Fixie Rider charged with manslaughter after collision with pedestrian.

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Comments

  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,624
    BuckMulligan wrote:
    Is it reasonably safe to assume that we can expect a verdict today then?

    The judge won't let it go on forever.

    Sometimes a majority direction can cause a verdict to be reached quite quickly if only one or two have been holding out one way or the other.

    If they are split down the middle and haven't budged yet then it's unlikely they will be able to reach a decision. In that event it will be a hung jury and the CPS will then have to decide if they want to have a retrial (which they probably will in this case).
  • TheStone
    TheStone Posts: 2,291
    Is it just one charge? or a set of increasingly serious charges?
    exercise.png
  • niblue
    niblue Posts: 1,387
    Two charges I think
    - Manslaughter (unlawful act I think)
    - Wanton and Furious cycling

    The latter is lesser seriousness - max 2 years in jail
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Slowbike wrote:
    What was the point in locking up someone who has - from the outset - taken full responsibility for their actions, is willing to face the consequences, shows remorse for their behaviour and has probably shown that they have altered their behaviour for the better ?
    Would you apply this principle to all crimes? Burglary, rape, murder?
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    bompington wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    What was the point in locking up someone who has - from the outset - taken full responsibility for their actions, is willing to face the consequences, shows remorse for their behaviour and has probably shown that they have altered their behaviour for the better ?
    Would you apply this principle to all crimes? Burglary, rape, murder?

    I asked what the point was - the girl in question who was given a suspended sentence for riding her motorbike dangerously enough to cause death was in all probabilty not considering the danger she posed to others. I assume she managed to convince the Judge that she had/will modify her riding - or give up riding altogether - so that the public will no longer be at risk.

    In the UK - going to prision is primarily (supposed to be) there to protect the public and allow the staff time to rehabilitate offenders so they can live law-abiding and useful lives. The punishment side is subjective - as is repeatedly shown by offenders reoffending so they can return to prision and the regular structure which they crave.
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    From Twitter: Fixie cyclist is cleared of manslaughter but convicted of causing bodily harm
  • vpnikolov
    vpnikolov Posts: 568
    dodgy wrote:
    From Twitter: Fixie cyclist is cleared of manslaughter but convicted of causing bodily harm
    Wanton and furious cycling you mean.
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    vpnikolov wrote:
    dodgy wrote:
    From Twitter: Fixie cyclist is cleared of manslaughter but convicted of causing bodily harm
    Wanton and furious cycling you mean.
    That's not what the reports are saying
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    vpnikolov wrote:
    dodgy wrote:
    From Twitter: Fixie cyclist is cleared of manslaughter but convicted of causing bodily harm
    Wanton and furious cycling you mean.

    I meant what I typed (this time :lol: ). That's directly from @Courtnewsuk on Twitter.
  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,624
    http://road.cc/content/news/227982-lond ... strian-kim
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    It is. That's what section 35 of the Offences against the person act says. I'm surprised he defended that charge. Max 2 year sentence so will be interesting to see if given a prison sentence given his conduct.
    My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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  • mtb-idle
    mtb-idle Posts: 2,179
    I agree, is wanton and furious driving correct when he was riding not driving? (Yes, I know that's what it says on BBC site).

    Given that a lot of this hinges on what the legal understanding is there must be a definition of what driving is and I would be surprised if it included cycling in the description.
    FCN = 4
  • mattsaw
    mattsaw Posts: 907
    MTB-Idle wrote:
    I agree, is wanton and furious driving correct when he was riding not driving? (Yes, I know that's what it says on BBC site).

    Given that a lot of this hinges on what the legal understanding is there must be a definition of what driving is and I would be surprised if it included cycling in the description.

    Yes it's correct
    "Whosoever, having the charge of any carriage or vehicle, shall by wanton or furious driving or racing, or other wilful misconduct, or by wilful neglect, do or cause to be done any bodily harm to any person whatsoever, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and being convicted thereof shall be liable, at the discretion of the court, to be imprisoned for any term not exceeding two years ..."
    Bianchi C2C - Ritte Bosberg - Cervelo R3
    Strava
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,332
    "by wilful neglect, do or cause to be done any bodily harm to any person whatsoever"

    Sounds fair.
  • mtb-idle
    mtb-idle Posts: 2,179
    and the definition of a carriage or vehicle?
    FCN = 4
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    MTB-Idle wrote:
    and the definition of a carriage or vehicle?

