Carbon Clinchers - 40mm or 50mm? Advice Please

mikeyj28

Hi

A quick question from my mate who wants some advice.
He is after some carbon clinchers in the region of £850-1000.

The terrain he mostly rides is a bit lumpy-based in South Wales. Nothing too hilly but on occasion he will do a good/steep hill or mountain.
From your experiences with Carbon wheels, would you advise 40mm or 50mm? Will 50mm not be that ideal for the very hilly stuff? Other than aesthetics, is there a noticeable difference in 10mm? I don't own any carbon wheels so cannot give him decent advice.
He is 6ft0 and roughly 75kg.

Thanks

ugo.santalucia

Tell him not to bother with carbon clinchers in Wales.

Matthewfalle

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Tell him not to bother with carbon clinchers in Wales.

Why? Pretty pointless post with no reasoning.

We all know my answer to this question.

StillGoing

40mm but personally, I'd go Shimano Dura Ace C35s for that money. I've had 45mm and 38mm clinchers and 50mm tubular carbon wheels and they are a bit of a pain to me. Noisy braking, reduced braking in the wet and clinchers no good for long descents if you need to brake a lot. Side winds were bad other than with the 38mm front.

liamcahill1

I've used 50mm rims for racing for about 4 years now. They don't push me around too much in strong winds (63kg). Aero gains? Hard to quantify but in my head they work. And I like the look. Braking isn`t too bad, but certainly worse than alu.

For specific wheel recommendations, I'd point you towards Malcolm Borg. I reviewed his wheels for road.cc last year and they are brilliant for the money. I reviewed the alu tubs for CX, but he had these in the office to show us and they were nice and fat and very light. https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/road-rim-brake-wheelsets/products/borg50-carbon-clinchers-tubeless-ready-20f-24r-26-5mm-wide

Or Spin On These are making nice fat wheels, but not sure on the price.

Matthewfalle

Fat or phat?

mikeyj28

liamcahill1 wrote:

I've used 50mm rims for racing for about 4 years now. They don't push me around too much in strong winds (63kg). Aero gains? Hard to quantify but in my head they work. And I like the look. Braking isn`t too bad, but certainly worse than alu.

For specific wheel recommendations, I'd point you towards Malcolm Borg. I reviewed his wheels for road.cc last year and they are brilliant for the money. I reviewed the alu tubs for CX, but he had these in the office to show us and they were nice and fat and very light. https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/road-rim-brake-wheelsets/products/borg50-carbon-clinchers-tubeless-ready-20f-24r-26-5mm-wide

Or Spin On These are making nice fat wheels, but not sure on the price.

Thanks Liam. Ironically I have looked at!alcolm at the cycle clinic before. Would it be worth the extractor the titanium hub ? Or stick with theMiche?

I take it that the build quality is good. Is he as good/ better than Wheelsmith up in Scotland?

alanparsons

mikeyj28 wrote:

Hi

A quick question from my mate who wants some advice.
He is after some carbon clinchers in the region of £850-1000.

The terrain he mostly rides is a bit lumpy-based in South Wales. Nothing too hilly but on occasion he will do a good/steep hill or mountain.
From your experiences with Carbon wheels, would you advise 40mm or 50mm? Will 50mm not be that ideal for the very hilly stuff? Other than aesthetics, is there a noticeable difference in 10mm? I don't own any carbon wheels so cannot give him decent advice.
He is 6ft0 and roughly 75kg.

Thanks

If your mate goes for 50mm I have a lightly used (Norfolk less than 500 miles) pair of Token C50's for sale.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/token-c50-full-carbon-clincher-wheelset/

£650 including P&P. Or £700 with GP4000sII and conti race tubes.

Midlands Grimpeur

Build quality of both Malcolm's wheels and Derek up at Wheelsmith is excellent, your mate won't go wrong with either. The miche hubs will be more than good enough, you won't get a better set of hubs for the price IME.

liamcahill1

Midlands Grimpeur wrote:

Build quality of both Malcolm's wheels and Derek up at Wheelsmith is excellent, your mate won't go wrong with either. The miche hubs will be more than good enough, you won't get a better set of hubs for the price IME.

I'd second that. I ran the Miche through a horrendous UK CX season. They were brilliant. I guess the carbon/ti hubs are lighter but I've not used them.

Maybe get him to give Malcolm/Derek a ring. They'd be able to advise him better than us, based on his weight and riding about spokes and hubs

mikeyj28

liamcahill1 wrote:

Midlands Grimpeur wrote:

Build quality of both Malcolm's wheels and Derek up at Wheelsmith is excellent, your mate won't go wrong with either. The miche hubs will be more than good enough, you won't get a better set of hubs for the price IME.

I'd second that. I ran the Miche through a horrendous UK CX season. They were brilliant. I guess the carbon/ti hubs are lighter but I've not used them.

Maybe get him to give Malcolm/Derek a ring. They'd be able to advise him better than us, based on his weight and riding about spokes and hubs

Thank you both for your input.

I shall ask him to give Malcolm a bell tomorrow to talk through options. I even like the look of these too.

