyjon wrote:

I went from a 2018 Defy advanced 1 to a TCR recently.

I have no idea how anyone could find the Defy some kind of comfy couch and the TCR an uncomfortable race bike. I found them much of a muchness in that regard really.

That being said the TCR is a better bike in every other way and although I liked my Defy (it was my first 'expensive' bike) I wouldn't swap back again for all the tea in Yorkshire.

There is the paradox of budget and opinion.

Advanced 1 was in effect a budget bike. Which TCR did you buy ? Same level / spec / grade / OD2 steerer ?

Horses for courses. Certainly in the last few years as I ebb ever closer to 50 now only 2 years away uber stiff bikes have become a chore at times such is the terrain I ride on. Did 40 miles this morning on the TCR and very noticable on some surfaces that you bounce along rather than roll - short sleeves and was watching the vibration on my arms - with 80 psi on the front too. I am far from pro, pretty average and never been a particularly fast cyclist so for me, moving from a TCR to a Defy not a big deal.

bendertherobot

Before I give up completely I may try:

1. Dropping the saddle very slightly;
2. The D Fuse Handlebar from the Defy https://www.h2gear.co.uk/128707/product ... lebar.aspx
3. Better bar tape, cos the TCR stuff is awful. Nice and grippy, but zero shock absorption.

bristolpete

bendertherobot wrote:

Before I give up completely I may try:

1. Dropping the saddle very slightly;
2. The D Fuse Handlebar from the Defy https://www.h2gear.co.uk/128707/product ... lebar.aspx
3. Better bar tape, cos the TCR stuff is awful. Nice and grippy, but zero shock absorption.

Don't waste your money on the bars. I tried them and brought on even more road buzz due to the cheap shot peened alloy. Gave them away. If you spend the money go carbon. 'Apparently' carbon aero bars have more lateral flex so often help. Naturally you will need over drive 2.

bendertherobot

bristolpete wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Before I give up completely I may try:

1. Dropping the saddle very slightly;
2. The D Fuse Handlebar from the Defy https://www.h2gear.co.uk/128707/product ... lebar.aspx
3. Better bar tape, cos the TCR stuff is awful. Nice and grippy, but zero shock absorption.

Don't waste your money on the bars. I tried them and brought on even more road buzz due to the cheap shot peened alloy. Gave them away. If you spend the money go carbon. 'Apparently' carbon aero bars have more lateral flex so often help. Naturally you will need over drive 2.

Did you try the D_fuse ones though? Standard on the Defy Pro. Also, all I need is the bars surely? 31.6mm standard regardless of the OD2?

bristolpete

bendertherobot wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Before I give up completely I may try:

1. Dropping the saddle very slightly;
2. The D Fuse Handlebar from the Defy https://www.h2gear.co.uk/128707/product ... lebar.aspx
3. Better bar tape, cos the TCR stuff is awful. Nice and grippy, but zero shock absorption.

Don't waste your money on the bars. I tried them and brought on even more road buzz due to the cheap shot peened alloy. Gave them away. If you spend the money go carbon. 'Apparently' carbon aero bars have more lateral flex so often help. Naturally you will need over drive 2.

Did you try the D_fuse ones though? Standard on the Defy Pro. Also, all I need is the bars surely? 31.6mm standard regardless of the OD2?

Yes I did, cheap rubbish. It made it worse. Sorry was talking about one piece carbon bars. 0D2 is the steeerer size inch and a half over inch / eighth. You can only run Giant stems or Canyon OD2 which giant also make. But yes, 31.6 bars if bar only.

bendertherobot

Fair points. Best not mess with it if selling it.

bristolpete

According to the commentary on the Tour of Britain, the big dogs have said 2021 disc only so might make the move now too. My TCR caliper. Shame as writes off some nice wheels.

bendertherobot

I might just get an endurace

bristolpete

bendertherobot wrote:

I might just get an endurace

Good call, made by Quest composites who I understand are Giant in China.

pilot_pete

I can’t buy it that the OP cannot get comfy on the bike. I think he just needs to have it fitted correctly - judging from his lack of experience/ knowledge and the pictures he has posted he is searching through the bike fit fog just trying random changes in the hope of getting comfortable. It appears he has been sliding forwards and combining that with an incorrect reach and drop is putting too much weight on his arms/ wrists. That will fatigue you whatever bike you are riding.

