My back is wrecked..next bike

sextoke1

Hi All, Just turned 50, not bad as my back has been troublesome from age 20. I have 2015 Focus Cyo 2.0. I would like to keep it for another two years. I went out two weeks ago and did a 200km cycle, 1600 mtrs at 28.2km/h. not bad. Normally I do a 100 and have done some 130 and one 150 km this year. The following day my back was wrecked and an visit to an Osteopath and Phyiso has me nearly right. Because of a bit of wear and tear on my lower back, my long therm bike maybe a Trek Domane with the ISO front and back units and 28C tyres. In the meantime, I am wondering if I should upgrade my tyres to 28C. My wheels are Fulcrum Quattro LG CX.My brakes are Shimano 6800 are they might take the 28C tyres but they look tight like the forks and the seatstays in the back. Would changing the steel bars to carbon offer some help, what about bar tape or gel strips?. My saddle is a Stella Italia SLR max fow with a open slot. Seems fine and my site bones are the right size. My roads in Co. Cork in Ireland are not the best, but I am stuck with them like my body..

cycleclinic

Are you sure it is not your position thats the problem.

devonboy

I have had an inflammatory back condition since my mid 20's.Attempting to ride in a "racing bike" position rapidly immobilizes me with extreme back pain and eventually has me off to the chiropractor.

I have found that a relaxed endurance position coupled with a high front end allows me to cope with my problem.I have a Roubaix and a Diverge set up so the saddle and handlebars are level.I rarely get down on the drops and then only for a short time when battling with a head wind.

Beware bike fit experts,they are rarely also medical experts.In my case I have been told to remove spacers and use a longer stem with more drop,a position which would stop my cycling sooner rather than later.

ugo.santalucia

I think you have to come to the realisation that you are 20 years too old for a Focus Cayo... get something with a MUCH more relaxed riding position, ideally get a decent fit and don't shorten the front steerer until you are happy with your position.

johngti

I have a proper stiff neck, pain kicks in after 25-50 miles depending on how awkwardly I slept the night before. For years I had my bike set up with maximum spacers and stem angled up. After a bike fit, the stem was angled downwards and saddle raised and immediately the pain was reduced due to my shoulders having to relax more in order to reach the bars.

Fast forward 10 months. Not enough riding done due to working on a MA and starting a demanding new job that I can walk to and I flipped the stem again thinking my lack of riding would have had a negative impact . Instant problems all the way through to ride London. The pictures show me with my neck basically disappearing into my shoulders. So the stem is now back to the "proper " angle and it's more comfortable again.

What I'm trying to say is that a proper bike fit can have a massive impact and the results can be completely counterintuitive. Well worth going for.

Having said that, the one thing I bought that has made a difference is a shockstop stem. Wonderful thing that is! Makes me lust after the Trek...

StillGoing

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I think you have to come to the realisation that you are 20 years too old for a Focus Cayo... get something with a MUCH more relaxed riding position, ideally get a decent fit and don't shorten the front steerer until you are happy with your position.

That's not true Ugo. I'm 56 riding a Reacto with a fully slammed stem with without issue. Set up is all important.

ugo.santalucia

philthy3 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I think you have to come to the realisation that you are 20 years too old for a Focus Cayo... get something with a MUCH more relaxed riding position, ideally get a decent fit and don't shorten the front steerer until you are happy with your position.

That's not true Ugo. I'm 56 riding a Reacto with a fully slammed stem with without issue. Set up is all important.

Clearly the OP is not as flexible as you

ayjaycee

I'll leave the other stuff to the bike fit experts but on the wider tyres question, do you have a mate that uses 28s and who would let you try his for size? I say that because I use Fulcrum Racing 5LGs with Ultegra 6800 brakes on my Synapse and 28s will not fit in 'normal' use. Even if you undo the cable completely (rather then use the QR) to get the tyre past the brake blocks, there still might not be enough room - and remember than not all 28s are the same size and shape. In any event, that would still be a right pain when you have to repair a puncture in the cold, wet and dark.

