Bye Bye Bertie

r0bh

josame wrote:

he looks good on his bike

I don't get why people think this - his much-too-upright out of the saddle climbing style looks poor and add this onto his TT bum shuffle and, whilst he's no Froome, he's definitely not stylish on a bike.

josame

r0bh wrote:

josame wrote:

he looks good on his bike

I don't get why people think this - his much-too-upright out of the saddle climbing style looks poor and add this onto his TT bum shuffle and, whilst he's no Froome, he's definitely not stylish on a bike.

Each to there own - I like the nonchalant spinning

dinyull

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Dorset Boy wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

There's plenty of hate for him here and yet EPO drug cheat Millar has a job on prime time TV, Sky's Jiffy bags aren't proved and all is good.

double standards from losers id say.

In addition to what others have said, i think you also (perhaps deliberately) miss the point that Bertie is unrepentent, refusing to admit his guilt, still claims to have won those GTs that were stripped from him, etc whereas St David wears his cilice permanently!

Officially Contador isn't guilty of much, not making sure he bought his food from a trusted source, his punishment for that is actually pretty harsh. We don't know if Millar has fessed up fully and if he has nothing he has done has been against his own interests by doing so, if Contador had been caught so red handed maybe he'd have played the same role as repentent doper.

Millar's book offers plenty of excuses - the pressure of being a team leader, others depending on him etc - in short morally there isn't a lot between them on this.

Yeah, Millar likes to claim some of his best results were clean, despite being book ended by years he admits to doping. And he's used it very much to his benefit.

r0bh

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Officially Contador isn't guilty of much, not making sure he bought his food from a trusted source, his punishment for that is actually pretty harsh.

Officially Contador is guilty of taking supplements that were contaminated with Clenbuterol. That was the conclusion of CAS.

blazing_saddles

r0bh wrote:

josame wrote:

he looks good on his bike

I don't get why people think this - his much-too-upright out of the saddle climbing style looks poor and add this onto his TT bum shuffle and, whilst he's no Froome, he's definitely not stylish on a bike.

This.
Sometimes he looks more like he's on a trampoline than a bike.
Much like Tommy Voeckler, only without the tongue and nobody lauds his style as being pretty.
Marco Pantani going uphill, he ain't.

Dorset_Boy

I always thing Bertie has either ants in his bibs or has nappy rash the way he can't sit still. It's not a very efficient way to ride up hills.

ddraver

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Much like Tommy Voeckler, only without the tongue

THANK! YOU!

confused@BR

I remember watching 'duking it out' with Rasmussen up the mountain in the Tour. It was mesmerising but at the end a little worm of doubt crept in and that was that spell broken. He showed to best advantage when dealing with his team-mate at Astana; that was a true test which he won conclusively.
If he chooses to go into team management the aspects of his character that helped him then should let him forge a great career.

Richmond Racer 2

confused@BR wrote:

I remember watching 'duking it out' with Rasmussen up the mountain in the Tour. It was mesmerising but at the end a little worm of doubt crept in and that was that spell broken. He showed to best advantage when dealing with his team-mate at Astana; that was a true test which he won conclusively.
If he chooses to go into team management the aspects of his character that helped him then should let him forge a great career.

I think it was the same for us tbh

Richmond Racer 2

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

confused@BR wrote:

I remember watching 'duking it out' with Rasmussen up the mountain in the Tour. It was mesmerising but at the end a little worm of doubt crept in and that was that spell broken. He showed to best advantage when dealing with his team-mate at Astana; that was a true test which he won conclusively.
If he chooses to go into team management the aspects of his character that helped him then should let him forge a great career.

I think it was the same for us tbh

jimmythecuckoo

I have had a bit of a re-think to get a more detailed take on this.

I think he was no worse than others of his generation. History will judge him accordingly.

However, had he 'fessed up and then produced some of these heroic swashbuckling rides, I think he would have much more love on the internet (as of course, we all know that's the primary thing that matters !)

Some of his riding in this Tour was inspirational if not flawed and it is beyond argument that luck has been against him in the last few years with crashes.

His choice of teams will not help the judgement on him. To have ridden for either USPS, Astana or a Bjarne Riis team would be bad... all three?

But he will be missed.

DeVlaeminck

r0bh wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Officially Contador isn't guilty of much, not making sure he bought his food from a trusted source, his punishment for that is actually pretty harsh.

