2017 Vitus Escarpe VRX

vrsmatt

Hi

I've been looking for a new MTB to replace my ageing Santa Cruz and have seen thet With a BCF discount I can get a Vitus Escarpe VRX for under £1850. It looks fantastic VFM and with a suspension layout very similar to the Giant Maestro it will ride similarly.

has anyone had any experience with an Escarpe or Sommet?

rockmonkeysc

The suspension is very different to giants and feels quite different. The shock is in a similar position but that's about the only similarity

mark_fogel

No idea about the Vitus however it was one of my options recently as I was after a new bike myself...
Take a look at Lapiere Zesty they are currently on offer on CRC with 30% off + further 10% with British Cycling discount its a bargain. I just got the 427 for £1700 and its epic, the 527 is £2078 with the discount same spec but has a carbon frame. Be careful with the sizes though as as 18 is a large, I suggest to look at the geometry chart on the Lapiere website.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/lapi ... prod148796
http://www.lapierre-bikes.co.uk/gamme/2 ... y-am-427-1

It pedals almost like an XC bike however when you point it down it ploughs through anything in its path. I had to change the tyres though as the Michelins are on the heavy side at 850grams and a bit draggy due to the soft compound.

rockmonkeysc

There's a reason why the zesty is heavily discounted. Lappierre have gone back to their old ways of making fragile frames. They started making them solid for a few years but went back to what they're best known for.

The Rookie

My Friends Zesty averages a new frame section every 12 months, 2 rears and a front triangle to date.

mark_fogel

I believe it's mostly the older carbon frames the alu should be alright either way there's 5 year warranty so I am alright with it.

vrsmatt

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The suspension is very different to giants and feels quite different. The shock is in a similar position but that's about the only similarity

Care to expand on how different and why?

As far as my 'bounce on the bike in the shop' test goes they felt similar, the shock positions/mountings are very similar in that they both float and are independent ( bottom shock mount onto chanstays not main frame ). My feelings are that with the same shock they'd feel very very similar

rockmonkeysc

It's a completely different linkage set up. The Giant system gives a more vertical / rearward axle path which helps maintain speed through rough ground. It's also a system which pedals incredibly well. The Vitus is more like just a standard 4 bar, very similar in design to older Kona's.
Bouncing on a bike in the shop will tell you absolutely nothing beyond whether or not it has rear suspension!

vrsmatt

RockmonkeySC wrote:

It's a completely different linkage set up. The Giant system gives a more vertical / rearward axle path which helps maintain speed through rough ground. It's also a system which pedals incredibly well. The Vitus is more like just a standard 4 bar, very similar in design to older Kona's.
Bouncing on a bike in the shop will tell you absolutely nothing beyond whether or not it has rear suspension!

Erm I think you haven't seen a 2017 bike then as the linkage is virtually identical except the trunion. The vitus has a fair amount of rearward travel also.

vrsmatt

To update, I have taken delivery and ridden the bike a little. Its an excellent machine. The paint seems a little fragile but that's it. The fully floating rear end is very reminiscent of a giant maestro set up and it pedals incredibly well.

A choice set of rims and a better dropper post away from being a very very very good bike.

Recommended

The Rookie

VRSMatt wrote:

Erm I think you haven't seen a 2017 bike then as the linkage is virtually identical except the trunion. The vitus has a fair amount of rearward travel also.

Erm, I think you are talking out your 'arris as its clearly nothing like. the Maestro suspension use a rigid rear triangle with top and bottom links, the VXR is still a 4-bar but with a higher and more forward mounted main pivot.

vrsmatt

The Rookie wrote:

VRSMatt wrote:

Erm I think you haven't seen a 2017 bike then as the linkage is virtually identical except the trunion. The vitus has a fair amount of rearward travel also.

Erm, I think you are talking out your 'arris as its clearly nothing like. the Maestro suspension use a rigid rear triangle with top and bottom links, the VXR is still a 4-bar but with a higher and more forward mounted main pivot.

The only real difference is a horst link on the vrx is the other end of the chainstay to the maestro's secondary chanistay linkage, both result in a similar 'virtual pivot point' and both allow independance of braking forces, there is a slight variance in pivot location. Both are fully floating with the bottom shock pivot locating on the bottom of the swingarm/main pivot. VERY similar to ride as both have an upwards and rear axle path. I've tested both and now own one. Thanks

The Rookie

Actually the Maestro is DW link (or at least very close to, the court case ended in a silent settlement).

vrsmatt

The Rookie wrote:

Actually the Maestro is DW link (or at least very close to, the court case ended in a silent settlement).

As above yes. but apart from which end of the chainstay that secondary pivot is ( both serving the same purpose ) then the systems are very similar, both with a slight falling rate at the beginning of the stroke, both with an element of rearward axle travel, both floating and both with a virtual pivot point.

As I said, your statement that its 'completely different' and 'akin to an older Kona' is a joke at worse and misleading at best, they were just a standard 4 bar with the bottom shock pivot attached to the front triangle and not even a horst type link to keep braking independant but a faux link on the bottom of the seat stays, which from experience does not work nearly as well.

It seems your idea of 'completely' is very different to mine. Thanks for your input

The Rookie

Absolute tosh....the steeper angle created by the shorter links on the DW rear makes the initial axle path much more rearwards that the on the VRX, it's nothing like at all similar.

vrsmatt

The Rookie wrote:

Absolute tosh....the steeper angle created by the shorter links on the DW rear makes the initial axle path much more rearwards that the on the VRX, it's nothing like at all similar.

VRX has 55mm of rearward travel....

rockmonkeysc

VRSMatt wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

Absolute tosh....the steeper angle created by the shorter links on the DW rear makes the initial axle path much more rearwards that the on the VRX, it's nothing like at all similar.

VRX has 55mm of rearward travel....

Are you sure? It must have an elastic chain to achieve over 2 inches of rear axle path.

The Rookie

There is no point continuing a dialogue with the deaf RM, 4" of chain to accommodate (rear mech capacity needs to be 8 higher), 55mm is of course a fantasy.

rockmonkeysc

The Rookie wrote:

There is no point continuing a dialogue with the deaf RM, 4" of chain to accommodate (rear mech capacity needs to be 8 higher), 55mm is of course a fantasy.

That's unfair to deaf people. I once had a conversation with the late, great Lemmy. He understood Jack and coke perfectly well.

vrsmatt

http://vitusbikes.com/products/escarpe-vrx-2017/

You can happily go find the axle paths of most of the big name bikes on google if you wish also.

The Rookie

"55mm of travel with reward axle path" - that isn't 55mm of rearward travel path, its 55mm of vertical travel with rear travel path before it goes neutral (and then forward).

Simply common sense I think tells you the chainstay hasn't the right downward angle (between pivots) to achieve 55mm of rear travel path, you don't even need to have to be able to tell an DW link from a Horst link (or plain 4 bar) to be able to figure that out.

vrsmatt

As said, I can tell the difference, you don’t seem to uunderstand the effects in practice, or lack of them.

Also you claim Maestro has rearward axle movement....strange ....it doesn’t https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=giant ... 6NPH97UXxM:

It’s all very well having the theory up top, not much help if you can’t apply it.

As I said the Vitus rides very much like a Trance, doubt you’d tell the difference if you were blindfolded.

The Rookie

Funny, as you can see from that link and the pivot length that it does have a rearward axle path, any link going down and rear as it pivots up is going to move that rearward pivot backwards.

Thanks for admitting yor total f'up in the Vitus axle path by the way.....

rockmonkeysc

The rearward axle path on Giants is the reason why they're so good at just ploughing through rock gardens where other bikes tend to hang up and lose momentum.