Death by Furious cycling......

Alex99

Pross wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

I occasionally ride in central London but I'm not a 'native'. I'm always a bit shocked at the attitude of a few cyclists per journey and recognise the behavior described above. It seems like some cyclists have the mindset that they must not be impeded and any delay is an injustice. It's the same behavior that I despise in some motorists; a selfish sense of entitlement and lack of empathy.

Did you see that recent video where a cyclist got squeezed and glanced by a truck after moving up the left of him at lights? The driver, rightly, pointed out the error of his ways and mentioned the campaigns warning of the danger of such a manoeuvre. The cyclist (or the rent a mob cyclist who was recording it and said 'don't worry mate I've got him on camera') then came up with a brilliant argument of 'this is London, you should expect cyclists to do that'. The capital certainly attracts more than its fair share of arrogant morons!

I've not seen that particular one. London is a pressure test with too many that seem to be on a "team".

surrey_commuter

Alex99 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

I occasionally ride in central London but I'm not a 'native'. I'm always a bit shocked at the attitude of a few cyclists per journey and recognise the behavior described above. It seems like some cyclists have the mindset that they must not be impeded and any delay is an injustice. It's the same behavior that I despise in some motorists; a selfish sense of entitlement and lack of empathy.

Did you see that recent video where a cyclist got squeezed and glanced by a truck after moving up the left of him at lights? The driver, rightly, pointed out the error of his ways and mentioned the campaigns warning of the danger of such a manoeuvre. The cyclist (or the rent a mob cyclist who was recording it and said 'don't worry mate I've got him on camera') then came up with a brilliant argument of 'this is London, you should expect cyclists to do that'. The capital certainly attracts more than its fair share of arrogant morons!

I've not seen that particular one. London is a pressure test with too many that seem to be on a "team".

Either that or london has the same % of idiots but is ten times the size of any other UK City so has more idiots.

mamba80

Pross wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

I occasionally ride in central London but I'm not a 'native'. I'm always a bit shocked at the attitude of a few cyclists per journey and recognise the behavior described above. It seems like some cyclists have the mindset that they must not be impeded and any delay is an injustice. It's the same behavior that I despise in some motorists; a selfish sense of entitlement and lack of empathy.

Did you see that recent video where a cyclist got squeezed and glanced by a truck after moving up the left of him at lights? The driver, rightly, pointed out the error of his ways and mentioned the campaigns warning of the danger of such a manoeuvre. The cyclist (or the rent a mob cyclist who was recording it and said 'don't worry mate I've got him on camera') then came up with a brilliant argument of 'this is London, you should expect cyclists to do that'. The capital certainly attracts more than its fair share of arrogant morons!

yes i saw that one, but surely that lorry driver must have seen the cyclist but carried on regardless? or he should have seen him (unless on his phone or sat nav?) the rider was at one point a few meters in front of the lorry, but yes their argument "this is London" was ridiculous.... i guess at the weekends, these cyclists became car drivers and scare us all sh!tless :evil:

surrey_commuter

mamba80 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

I occasionally ride in central London but I'm not a 'native'. I'm always a bit shocked at the attitude of a few cyclists per journey and recognise the behavior described above. It seems like some cyclists have the mindset that they must not be impeded and any delay is an injustice. It's the same behavior that I despise in some motorists; a selfish sense of entitlement and lack of empathy.

Did you see that recent video where a cyclist got squeezed and glanced by a truck after moving up the left of him at lights? The driver, rightly, pointed out the error of his ways and mentioned the campaigns warning of the danger of such a manoeuvre. The cyclist (or the rent a mob cyclist who was recording it and said 'don't worry mate I've got him on camera') then came up with a brilliant argument of 'this is London, you should expect cyclists to do that'. The capital certainly attracts more than its fair share of arrogant morons!

yes i saw that one, but surely that lorry driver must have seen the cyclist but carried on regardless? or he should have seen him (unless on his phone or sat nav?) the rider was at one point a few meters in front of the lorry, but yes their argument "this is London" was ridiculous.... i guess at the weekends, these cyclists became car drivers and scare us all sh!tless :evil:

I once had cause to remonstrate with a lorry driver. I was surprised how far forwards I had to be before we could look at each other. It is more like a couple of car length that a couple of metres.

mamba80

Surrey Commuter wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

I occasionally ride in central London but I'm not a 'native'. I'm always a bit shocked at the attitude of a few cyclists per journey and recognise the behavior described above. It seems like some cyclists have the mindset that they must not be impeded and any delay is an injustice. It's the same behavior that I despise in some motorists; a selfish sense of entitlement and lack of empathy.

