Want to try this next year, even cat 5 seems crazy fast to me
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Ryan_W wrote:Lookyhere wrote:Ryan_W wrote:I got beat by a girl at my first race at Hillingdon. She was about 5ft, 45kg yet did an amazing job of blocking me in and holding me up on the final sprint. So a 1,700w sprint effort never happened and she rolled in in front of me.
I did feel bad screaming at her to move, but why would she. She beat me at the positioning game.
Chapeau to her. It's all good fun.
Big of you, prob a 1st year junior girl, aged 16.
a 1700w sprint effort... yeah of course.
Who's this numpty?
She was a grown woman and I congratulated her on her tactics.
And yes, I do have a 1,700w sprint. Why is that so hard to believe? Some of us can actually ride on this forum.
I can believe it, I max out around the 1650w mark, won me my 2nd JCA Vets Circuit Race champs earlier this month in a sprint finish.
Amateurs can get close to the watts of a pro in a sprint I believe, the difference is the likes of Griepel etc are doing it after 150km in the saddle at 40kmph plus, most amateurs wouldn't make the finish to contest the sprint.
OP - Road and crit racing is more than just power output, as others have said its more about positioning and the ability to read a race and not getting caught out an dropped. I've had some decent results off the back of a low level of fitness because I know where to place myself in a race to conserve energy, the other skill is to only use energy when you really need to. Of course learning race craft only comes by racing and getting dropped and learning from your mistakes. As others have said, get out there and enjoy it, get dropped, analyse what went wrong and learn from it, after a while you will start to get the hang of it.Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!0 -
Peak of a sprint, rapidly diminishing to around a 1,200w average for 20 seconds.0
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Ryan_W wrote:Peak of a sprint, rapidly diminishing to around a 1,200w average for 20 seconds.
That's much more than i can hold and for longer, I can accelerate quickly and hold speed for 150m then die off quickly, think i drop to closer to 1050w then fall over, my excuse is Im old.Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!0 -
All sounds a lot to me - I only sprint up the hill by Barnes railway station at 800W. Impressive stuff.0
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Ryan_W wrote:Lookyhere wrote:Ryan_W wrote:I got beat by a girl at my first race at Hillingdon. She was about 5ft, 45kg yet did an amazing job of blocking me in and holding me up on the final sprint. So a 1,700w sprint effort never happened and she rolled in in front of me.
I did feel bad screaming at her to move, but why would she. She beat me at the positioning game.
Chapeau to her. It's all good fun.
Big of you, prob a 1st year junior girl, aged 16.
a 1700w sprint effort... yeah of course.
Who's this numpty?
She was a grown woman and I congratulated her on her tactics.
And yes, I do have a 1,700w sprint. Why is that so hard to believe? Some of us can actually ride on this forum.
....and i hope apologised too?
So, you get baulked to the line by a 45kg female in a crit, who isnt being lapped and was in front of you due to rider skill and better race craft? and in a crit, could be argued, better fitness?
If you ve a 1700w sprint effort at the end of an hours racing, then you should be at the very least in the points and way in front of any women who will be riding against the men for training.0 -
To throw my $0.02 in on the sprint comment above from the guy.......
Can we see a segment or attempt with powermeter data?
Even if it is true, I don't care, that'd be cool to see. I don't follow anyone on Strava that's put out 1700w.....ever, much less for any longer than a billionth of a second.
For it to count I thought sprints are peak and fade with an average over 20 seconds. So maybe 1700 is for 5 seconds and the actual sprint is 1200w for 20 seconds.
This also was shown well in a recent GCN show video. They got into the actual wattages and times spent leading out and sprinting at those power levels.
This is the only one I've done in the last few months.....trying to beat a stoplight.
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Lookyhere wrote:
....and i hope apologised too?
So, you get baulked to the line by a 45kg female in a crit, who isnt being lapped and was in front of you due to rider skill and better race craft? and in a crit, could be argued, better fitness?
If you ve a 1700w sprint effort at the end of an hours racing, then you should be at the very least in the points and way in front of any women who will be riding against the men for training.
Of course I apologised, I'm not rude. She laughed and jested with me, it was all in good spirit.
I have no shame in saying she had a better game plan than me. It was my first ever race and first time on that circuit.
