Requiring a bit of advice with regards to two aspects.

jonny135

Hi there,

I recently purchased a 13 Intuition Beta Road bike (as an employee of halfords I got the bike for a steal) and I have two real issues with the bike. However, my knowledge is very limited when it comes to bikes and so I require help.

Firstly, the stock TRP brakes are rather underwhelming. They work, but underwhelming. Would I be able to upgrade these even though I have rear facing caliper mounts and deep sectioned rims?

Secondly, and fundamentally more importantly, I was getting some horribly vibration when under harder braking, and I initially put it down to the rims however I've realised it was the headset being loose somewhat. So, I tightened it back up and it felt wonderful... until about two weeks after and it has gone loose feeling again! Could this be a bad headset or could this be something more serious?

The link for the bike & it's spec is: http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bikes/r ... uitionbeta

If anybody could give me a bit of advice or even some direction when it comes to learning about aspects of the bike that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

cougie

Wouldn't you be better off taking it into your shop for your mates to look at ?

jonny135

One guy has a decent idea of the headset being loose - just having us both free and able to look at my own bike is more problematic. Having a few days off for me means I can truly investigate why it could be

Orkneylad

If the stem plug is gradually coming loose over time then that's a nasty worry. Perhaps the brakes just aren't set-up properly?

jonny135

The has only been new for roughly 2 months & the headset keeps wobbling loose, in that period of time I've tightened the headset 3 times to prevent the horrible front end vibration. After tightening, it goes away. But it should not be naturally coming loose that swiftly, should it?

My knowledge of headsets really limits me here, I could get the front fork off my bike but I couldn't tell you what parts are in my headset or what I'd need to swap one out either.

cougie

That's not right. Take it in to the shop for them to fix. It's not your problem. Also get them to check the brakes are ok whilst it's there.

sungod

if the headset is loosening the most likely cause is the stem slipping on the steerer, having a loose stem is dangerous

as above, take it back to the shop and get it sorted out

Orkneylad

sungod wrote:

if the headset is loosening the most likely cause is the stem slipping on the steerer, having a loose stem is dangerous

as above, take it back to the shop and get it sorted out

You'd probably notice some visually wonky misalignment of the bars-to-wheel if that was the cause I reckon?
Either way (that or the plug loosening) quite dangerous.

mouth

Even though you bought it with employee discount, you're still entitled to the same warranties and after service as the rest of us. Unless you 'liberated' it and can't really return it.

Troll?

sungod

Orkneylad wrote:

sungod wrote:

if the headset is loosening the most likely cause is the stem slipping on the steerer, having a loose stem is dangerous

as above, take it back to the shop and get it sorted out

You'd probably notice some visually wonky misalignment of the bars-to-wheel if that was the cause I reckon?
Either way (that or the plug loosening) quite dangerous.

it's a common misconception that the plug+topcap holds things together, that is not it's purpose, as far as headset loading goes it's only there to set initial preload, then the stem needs clamping

from that point the stem is responsible for holding it all together - you should be able to ride safely even if the topcap is removed

barring less likely issues with the headset/steerer/headtube, the only way the headset can unload is if the stem slips, i.e. the stem is too loose

the forces that go through the stem can be large, if the stem is loose the force can gradually drive the plug upwards in the steerer tube (unless the plug is epoxied in place), this can be misunderstood as due to the plug being loose, but of course it's actually the stem

slowbike

a) Whilst the brakes may not be best of class - they should be adequate - "upgrading" the brake blocks may improve the performance a little, but ultimately you may need to replace at least the front brake to notice large improvements.

b) a forever loosening headset is not good. TBH, whilst the advice to take it back from whence it came is true, I'd add a bit of caution - if it's to the same guys that set it up to start with, then I don't see how taking it back is going to resolve the situation. Of course, they may have handed it to you without fitting the headset - or it may have been a junior who set it up and the top mech can sort it.
You said you tightened it back up - but not explained what you did to tighten it.

My preference would be to take it to a local independant bike shop* and ask their advice - it's most likely to be a simple 2 minute fix - or it may not. If it is, then you'll learn something and they'll gain a customer - if not, then at least you know why you're taking it back to where you bought it.

* pref one with a good reputation that the local cycling group tends to use.

jonny135

Slowbike wrote:

Of course, they may have handed it to you without fitting the headset - or it may have been a junior who set it up and the top mech can sort it.
You said you tightened it back up - but not explained what you did to tighten it.

When the bikes are assembled the front fork is already pre-installed. When the bike was assembled & even after I tightened the stem & headset I torqued it to the recommended value which if memory serves it is around 5-7nm roughly. I'll have a tech look at it and see what they think is wrong with it, if it continues to loosen off I think I will do as you say and get an independent tech to look at it. As you alluded to earlier, the forces are extensive so I don't want any damage.

sungod

did you...
remove top cap
remove stem from steerer
make sure the steerer and clamping surfaces of the stem are free of grease
replace stem on steerer
replace top cap, put weight on frame to ensure lower bearing is seated, keeping weight on frame also put weight on stem to ensure upper bearing is seated
tighten top cap to preload, 2Nm should be plenty, it can be less
align and tighten stem

cycleclinic

I use spyres most days. chainging to EBC deore M525 pads has transformed the brakes. They now work well. with the RWD pads supplied they were medicore at best. so change the pads.

As for the stem it has already been covered however the steer could be undersized. It can happen and then you can never get the headset to stay play free for long.

jonny135

With regards to yourself, Sungod, I followed your instructions and also got a colleague to try tightening the steerer insert that's in the fork with no avail. It appears to still have a slight amount of rocking motion which my colleague proceeded to dismiss with "If you tighten the headset more to stop the rocking the wheel wont turn".