Did you see that recent video where a cyclist got squeezed and glanced by a truck after moving up the left of him at lights? The driver, rightly, pointed out the error of his ways and mentioned the campaigns warning of the danger of such a manoeuvre. The cyclist (or the rent a mob cyclist who was recording it and said 'don't worry mate I've got him on camera') then came up with a brilliant argument of 'this is London, you should expect cyclists to do that'. The capital certainly attracts more than its fair share of arrogant morons!

yes i saw that one, but surely that lorry driver must have seen the cyclist but carried on regardless? or he should have seen him (unless on his phone or sat nav?) the rider was at one point a few meters in front of the lorry, but yes their argument "this is London" was ridiculous.... i guess at the weekends, these cyclists became car drivers and scare us all sh!tless :evil:

I once had cause to remonstrate with a lorry driver. I was surprised how far forwards I had to be before we could look at each other. It is more like a couple of car length that a couple of metres.

these guys clearly have a death wish and should have not been in the left only lane but no one will convince me that larry driver shouldnt have known cyclists were to his left..... he carried on regardless, so either he was doing something else or he doesnt care.

tangled_metal

You should have seen that BBC programme on Brompton bikes being made earlier this year. One of the presenters did a segment on visibility from trucks. Most trucks on the road have appalling sightlines. A cyclist or pedestrian is really only visible at over a car length ahead of the truck. A few metres isn't enough. Blindspots are along the sides and quite wide out.

The issue is being addressed, there are trucks being brought to the market with increased sightlines, especially where they need it the most. It's going to be a long haul to get these vehicles replaced with such trucks with the improved sightlines. Until that has happened the cyclists and pedestrians need to look out for themselves. Part of that is making sure they only put themselves in a safe place when cycling. Left side of a truck, filtering up isn't good.

FishFish

Capt Slog wrote:

Okay. I know it's not going to go that way for us, (I think we are too big), but we're not popular with some people, and I hope nothing comes out of this.

I hope that it is going to go that way. Sort of. I hope that bikes do get bike lanes that are safe and away from cars and can get off the roads. Like Holland for example. Then bikes can be banned from roads where the bike path exists.

jgsi

I hope that bikes do get bike lanes that are safe and away from cars and can get off the roads. Like Holland for example.

That sort of joined up thinking is not the British way.
It aint going to happen - ever.
The latest cyclepath has been built in the very recent past here on a nice relief road that takes cars and lorries to the M6 - now a cyclepath on motorways, now that's an idea.

Lookyhere

Tangled Metal wrote:

You should have seen that BBC programme on Brompton bikes being made earlier this year. One of the presenters did a segment on visibility from trucks. Most trucks on the road have appalling sightlines. A cyclist or pedestrian is really only visible at over a car length ahead of the truck. A few metres isn't enough. Blindspots are along the sides and quite wide out.

The issue is being addressed, there are trucks being brought to the market with increased sightlines, especially where they need it the most. It's going to be a long haul to get these vehicles replaced with such trucks with the improved sightlines. Until that has happened the cyclists and pedestrians need to look out for themselves. Part of that is making sure they only put themselves in a safe place when cycling. Left side of a truck, filtering up isn't good.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/06/cyclist-a ... n-6759940/

There were cyclists in front of him by some margin, he also knew he had hit the cyclist, hence why he stopped, if he didnt know he was there, he would just have carried on, he saw him both ahead of him and in his mirror too, the noise in the cab means he would never had heard any impact.
i think he cut in slightly too tightly toward the curb and had "just" intended to scare him.

that said, the cyclists were crazy, they should have dropped in behind the lorry.