If you don't mind spending some extra money, your solution might be as simple as fitting some 105 5800 brakes. They will take 28s and IMHO are not a million miles from the 6800. Also, I seem to recall reading that the new Ultegras 8000 brakes will take28s but they are relatively expensive.

ugo.santalucia

ayjaycee wrote:

If you don't mind spending some extra money, your solution might be as simple as fitting some 105 5800 brakes. They will take 28s and IMHO are not a million miles from the 6800. Also, I seem to recall reading that the new Ultegras 8000 brakes will take28s but they are relatively expensive.

yep, both true

cycleclinic

The most important thing with a fit is saddle height and saddle fore and aft. Get that right if it is not already. the ammount of reach is more an arc and one extreme will be the race position the other will be more upright position. you will know by experience now what back angle you can tollerate so working the rest out if pretty simple.

I have various people in for fits most are getting issues when in a more upright position because there shoulders get pushed up or back out of there back, or there back is hunched, hands in a funny position. Non of it is counter intuative though. the rule of thumb if your are comfortable and able to ride with pain your position is probably a good one. If pain occurs then there is probably a position issue. This can cause back pain, neck pain so your pain OP maybe related to your position. Getting fitted to a race position though is not always right for the rider. If they are not racing then why. The goal should be comfort. That is not always an upright position though.

old muscle injuries though do complicate matters but in you case if you cant use the drop why not use different bars which give you more position options to relieve load on your back with bar end shifters. Something like very short drop moustache bars like the Nitto RM016.

The problem is as none of us have seen you given concrete advise is diffcult but your postioon cant be right for you. something about it need to change. larger tyres wont hurt reducing road buzz never hurt anyone.

earthvspace4XTuUWcX

As others have said, your position is more important than whether or not you can fit 28 mm tyres. But also why not simply cycle shorter distances. Most people would feel wrecked after cycling 200 km, I enjoy doing 30 or 40 km rides and not paying 'the price' the next day.

sextoke1

I can get down on the drops for down hill and windy conditions, maybe for a couple of minutes at a time ( very max of around 5 minutes). My last bike fit was two years ago, and the guy took good time on my shape and flexibility. On the age, I still have my own hair, no colouring and my own teeth. Any ideas on carbon handlebars and a direction on saddles.

johngti

sextoke1 wrote:

I can get down on the drops for down hill and windy conditions, maybe for a couple of minutes at a time ( very max of around 5 minutes). My last bike fit was two years ago, and the guy took good time on my shape and flexibility. On the age, I still have my own hair, no colouring and my own teeth. Any ideas on carbon handlebars and a direction on saddles.

Look into the shock stop stem. I've noticed a massive improvement in terms of cutting road buzz. Better for me than the times I've tried gel strips/double wrapping. Not tried carbon bars though

johngti

https://kitradar.com/products/redshift- ... kstop-stem

sextoke1

Looks like an option, is it OK on a carbon post on the forks, how long have you had it on your bike?

johngti

Got it on my defy so seems fine with a carbon steerer. I've had it for about 4 months and it's a big improvement. North Kent lanes are pretty awful and I can tell the difference. Really don't notice it other than the reduced road noise.

molteni_man

Re the 28mm tyres on the Cayo. I don't think these will fit either. I've got a 2014 Cayo and run 25mm Conti 4000s on both rear and front but only just. I like the feel compared to the previous 23mms but there is only just enough clearance particularly on the rear.
Re back comfort I had a Specialized Secteur some time ago and I could stay on the drops all day it was that high on the front. The Roubaix is a similar frame. I love my Cayo- a really great responsive ride and for me ( luckily) I have no issues with comfort and use the drops plenty.

neeb

sextoke1 wrote:

I went out two weeks ago and did a 200km cycle, 1600 mtrs at 28.2km/h. not bad. Normally I do a 100 and have done some 130 and one 150 km this year.

When you say that you "normally" do 100km and you've done "some" 130km rides do you mean that all of your rides are at least that long but you don't get out very often? Obviously if you were only cycling once every week or two and always doing 100km+ then you'd be periodically putting a lot of stress on your body without doing regular enough work to build up the capacity for it.

But I'd also concur with others on the bike fit!

sextoke1

My Cayo came with Fulcrum 6.5 17c wheels with 25c tyres on it. Just checked my Garmin. This year so far I have done 4,803km in 74 activities. The average ride length is 2hours 30 minutes.

kingrollo

Really would recommend yoga and a pro bike fit.

The yoga is the dullest hour of my week - but my injuries have reduced significantly since i have been doing it

sextoke1

kingrollo wrote:

Really would recommend yoga and a pro bike fit.