The race was a piece of p!ss and a just sat mid pack for the majority. Led out for the final few laps and then sat back awaiting a sprint. Went wide on the final bend and got pushed out to the side and blocked in.
Fitness and power never came into play.
All a good learning curve. I still finished 10/35 and got a laughable single point.0 -
burnthesheep wrote:To throw my $0.02 in on the sprint comment above from the guy.......
Can we see a segment or attempt with powermeter data? Even if it is true, I don't care, that'd be cool to see. I don't follow anyone on Strava that's put out 1700w.....ever, much less for any longer than a billionth of a second.
For it to count I thought sprints are peak and fade with an average over 20 seconds. So maybe 1700 is for 5 seconds and the actual sprint is 1200w for 20 seconds.
This also was shown well in a recent GCN show video. They got into the actual wattages and times spent leading out and sprinting at those power levels.
This is the only one I've done in the last few months.....trying to beat a stoplight.
I haven't tried any max efforts since before Feb (had a bad accident first week of Fed and was in a leg brace for 4 weeks).
The greyed out S-curve is my 'best effort' curve, the dark purple curve was just from a short ride I did the other morning (rehab on the ankle).
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Ryan_W wrote:I haven't tried any max efforts since before Feb (had a bad accident first week of Fed and was in a leg brace for 4 weeks).
The greyed out S-curve is my 'best effort' curve, the dark purple curve was just from a short ride I did the other morning (rehab on the ankle).
Kill it! Love the powermeter average for the whole ride more than the sprint! I could only imagine doing that.0 -
burnthesheep wrote:Ryan_W wrote:I haven't tried any max efforts since before Feb (had a bad accident first week of Fed and was in a leg brace for 4 weeks).
The greyed out S-curve is my 'best effort' curve, the dark purple curve was just from a short ride I did the other morning (rehab on the ankle).
Kill it! Love the powermeter average for the whole ride more than the sprint! I could only imagine doing that.
Bear in mind I did a very similar ride the other day in about the same time (56 minutes for 3 laps) at weighted average of 245W - I think a similar W/kg. Don't know what size you are, but it makes a difference.0 -
KingstonGraham wrote:burnthesheep wrote:Ryan_W wrote:I haven't tried any max efforts since before Feb (had a bad accident first week of Fed and was in a leg brace for 4 weeks).
The greyed out S-curve is my 'best effort' curve, the dark purple curve was just from a short ride I did the other morning (rehab on the ankle).
Kill it! Love the powermeter average for the whole ride more than the sprint! I could only imagine doing that.
Bear in mind I did a very similar ride the other day in about the same time (56 minutes for 3 laps) at weighted average of 245W - I think a similar W/kg. Don't know what size you are, but it makes a difference.
I'm currently around 88/89kg, however, I was purposely riding in a very un-aero position: 57:03 @ 302w.
I've done a solo 3 lapper (aero position on a road bike) in 54:08 @ 301w. I should be pushing out over 340w for that duration if going by my FTP, but it's a funny one / I'm preserving myself like a fanny.0 -
Sawyer's Sprint, Ryan, 89kg, 1.05, 477W. Me 80kg, 1.09, 323W. The minimum conclusion is that conclusions are futile.
The OP should just do it.
Paul0 -
paul2718 wrote:Sawyer's Sprint, Ryan, 89kg, 1.05, 477W. Me 80kg, 1.09, 323W. The minimum conclusion is that conclusions are futile.
The OP should just do it.
Paul
0:51 @ 483w actually...
0:58 @ 570w - Goes to show what a headwind can do :shock:
Anyway, enough stats, just enter and enjoy the experience!0 -
Tour de Richmond Park (ACW Lap):
Ryan W: 18:04 - 346w
Tom W: 15:58 - 282wBlog on first season road racing http://www.twhatley.com/0 -
whatleytom wrote:Tour de Richmond Park (ACW Lap):
Ryan W: 18:04 - 346w
Tom W: 15:58 - 282w
Cheating on a TT bike...0 -
My point exactly. Useless looking at Strava for comparisonBlog on first season road racing http://www.twhatley.com/0
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Ryan_W wrote:whatleytom wrote:Tour de Richmond Park (ACW Lap):
Ryan W: 18:04 - 346w
Tom W: 15:58 - 282w
Cheating on a TT bike...
People also forget to pay attention to if a rider has a power meter or not. Strava "estimated" watts are total crap.
