What determines when I should upgrade?

PeteK25

I'm trying to determine when I should upgrade from my beginner bike to a more advanced bike. I'm have been riding a Vilano Forza 4.0 for the last two years. I ride about 250 miles per week at an average of 20 mph mostly on flats. Have I pushed this bike as far as it will go? Thinking about upgrading to a bike with Shimano 105 system. How much speed can I expect to gain from upgrading? Specs listed below:

Current:
• Model: Vilano Forza 4.0
• Speeds: 24
• Frame: 6061 Double Butted Aluminum
• Fork: 700c Steel Racing 1 1/8" Threadless
• Shifters: Shimano Claris STI
• Front Derailleur: Shimano Claris 3-Speed
• Rear Derailleur: Shimano Claris 8 Speed
• Crankset: Alloy 170mm
• Stem: Forged Alloy 1 1/8" 100mm +-10°
• Bottom Bracket: Sealed
• Cassette: Shimano 8 Speed 12-25T
• Chain: KMC 8 Speed
• Rims: Weinmann 700c Doubled Walled CNC Machined Sides
• Tires: Michelin Pro 4 Endurance 700c x 23c
• Brakes: Alloy Caliper
• Handlebar: Alloy
• Seatpost: Alloy 27.2mm

New:
WEIGHT: 8.88 kg / 19.54 lbs
FRAME: Kestrel Enhanced Modulus Hybrid (EMH) 700K & 800K carbon fiber
FORK: EMH carbon, 1 1/8" - 1 1/4" tapered alloy steerer
WHEELSET: Oval Concepts 327, 700c 20/24H rims
TIRES: Vittoria Zaffiro Pro, 700 x 25c, folding
CRANKSET: Oval Concepts 500, forged 6066 arms, M30 spindle, forged Praxis 50/34T rings
BOTTOM BRACKET: Praxis M30 BSA Bottom Bracket, Cartridge Bearings
FRONT DERAILLEUR: Shimano 105, braze-on
REAR DERAILLEUR: Shimano 105, 11-speed
SHIFTERS: Shimano 105 STI, 11-speed
CASSETTE: SunRace, 11-28T, 11-speed
CHAIN: KMC X11, 11-speed
PEDALS: N/A
BRAKE LEVERS: Shimano 105 STI
HEADSET: FSA integrated, 1 1/8" top, 1 1/4" bottom w/ 15mm top cover
HANDLEBAR: Oval Concepts 310 Ergo, 6061 alloy, 31.8mm clamp, 133mm drop, 4° sweep
STEM: Oval Concepts 313, 3D-forged 6061 stem body, +/-7°
SADDLE: Oval Concepts 300, steel rail

svetty

Whether you 'need' another bike is a lesser consideration. What usually drives purchasing decisions is whether you 'want' another bike which is a whole other matter

Doing 250 miles a week at 20mph is pretty decent. An aero road frame with some mid-depth - say 50mm - wheels might enhance your performance, particularly as you mostly ride on flatter terrain - a newer groupset won't make a significant difference).

Getting a power meter and training with more specificity will make most difference to your performance.

ugo.santalucia

... you ride 250 miles per week at 20 mph and ride a bike bought on Amazon, sure you do...

PeteK25

Thanks Svetty! I do want another bike.

Ugo.Santalucia...that's what I do now. When I first got on the thing, I was only doing 10.9 mph. Took me over 1/2 a year to get up to 13 mph and I've slowly increased since finally reaching my current level. I get most of my mileage commuting to / from work (17 miles each direction) with some longer rides on the weekends. I haven't been able to improve my speed much over the past few months, which is why I was wondering if it was time to upgrade. Just don't know if an upgrade is worth it because I already zip past many people on their expensive Trek's, Giant's, Specialized, and Cannondale's.

sloppyschleckonds

ugo.santalucia wrote:

... you ride 250 miles per week at 20 mph and ride a bike bought on Amazon, sure you do...

I struggle with 50 miles at 20mph

sloppyschleckonds

PeteK25 wrote:

I'm trying to determine when I should upgrade from my beginner bike to a more advanced bike.

When you can afford it

ugo.santalucia

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

... you ride 250 miles per week at 20 mph and ride a bike bought on Amazon, sure you do...

I struggle with 50 miles at 20mph

I struggle with 25

johngti

Svetty wrote:

Doing 250 miles a week at 20mph is pretty decent.