    For the purpose of this charge it includes a bicycle. For the purpose of other legislation, it depends.

    Don't worry, if there had been a get out there it would have been the subject of legal argument before the case proceeded.
    My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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  • thistle_
    thistle_ Posts: 7,164
    MTB-Idle wrote:
    there must be a definition of what driving is
    Contolling a vehicle I think. Seems be from case law though and it's not actually defined anywhere https://www.justanswer.com/uk-law/2ikoq ... e-law.html
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    It's all about the carriage. So, since Taylor and Goodwin bikes have been carriages in law. That's not always the case, you have to check what legislation you're dealing with to see what vehicle is defined as. So, sometimes a vehicle is defined as being mechanically propelled.
    My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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  • wolfsbane2k
    wolfsbane2k Posts: 3,056
    Posted Without Comment

    from Martin Porter QC:

    https://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/2 ... trial.html
    Intent on Cycling Commuting on a budget, but keep on breaking/crashing/finding nice stuff to buy.
    Bike 1 (Broken) - Bike 2(Borked) - Bike 3(broken spokes) - Bike 4( Needs Work) - Bike 5 (in bits) - Bike 6* ...
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    And it is on the BBC main piece of news

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41028321

    I despair.
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
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  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Well - I can point you to my earlier post where I said that's what I thought should happen ... (based only on a couple of media reports and what had been said here) ... </smug mode>

    The slight downside for the rest of us is that it suggests that the already low bar used in driving "accidents" will continue - with judges offering to polish out the blemish of the offenders vehicle where he's crushed an entire peleton whilst driving using his mobile, 3 times the legal drink limit and 4 times the speed limit - providing it's a Range Rover of course ... </cynical mode>

    The Upside is that - once sentencing is passed - perhaps some of our cycling bretherin will be a little more mindful of their antics once they realise they be residing at Her Majesties Pleasure should they be found in a similar situation ... and we might all be able to use the roads together...
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    _97436009_bike.jpg

    FFS -Cycling UK can't spell brakes
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • rich_e
    rich_e Posts: 389
    Also pretty high up on The Daily Mail website as well, with the comments enabled this time, so bound to descend into the usual cyclist bashing.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ghter.html
  • niblue
    niblue Posts: 1,387
    Wolfsbane2k wrote:
    Posted Without Comment

    from Martin Porter QC:

    https://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/2 ... trial.html

    I read a few lines and gave up as it seems a pretty poor article dealing in generalisations which ignore the details of the case.

    Sounds like the jury did what they often do it "Causing death by dangerous driving" cases and downgraded it to the lesser offence. Usually I'd expect the lad to get a non custodial sentence but, as the judge has warned, his lack of remorse could be a factor in the sentencing.
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    I think Martin wanted something out there quite quickly. I don't think speed is good (sic) in writing up this case. Careful reflection is needed. I shall make a start.......
    My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Daily mail ...

    Remorseless Cyclist Mowed down .... they make it sound like he intended the accident ...
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    I thought Martin's blog post was excellent for the most part but each to their own.
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
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  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,332
    gabriel959 wrote:
    I thought Martin's blog post was excellent for the most part but each to their own.

    I agree with him that "our criminal justice system needs to recalibrate away from the prejudice that motoring is innocuous", but not with "and cycling dangerous". I don't think there are many prosecutions for dangerous cycling.

    This was an exceptional case - I wasn't in the court to hear all the evidence, but the verdicts do not seem outrageous.
  • niblue
    niblue Posts: 1,387
    The press coverage does seem pretty poor but it's not really a surprise - quite a few of them were leading with the "mowed down" even before the trial. It's interesting that none of them make the point that the primary reason for her death, no matter what the cyclist did, was choosing to cross the road when it wasn't safe to do so. Her family are also ignoring that with their stated intention to campaign for stronger cycling laws - even though if nothing else this case has already proved they aren't needed. The police could even choose to stop and prosecute any and every brakeless fixie riders under the existing danger or careless cycling laws if they wanted.

    I suspect the defence will appeal if there is a custodial sentence but not if there isn't one. Normally I'd expect a non custodial sentence but his lack of remorse could see him get a short stint inside.
  • Semantik
    Semantik Posts: 537
    So if he'd had a working front brake and said sorry would he have been acquitted of all charges?

    If not we are all now in trouble.

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