Bike fitting is a process starting with the shoe/ pedal interface and then working up to the saddle height/ fore and aft to get your c of g correct and your knee bend at the bottom of the pedal stroke optimum to allow efficient delivery of power. Once that is set then you sort out the front end for reach and drop including bar/ hoods interface.

It could be that some of the stock components such as handlebars are harsher and transmit road buzz. Maybe even bar tape could affect that. Reach is a combination of stem length and handlebar dimensions - the same stem can give very different positions using different bars etc. I personally a short reach bar and shallow drop, which allows for less dramatic differences between hoods and drops positions. Riding in the drops for an extended time causes me niggles as I, just not as flexible as I once was...

I’m 52 yo, ride three different road bikes, one harsh aero, one similar geometry but less aero and a cyclocross winter bike. I am comfy on all of them and chose the harsh aero bike for a 200 miler a few months ago - sure I was tired at the end of that but not beaten up. The key is all the bikes are fitted correctly so I am comfortable.

PP

bristolpete

Pilot Pete wrote:

I can’t buy it that the OP cannot get comfy on the bike. I think he just needs to have it fitted correctly - judging from his lack of experience/ knowledge and the pictures he has posted he is searching through the bike fit fog just trying random changes in the hope of getting comfortable. It appears he has been sliding forwards and combining that with an incorrect reach and drop is putting too much weight on his arms/ wrists. That will fatigue you whatever bike you are riding.

Bike fitting is a process starting with the shoe/ pedal interface and then working up to the saddle height/ fore and aft to get your c of g correct and your knee bend at the bottom of the pedal stroke optimum to allow efficient delivery of power. Once that is set then you sort out the front end for reach and drop including bar/ hoods interface.

It could be that some of the stock components such as handlebars are harsher and transmit road buzz. Maybe even bar tape could affect that. Reach is a combination of stem length and handlebar dimensions - the same stem can give very different positions using different bars etc. I personally a short reach bar and shallow drop, which allows for less dramatic differences between hoods and drops positions. Riding in the drops for an extended time causes me niggles as I, just not as flexible as I once was...

I’m 52 yo, ride three different road bikes, one harsh aero, one similar geometry but less aero and a cyclocross winter bike. I am comfy on all of them and chose the harsh aero bike for a 200 miler a few months ago - sure I was tired at the end of that but not beaten up. The key is all the bikes are fitted correctly so I am comfortable.

PP

Debated to death on here and other forums. Fact is some bikes are less comfortable than others by design and what the bike is about irrespective of position. Also, fair to say what some find comfy others will not. I found the Propel an easier bike to ride than the TCR in terms of absolute stiffness, but others found the propel not ideal. Credit on the 200 miler. Certainly a goal of mine next year if I end up on a Defy. I rode 102 miles the other day as my Dad was having major surgery due to cancer and had a ride where I could have ridden double as felt in it as you say but know that a Defy may help even more. And lets face it, the speed at which most forumites ride at the bike academic.

bendertherobot

I should be shot for considering a madone, right?

roubaixmb

bendertherobot wrote:

I should be shot for considering a madone, right?

For a 400km audax? Maybe?

bendertherobot

There's a 600k one too mind. Does that help?

bendertherobot

BTW, I meant Domane, not Madone

bristolpete

bendertherobot wrote:

BTW, I meant Domane, not Madone

Never read a bad review - only caveat is slightly heavy if you like light bikes. Would imagine they ride like a dream.

bendertherobot

Narrowed it down to:

Defy Advanced Pro 2
Endurace CF SL 8.0
Domane SL5 Disc