The yoga is the dullest hour of my week - but my injuries have reduced significantly since i have been doing it

You might be correct. I did pilates a few years ago, tough going. Is the yoga easier? I do a little pilates a few evenings during the week and some stretches....Update, I went to the Osetapath and he freed me out, but still a bit sore and stiff. Went for a bit of Phyiso and she worked on my glute muscles and glently on my spine, could fee better and another visit tomorrow should have me back to normal. Next step is a programme to keep me pain free.

bsharp77

I don't know what your budget is like, but I would strongly advise you to go and try a Domane out for yourself.
I was struggling badly with lower back pain on any rides longer than 1 hour on a multitude of bikes - Focus Izalco, Cayo, Cervelo R3, Boardman SLS, BMC GF - you name it, I had it at some point!

I moved to a Trek Domane as a last resort - there are no words to describe the difference in comfort - at no cost to my speed whatsoever, if anything I'm faster as I'm fresher for longer.
I agree bike fit is important, and Focus tend to be very aggressive, stiff bikes. Theres some magic working deep in the Domane that just takes out any stress from your back - its not solely geometry, the ISO system is fantastic (I have the stem slammed now, so even considering a H1 frame next time I upgrade).

Its very hard to describe for anyone that hasn't thrown a leg over one - very different to any other bike I've ever tried, and just encourages you to keep pushing.
I had a 5 series which got stolen, and replaced it with a 6 series frameset and built it up with 105 and a set of Aeolus wheels - its the perfect all round bike for me.

Im not sure if you have any Trek dealers close to you in Cork, but if you do get a chance I recommend you give one a test ride to see what you think.

Hope this is of some help.

birdie23

Molteni Man wrote:

Re the 28mm tyres on the Cayo. I don't think these will fit either. I've got a 2014 Cayo and run 25mm Conti 4000s on both rear and front but only just. I like the feel compared to the previous 23mms but there is only just enough clearance particularly on the rear.

25mm GP4000s are more like 27mm in reality, so doesn't just depend on the size but also the brand of tyre.

johngti

bsharp77 wrote:

I don't know what your budget is like, but I would strongly advise you to go and try a Domane out for yourself.
I was struggling badly with lower back pain on any rides longer than 1 hour on a multitude of bikes - Focus Izalco, Cayo, Cervelo R3, Boardman SLS, BMC GF - you name it, I had it at some point!

I moved to a Trek Domane as a last resort - there are no words to describe the difference in comfort - at no cost to my speed whatsoever, if anything I'm faster as I'm fresher for longer.
I agree bike fit is important, and Focus tend to be very aggressive, stiff bikes. Theres some magic working deep in the Domane that just takes out any stress from your back - its not solely geometry, the ISO system is fantastic (I have the stem slammed now, so even considering a H1 frame next time I upgrade).

Its very hard to describe for anyone that hasn't thrown a leg over one - very different to any other bike I've ever tried, and just encourages you to keep pushing.
I had a 5 series which got stolen, and replaced it with a 6 series frameset and built it up with 105 and a set of Aeolus wheels - its the perfect all round bike for me.

Im not sure if you have any Trek dealers close to you in Cork, but if you do get a chance I recommend you give one a test ride to see what you think.

Hope this is of some help.

You're doing a great job of making me seriously consider chopping in my defy for a trek...

bsharp77

johngti wrote:

You're doing a great job of making me seriously consider chopping in my defy for a trek...

It certainly changed my enjoyment of riding forever, so if my experiences are of any benefit to anyone else, I'm happy to pass them on.
No two people are the same, but when it comes to comfort and speed, the Domane seems to be a universal solution.

johngti

bsharp77 wrote:

johngti wrote:

You're doing a great job of making me seriously consider chopping in my defy for a trek...

It certainly changed my enjoyment of riding forever, so if my experiences are of any benefit to anyone else, I'm happy to pass them on.
No two people are the same, but when it comes to comfort and speed, the Domane seems to be a universal solution.

I took the plunge. Got a used 5.2 off eBay, you were right, it’s a wonderful machine! As it’s a 5.2 it only has isospeed on the rear but whatever magic they’ve wrought with the forks doesn’t half give it a nice ride!

turbo1191

Can't rate the Domane highly enough. I too have back issues from a major car crash in my youth and have had several bikes. Never really felt 'comfortable' on any off them until i had the domane.. if you haven't tried one go and do so..