Pretty decent!? It's a bit better than decent isn't it? More like well above average. According to the 2014 data,

"Average speed of rides were 23kmh (14.29mph) for men and 20kmh (12.43mph) for women"

"Average distances for rides were 41km (25.47 miles) for men and 34km (21.1 miles) for women
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/lates ... 2dl3kUr.99"

OP - if you want a new bike and can afford a new bike then get one. Won't make you faster necessarily but you'd enjoy yourself more

PeteK25

johngti wrote:

Svetty wrote:

Doing 250 miles a week at 20mph is pretty decent.

Pretty decent!? It's a bit better than decent isn't it? More like well above average. According to the 2014 data,

"Average speed of rides were 23kmh (14.29mph) for men and 20kmh (12.43mph) for women"

"Average distances for rides were 41km (25.47 miles) for men and 34km (21.1 miles) for women
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/lates ... 2dl3kUr.99"

OP - if you want a new bike and can afford a new bike then get one. Won't make you faster necessarily but you'd enjoy yourself more

I'm guessing that number varies quite a bit depending on where you're located. I'm in Chicago which is fairly flat; I'd be lucky to log 250 ft of elevation per ride. From what I can tell, the average here would seem to be around 16 to 17 mph.

cougie

Whenever you can afford it really. You might not go much faster though. Despite marketing,- it's mainly about you..
If you can get a slippery position on your existing bike that will be faster than a less aero position on a more expensive bike.

milemuncher1

Upgrade when you can pull wheelies and ride no handed.

trailflow

You're doing 20mph so your bike is clearly not holding you back. Why cant you do 22mph ? It's more plausible you have reached your physical limits.

Which Kelstal road bike are you looking at ? The Talon ?

There won't be much speed gains from the aero frame only. You'll want deep aero wheels (at least 50,60mm), aero helmet, aero clothing etc, to get the maximum gains from the frame. And if the frame is not proven it may not be any more aero than any non aero frame. It may just look aero.

The lighter components will be only that. Lighter wheels will give the biggest noticeable change to how the bike rides,handles,accelerates from a stand still. You'll want to loose at least 400 grams or more compared to your current wheels to feel the biggest difference.

If you want an numerical answer, It's very little maybe less than 0.5mph, and that will only be on the steepest of hills which you ain't riding up at 20mph On the flat or down hills it's a wash, wind resistance on any given day will effect you more.

But speed gains is the wrong way to look at it.

The aero bike should have a shorter wheel base/sharper geometry and that will make the bike feel more speed orientated.

The aero carbon frame could be heavier or near the same weight as the alloy frame. But the material properties of the carbon frame and fork will make it feel nicer to ride. Thy should be much better engineered. It should be stiff at the right places like the bottom bracket so will transfer power better. Making the bike feel sharp and direct at propelling your forward. And compliant at the right places like seat stays, headtube so will dampen the road chatter/feedback/bumps and give a less harsh ride.

The 105 groupset will give you less gaps in between the gears so less cadence interruptions, and snappy reliable shorter throw gear changes, much more powerful brakes, stiffer crank arms, improved ergonomic hoods and lever shapes. So much nicer shifting and braking experience all round. And some other aesthetic improvments like hidden cables which make any road bike look less goofy and more 'pro'. and from a distance look like Dura Ace Looks are more important than speed (if your going slow) :twisted:

PeteK25

trailflow wrote:

You're doing 20mph so your bike is clearly not holding you back. Why cant you do 22mph ?

Which Kelstal road bike are you looking at ? The Talon ?

There won't be much speed gains from the aero frame only. You'll want deep aero wheels (at least 50,60mm), aero helmet, aero clothing etc, to get the maximum gains from the frame. And if the frame is not proven it may not be any more aero than any non aero frame. It may just look aero.

The lighter components will be only that. Lighter wheels will give the biggest noticeable change to how the bike rides,handles,accelerates from a stand still. You'll want to loose at least 400 grams or more compared to your current wheels to feel the biggest difference.

If you want an numerical answer, It's very little less than 0.5mph, and that will only be on the steepest of hills which you ain't riding up at 20mph On the flat or down hills it's a wash, wind resistance on any given day will effect you more.

But speed gains is the wrong way to look at it.

The aero bike should have a shorter wheel base/sharper geometry and that will make the bike feel more speed orientated.

The aero carbon frame could be heavier or near the same weight as the alloy frame. But the material properties of the carbon frame and fork will make it feel nicer to ride. Thy should be much better engineered. It should be stiff at the right places like the bottom bracket so will transfer power better. Making the bike feel sharp and direct at propelling your forward. And compliant at the right places like seat stays, headtube so will dampen the road chatter/feedback/bumps and give a less harsh ride.