One last one - how do you find Fulcrum racing Quattro 40mm wheels? Are they any good for generic factory carbon wheels?

liamcahill1

A friend has them and he likes his. I've never been a fan of Fulcrums though. Seen too many failed freehubs.

jollygiant

I've used 50mm clinchers for 9,000 miles and couple them with Swiss Stop Black Prince pads and they are pretty good.
Even whilst coming down Welsh mountains whilst doing the Dragon ride in the wet at 50mph, people can hear you coming as they squeal nicely warning them to get out of the way!
As for crosswinds mine are 'U' section and they seem very stable but I'm 97kgs and 6ft 6.

ugo.santalucia

jollygiant wrote:

Even whilst coming down Welsh mountains whilst doing the Dragon ride in the wet at 50mph, people can hear you coming as they squeal nicely warning them to get out of the way!

Descents where you can go at 50 mph are not a problem, as clearly you do not need to brake frequently. The problematic ones are those where you need to go down at 15 or 20 mph to avoid a trip to A & E... for those I would not recommend carbon clinchers... I know quite a few in Wales...

In addition, most of Wales is rolling or hilly, terrain which mitigates any theoretical advantage of using deep rims, leaving you with a bag of drawbacks and a pair of allegedly good looking rims.

People buy these things to look like PROs ultimately... guess what, not even PROs use them anymore for rolling and hilly races (not that they ever used clinchers in the first place)

Total waste of money in this context

mugensi

I have 40mm Fulcrum Quattro Carbons and find them excellent in all conditions. I'm 75kg and 6ft and have no problems even in strong winds and braking with the red pads which come with the wheels is excellent even in the wet. In my opinion braking in the wet is on a par with Zondas and is actually better in the dry. I had originally kept the Zondas to use in wet weather but sold them after a few months as the Quattros were so good.

w00dster

Yeah I know where Ugo is coming from.
I ride in North Wales a lot, Snowdonia mainly. I use 40, 50 or shallow alloy rims depending on the weather. My 50mm rims are ok in the wet on certain rides, but I pick and choose what route I'm taking based on the weather. Hairpins with a 100 foot rocky descent and noisy grabby brakes doesn't do much to inspire confidence in bad weather, especially on narrow twisty roads with cars coming the opposite direction. The carbon clinchers do work, but it can be a bit nervous at times.
I recently went to disc brakes because of this...But that's a completely different topic.

On the plus side, 40mm on a non aero bike look awesome - for the majority of my rides were fine and braking was no issue. Not sure if there is much aero benefit - but the looks are what matters....

Calpol

mikeyj28 wrote:

liamcahill1 wrote:

Midlands Grimpeur wrote:

One last one - how do you find Fulcrum racing Quattro 40mm wheels? Are they any good for generic factory carbon wheels?

I've got a set of these on my best bike.
plusses = they look good, well made, excellent braking in dry and decent in wet, not noticed in crosswind disturbances, wider rim is on trend, relatively lightweight

minuses - no free speed at this depth really - or not so I have noticed. My mate has the Reynolds 58 Aero and they are definitely faster on the flat/rolling terrain and not noticeably heavier

They are a compromise wheel in some ways but I am happy with them. They are good value. Poor man's Bora's

mikeyj28

ugo.santalucia wrote:

jollygiant wrote:

Even whilst coming down Welsh mountains whilst doing the Dragon ride in the wet at 50mph, people can hear you coming as they squeal nicely warning them to get out of the way!

Descents where you can go at 50 mph are not a problem, as clearly you do not need to brake frequently. The problematic ones are those where you need to go down at 15 or 20 mph to avoid a trip to A & E... for those I would not recommend carbon clinchers... I know quite a few in Wales...

In addition, most of Wales is rolling or hilly, terrain which mitigates any theoretical advantage of using deep rims, leaving you with a bag of drawbacks and a pair of allegedly good looking rims.

People buy these things to look like PROs ultimately... guess what, not even PROs use them anymore for rolling and hilly races (not that they ever used clinchers in the first place)

Total waste of money in this context

Haha Ugo, you do make a good point.

Yes, there are quite a few hills that you can never go down at a decent rate. Always hovering over the brakes and slowing down to avoid an accident.

ugo.santalucia

mikeyj28 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

jollygiant wrote:

Even whilst coming down Welsh mountains whilst doing the Dragon ride in the wet at 50mph, people can hear you coming as they squeal nicely warning them to get out of the way!

Descents where you can go at 50 mph are not a problem, as clearly you do not need to brake frequently. The problematic ones are those where you need to go down at 15 or 20 mph to avoid a trip to A & E... for those I would not recommend carbon clinchers... I know quite a few in Wales...

In addition, most of Wales is rolling or hilly, terrain which mitigates any theoretical advantage of using deep rims, leaving you with a bag of drawbacks and a pair of allegedly good looking rims.

People buy these things to look like PROs ultimately... guess what, not even PROs use them anymore for rolling and hilly races (not that they ever used clinchers in the first place)

Total waste of money in this context

Haha Ugo, you do make a good point.

Yes, there are quite a few hills that you can never go down at a decent rate. Always hovering over the brakes and slowing down to avoid an accident.

Best not to bother then

cycleclinic

I am not to sure I would use my own carbon clinchers for a welsh ride. I dont know wales I have no idea what I will be coming down. The last ride I did in wales had some right dodgy decents nothing that would have cooked my carbon rims but there might be a few out there that would under the right parnoid braking conditions.


Given the aero effect works at all speeds as has been pointed many times before and while the time saved may not be huge on a ride, for a TT or race it adds up. 50mm deep carbon wheels are not meant for rolling around on a social ride. They of course can be used for that but they are really racing wheels for TT's , circuit race's and road races.

Next year I hope to do the welsh 12hr champs. There is a big hill on the course. I will be using my carbon clinchers, I wont be braking much. the wheels will make a difference. this is what they are for!