If you put in some bogus body weight and bike weight then lose weight over two years it's going to look like you're some wattage monster.
300w is about 25mph and is about dead-on for folks in that range of that leaderboard. The 346w for 18min is either a windy day OR it's some larger rider using the fake Strava watts.
282w on a TT bike with decent kit is WELL over 25mph. Approaching 27mph.0 -
burnthesheep wrote:Ryan_W wrote:whatleytom wrote:Tour de Richmond Park (ACW Lap):
Ryan W: 18:04 - 346w
Tom W: 15:58 - 282w
Cheating on a TT bike...
People also forget to pay attention to if a rider has a power meter or not. Strava "estimated" watts are total crap.
If you put in some bogus body weight and bike weight then lose weight over two years it's going to look like you're some wattage monster.
300w is about 25mph and is about dead-on for folks in that range of that leaderboard. The 346w for 18min is either a windy day OR it's some larger rider using the fake Strava watts.
282w on a TT bike with decent kit is WELL over 25mph. Approaching 27mph.
It wasn't too windy, I was just riding very un-aerodynamically... Being a broad 88/89kg doesn't help.
The power is real though
Here is a slightly more 'aero' lap of 17:32 @ 336w
https://www.strava.com/activities/10825 ... 66397757130 -
And the times recorded on the same day.
Worth mentioning Ryan, not much point in practicing being un-aero. Imo efforts should really be done in race position, otherwise if you actually do start racing its going to be a bit of shock.Blog on first season road racing http://www.twhatley.com/0 -
whatleytom wrote:And the times recorded on the same day.
Worth mentioning Ryan, not much point in practicing being un-aero. Imo efforts should really be done in race position, otherwise if you actually do start racing its going to be a bit of shock.
It wasn't a flat out effort mate, was just seeing how hard I could push my ankle.
But yes I agree, all serious efforts should be done as in race / aero position. Going for a sub 17 soon :oops:0 -
This recent diversion in the thread does highlight that my strategy will have to play a lot since it is a flat course. Larger/stronger riders do better on flat courses (cough, sprinters, cough).
I'll still try now, either way, but I may need to group ride on a ride I know I'll get dropped from and just try to play the field to see how long I can hang on by my fingernails.
FWIW 90min rides are getting into the 200's for NP now. 210 and 215 last week. An hour ride and a 90min ride. The race is 90 min.0 -
Your NP will be about 150w if sitting in a pack. You'll only exert any effort if it's a sprint finish or you try to break away (don't do this!)....0
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Your overthinking this burnthesheep.
You could just join a chain gang or fast training ride and see how you fair. Either way forget numbers and just try a race or two.
My first race, blown out the back within half a lap
Second race, finished in bunch and had a couple of lame attacks off the front, I then had the confidence I could get round and never looked back. First Cat within 2 seasons.
If that fails go back to the drawing board and learn how to train.0 -
burnthesheep wrote:Fair enough.
I agree 300w for 20 min may be unremarkable to many folks. But, in the context of Cat 5 it seems way way more than I had thought it would be for a 20min test. On that magical ftp chart floating on the internet that groups into race categories, 300w is more into a solid 3 than a Cat 5.
I've gone from 160w a year ago to about 230w today at 20min. I can interval workout at 270 to 300 on 3x3's like I said above. I just can't see getting to 250w by May being enough without a LOT of strategy and skill in the pack.
It seems trying one of the racing simulation group rides locally would be a good bet. They "race" and have a much higher class rider coach what they see in the bunch along the way.
It’s not the power you can sustain for an hour that dictates your success or failure in road racing, it’s the ability to recover from repeated anaerobic efforts, bike handling, tactics, resistance to the mental stress and your sprint.0 -
Lol........we're digging up an old topic here. This one was well off the front page.
It's too late now. I'm signed up for races this year including an ITT series and have been through one full training plan and am back on one now that should coincide with making my March 4th race an "a-priority" race. Ha ha, a-priority. Then a little time before starting the time trial series.
Probably only two or three road races this year, then the 6 race time trial series. Should be enough to get my feet wet and humble me a little bit. I have kids and cannot travel all over, so must pick races near me.
I may try some gravel and CX in the fall if I pickup a CX bike for my birthday this year. I'll lose, but I want to try as it looks really fun.0