I know fine well that this is incorrect, and another colleague seems to think it could be wrongly sized/amount of compression rings (I think that's what they're called, don't quote me on it) which might be causing looseness in the headset.

I'm still open to suggestions as to why it might still feel loose, and I shall continue to update as I progress.

jonny135

So it appears that inside my fork underneath the top cap there is actually an expansion plug which holds everything together. After removing the expansion plug and then cleaning, replacing ensuring it is straight and level it appears to have stopped the rocking. I shall give the bike a few rides over the next few days to see if it loosens off quickly over time, and if it does I shall replace this part.

More to follow...

burnthesheep

sungod wrote:

did you...
remove top cap
remove stem from steerer
make sure the steerer and clamping surfaces of the stem are free of grease
replace stem on steerer
replace top cap, put weight on frame to ensure lower bearing is seated, keeping weight on frame also put weight on stem to ensure upper bearing is seated
tighten top cap to preload, 2Nm should be plenty, it can be less
align and tighten stem

This is a common mistake, and this person's post is correct.

Many people put the stem on and tighten it and then tighten the cap. You preload and then tighten the stem. Sometimes people also mis-match their stem spacers on top of the stem when dropping the stem down so that pre-load isn't possible. The pre-load ends up doing nothing.

svetty

You can only set the preload if the top bearing cap is pressing onto the top bearing. If it is fouling on the top of the head-tube you won't get enough pressure exerted onto the bearing race/split ring. Try a thin shim (or two) under the top bearing cap to ensure this isn't the problem.

Frank Wilson

Halfords employees in "knowing nothing about cycles shock"

Garry H

You shouldn't buy a bike from Halfords unless you have at least a rudimentary knowledge of bicycle maintenance. Just take it to a proper bike shop and have them look at it.

sungod

jonny135 wrote:

With regards to yourself, Sungod, I followed your instructions and also got a colleague to try tightening the steerer insert that's in the fork with no avail. It appears to still have a slight amount of rocking motion which my colleague proceeded to dismiss with "If you tighten the headset more to stop the rocking the wheel wont turn".

I know fine well that this is incorrect, and another colleague seems to think it could be wrongly sized/amount of compression rings (I think that's what they're called, don't quote me on it) which might be causing looseness in the headset.

I'm still open to suggestions as to why it might still feel loose, and I shall continue to update as I progress.

there's always the chance the headset was assembled incorrectly, some of them have multiple bits to fit in the correct order...

darkhairedlord

Post a complaint of shoddy service to the Managing Director.

jonny135

Frank Wilson, your comment is useless and unnecessary. "take it somewhere else"? How else can I learn about problems & maintenance of my bike if I don't at least try to explore means of a solution?

In a further update, I had followed Sungod's instructions and the bike felt whole again with no real shaking. So, I took it a cycle and after around 20miles the headset was loose feeling again where I could feel vibrations on the front end. There is an expansion plug in the fork which the top cap screws into & it doesn't sit flush in the fork at all (which my colleague believes causes the rattling). I removed and cleaned it and it still is shaking, if anybody has any suggestions as to why that might be, please let me know.

My colleague believes replacing the expansion plug with something more versatile will stop my ever loosening headset. I shall explore this route in future & update further.

jonny135

darkhairedlord wrote:

Post a complaint of shoddy service to the Managing Director.

D'you know, I'm actually going to do that. I feel horrible constantly burdening my colleagues with my seemingly unfixable problem and I want something or somebody to blame and it appears that posting a complaint into the company could definitely help place blame somewhere... at least for some form of compensation.

darkhairedlord

jonny135 wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

Post a complaint of shoddy service to the Managing Director.

D'you know, I'm actually going to do that. I feel horrible constantly burdening my colleagues with my seemingly unfixable problem and I want something or somebody to blame and it appears that posting a complaint into the company could definitely help place blame somewhere... at least for some form of compensation.

The problem is you work in a bike shop where no one knows anything about bikes. Perhaps the manager should be sending them to college on day release...

Garry H

The other problem is you work in retail and you have no idea about the consumer rights act. You're not exactly filling people with confidence in regards to Halfords' customer servicing abilities...

mouth

darkhairedlord wrote:

jonny135 wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

Post a complaint of shoddy service to the Managing Director.

D'you know, I'm actually going to do that. I feel horrible constantly burdening my colleagues with my seemingly unfixable problem and I want something or somebody to blame and it appears that posting a complaint into the company could definitely help place blame somewhere... at least for some form of compensation.

The problem is you work in a bike shop where no one knows anything about bikes. Perhaps the manager should be sending them to college on day release...

At this point I'd be asking for manufacturer support - even if it means losing my bike to them for a few days. The lack of willingness to pursue this through the company you bought it from makes me wonder how good that 'discount' really was. Working for the biggest bike retailer n the country and no one there can repair it? Where's the receipt gone for my Boardman?

mouth

Garry H wrote:

The other problem is you work in retail and you have no idea about the consumer rights act. You're not exactly filling people with confidence in regards to Halfords' customer servicing abilities...

Having worked in retail, it's up to the consumer to find out (and prove) their rights. He gonna beat himself (?) with his own stick.

Garry H

I reckon he nicked the bike, which is why he can't take it back and just say he's bought a pile of shite.

Moonbiker

Are you sure that the forks are fitted the right way round?

A fairly common error on halfords bikes :

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/halfo ... ork.75769/

Frank Wilson

jonny135 wrote:

Frank Wilson, your comment is useless and unnecessary. "take it somewhere else"? r.

I ain't said that mate, think you are misquoting me.