awavey

mamba80 wrote:

yes i saw that one, but surely that lorry driver must have seen the cyclist but carried on regardless? or he should have seen him (unless on his phone or sat nav?) the rider was at one point a few meters in front of the lorry, but yes their argument "this is London" was ridiculous.... i guess at the weekends, these cyclists became car drivers and scare us all sh!tless :evil:

well if Id been nudged by a lorry like that, Im not sure Id have been able to form any coherent well thought out points for some while afterwards, Id probably have been just been solely using anglo saxon 4 letter words alot.

whether or not Id have personally taken that route myself is another matter I kind of got the meaning of their point, as its something I note on the fortunately rare times Ive driven through central london and it does seem specific to London, Ive not encountered this in Manchester or Birmingham for instance.

But in London there are alot of cyclists sharing the roads & because the speed of the motorised traffic is generally low, and there are lots of traffic lights, junctions where you constantly stop/start, it means those cyclists will often catch up, overtake, retake, etc etc.

so you cannot assume at any point if youve stopped that when you move off in your vehicle again, that you havent got a cyclist next to you or sitting in your blindspot, even in a car with good all round visibility, you know you can probably expect someone to be hanging on the left corner of your boot. So you cant just head for a racing line and clip the apex of a turn in your truck even if you are in the correct lane and pretend there arent going to be cyclists there, because "this is London" there probably always will be someone there, and whatever space you move your vehicle when driving around in London, you have to be clear, that its clear and not just go for it.

alot of it seems to be borne from the frustration of stop/start, so when people get the chance to move, they treat it like a GP start,and try and move as quickly as they can, whilst not noticing that ultimately they just hit the next stop a few seconds earlier, that truck lost everything and more theyd hoped to gain by trying to go that little bit quicker to get away, and they could easily have crushed someone to death in the process.

Pross

The truck driver in that incident was going straight ahead though. He didn't make any manoeuvre, the cyclist had gone up the left turn lane and on reaching the other side of the junction there simply wasn't space for him. I'm not convinced the driver could see him, even on the new style cabs you can't see things close alongside or just in front and I don't think that particular cyclist ever got properly in front. Others did and the driver had probably seen a cluster of bikes in his mirror and thought they'd either got in front or turned left. If you are going to be stupid enough to go down the left in that situation then surely you would back off when you realise you're going to get squeezed? In most bike v vehicle collisions I believe the vehicle is at fault but in that particular case it was the cyclist and half a dozen of them could have ended up crushed.

pblakeney

awavey wrote:

so you cannot assume at any point if youve stopped that when you move off in your vehicle again, that you havent got a cyclist next to you or sitting in your blindspot, even in a car with good all round visibility, you know you can probably expect someone to be hanging on the left corner of your boot. So you cant just head for a racing line and clip the apex of a turn in your truck even if you are in the correct lane and pretend there arent going to be cyclists there, because "this is London" there probably always will be someone there, and whatever space you move your vehicle when driving around in London, you have to be clear, that its clear and not just go for it.

Point being that you can. It was the lorry's lane. The cyclists should have been in front, behind, or in another lane going in another direction. That cyclist has zero defence.

ademort

I,ve also kept an eye on this case from day 1. One thing that does bother me is this young man has crashed into a Mother of two children who subsequently later died of her injuries and it does not seem to interest this young Man at all. He does come across as arrogant, and the fact that he turned to social media to blame the deceased woman for the crash did not win him any friends either. However you cant be prosecuted for that.
One thing that does stand out for me and for any other cyclist is this. According to the defendant he said he shouted twice at the woman and tried to swerve to avoid her, however he also said when questioned that even if he had brakes he would not have had time to pull them. Well, as all of us know if you have time to shout twice at somebody you certainly have time to use your brakes if you have them. If this bike had been fitted with a brake it would certainly have reduced the collision speed and therefore increased the chances of survival of the woman . The charge of wanton or furious cycling i find rediculous, but thats the law. I personally hope this young man is sent to jail he deserves it.

trivial_poursuivant

Not sure if it's coincidence but I've noticed a lot of track/fixie bikes for sale on eBay and Facebook this last few days