The 105 groupset will give you less gaps in between the gears so less cadence interruptions, and snappy reliable shorter throw gear changes, much more powerful brakes, stiffer crank arms, improved ergonomic hoods and lever shapes. So much nicer shifting and braking experience all round. And some other aesthetic improvments like hidden cables which make any road bike look less goofy and more 'pro'. and from a distance look like Dura Ace Looks are more important than speed (if your going slow) :twisted:

Thanks for the explanation. Yes, I am looking at the Kestrel Talon. I do like my current frame and my position on it. The main concern with my current bike is that I'm constantly using the second highest gear and I feel like I'm using a lot more power than I should. I was hoping that switching from the Shimano Claris system to the 105 would help with the additional gear ratios. I may just keep my bike and just upgrade the wheels and groupset for better cadence.

trailflow

When you say second highest gear, do you mean you are using the middle chainring on the crank ? or do you mean the biggest outer chainring with the 2nd cog on the cassette?

What are the chainring sizes currently on the Vilano ? count the number of teeth on each chainring if your not sure

step83

trailflow wrote:

When you say second highest gear, do you mean you are using the middle chainring on the crank ? or do you mean the biggest outer chainring with the 2nd cog on the cassette?

What are the chainring sizes currently on the Vilano ? count the number of teeth on each chainring if your not sure

Was thinking that, a double ring setup with semi compact or standard rings would result in more speed

The Claris triple is 50/39/30T you could get a 105 5800 double with either 52/36T 53/39T an you should be quicker in the big ring simply because it bigger, bulk of your riding is flat you can get away with a taller gearing on the front. Only went with 105 as its an easy off the shelf option.

PeteK25

trailflow wrote:

When you say second highest gear, do you mean you are using the middle chainring on the crank ? or do you mean the biggest outer chainring with the 2nd cog on the cassette?

What are the chainring sizes currently on the Vilano ? count the number of teeth on each chainring if your not sure

I am using the biggest outer chainring with the 2nd smallest cog on the cassette. The chainring should be a 50/39/30T and casette should be 12-25T.

PeteK25

Step83 wrote:

trailflow wrote:

When you say second highest gear, do you mean you are using the middle chainring on the crank ? or do you mean the biggest outer chainring with the 2nd cog on the cassette?

What are the chainring sizes currently on the Vilano ? count the number of teeth on each chainring if your not sure

Was thinking that, a double ring setup with semi compact or standard rings would result in more speed

The Claris triple is 50/39/30T you could get a 105 5800 double with either 52/36T 53/39T an you should be quicker in the big ring simply because it bigger, bulk of your riding is flat you can get away with a taller gearing on the front. Only went with 105 as its an easy off the shelf option.

Good call...I was thinking about a double ring set as well since I never use the inner ring.

trailflow

Yep i advise a 52/36t or 53/39t also. Then you will get better use of the other cogs in the middle.

burnthesheep

Kudos if the miles/wk are true.

But usually people who log 250mi/wk don't ask questions like this. Just sayin...

PeteK25

burnthesheep wrote:

Kudos if the miles/wk are true.

But usually people who log 250mi/wk don't ask questions like this. Just sayin...

As I mentioned before, most of those miles (170) are commuting to/from work. Since I was always slowly improving, I never thought that my bike was holding me back so I never did any research on it. Now that I have seemed to maxed out, I'm finally looking at options on how to improve and understand my bike better. If the miles were for competing rather than commuting, then I probably would have researched a lot sooner!

cld531c

PeteK25 wrote:

trailflow wrote:

When you say second highest gear, do you mean you are using the middle chainring on the crank ? or do you mean the biggest outer chainring with the 2nd cog on the cassette?

What are the chainring sizes currently on the Vilano ? count the number of teeth on each chainring if your not sure

I am using the biggest outer chainring with the 2nd smallest cog on the cassette. The chainring should be a 50/39/30T and casette should be 12-25T.

Use the smallest cog at the same cadence if you want to go faster!

burnthesheep

Kudos then! God bless that's a commute, about 20 each way!

FWIW I thought the midwest is windy. Any aero help may be good for you decreasing your commute time per week. A very small increase in avg speed could save you tons of time per month. Just 1/2 mph avg could be hours per month.

Commuting and upgrading? I dunno, Supersix Evo on 105 components? 40mm wheelset. Slightly aero clothing. Then you're saving hours per month.