Officially Contador is guilty of taking supplements that were contaminated with Clenbuterol. That was the conclusion of CAS.

OK I thought they bought the contaminated steak story but if it's contaminated supplements it's still a lesser form of doping than Millar's epo use surely.

salsiccia1

If there's any doping been going on I don't think it's particularly egregious. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, naïve as this might appear.

Dorset_Boy

Wasn't a deal effectively cut to go for the dodgy steak in order to avoid the plasticisers case being brought which would have put him in an even worse light?

As far as luck over the last few years, you make your own to a large degree. Clearly his bike handling skills and positional sense have been off hence the number of crashes.

milton50

Salsiccia1 wrote:

If there's any doping been going on I don't think it's particularly egregious. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, naïve as this might appear.

:shock:

salsiccia1

Milton50 wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

If there's any doping been going on I don't think it's particularly egregious. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, naïve as this might appear.

:shock:

I understand the scepticism. I just don't think anyone will get away with the industrial stuff any more, especially if they're winning fairly regularly. Low-level stuff maybe.

Either way, I've always liked him and think he's been a great racer, certainly one of the mentally strongest of recent decades.

rick_chasey

Plenty of people forget how invincible he was back in the day.

2008 Giro, comes literally from the beach for a last minute and it was a one horse race very early on.

What was nice was that when his powers faded, he still fought and won big races. That's what makes him endearing.

His swashbuckling attacks weren't all that exciting when you knew as soon as he went he had it in the bag.

What makes him a TRUE CHAMP, is that he still won big races even when he wasn't the strongest. We then lived with the tension of whether he would make it or not. That's what's good. A slightly sub-par Contador is much better than a top top peak Contador.

And if you forget the re-writing of the books, he won a lot of big big races.

slim_boy_fat

I grew to appreciate him later in his career. Some of his most ardent supporters made him hard to like. Doping aside he was a proper bike racer and the sport will be worse for not having his attacking style in the peleton.

mfin

Slim Boy Fat wrote:

I grew to appreciate him later in his career. Some of his most ardent supporters made him hard to like. Doping aside he was a proper bike racer and the sport will be worse for not having his attacking style in the peloton.

But he was a filthy doping bastard earlier in his career yeah? A cheat, an idiot, and part of a problem that completely shat on any clean cyclists potential to be competitive let alone to win anything?

This is why cycling will not miss him. It will be better off for every doper that retires.

I hear what you are saying, but post clen ban Contador you are still watching the same twàt.

Earlier watching him vs Rasmussen was mentioned. There are some people that will look that up and enjoy watching it, then there are others which watch it and are glad cycling doesn't seem to be like that any more.

RichN95.

I think he was a little overrated as an attacking rider. He didn't often make attacks stick, particularly post ban. Eventually he got found out by riders realising that if they let him go on his first attack they'd have little trouble reeling him back gradually.

However, he was an exceptional defensive rider. He could follow any attack from any rider and do it multiple times, responding to an array of pace changes. Once he had the lead in a race he didn't lose it. He'd barely lose a second.

salsiccia1

Sorry, can't bring myself to hate someone who may or may not have cheated at sport.

dolan_driver

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

His choice of teams will not help the judgement on him. To have ridden for either USPS, Astana or a Bjarne Riis team would be bad... all three?

Don't forget ONCE and Liberty Seguros too!

The real test for him now will be whether he still lays claim to 9, and not 7, grand tour titles. If he comes out with some fancy bike with a "9 GT paint scheme", he can go fook himself. If he finally admits he has only won seven GTs, he will go up in my estimation.

DD.

epc06

mfin wrote:

Slim Boy Fat wrote:

I grew to appreciate him later in his career. Some of his most ardent supporters made him hard to like. Doping aside he was a proper bike racer and the sport will be worse for not having his attacking style in the peloton.

But he was a filthy doping bastard earlier in his career yeah? A cheat, an idiot, and part of a problem that completely shat on any clean cyclists potential to be competitive let alone to win anything?

This is why cycling will not miss him. It will be better off for every doper that retires.

I hear what you are saying, but post clen ban Contador you are still watching the same twàt.

Earlier watching him vs Rasmussen was mentioned. There are some people that will look that up and enjoy watching it, then there are others which watch it and are glad cycling doesn't seem to be like that any more.

You must think cycling is full of idiots then

epc06

Dorset Boy wrote:

Wasn't a deal effectively cut to go for the dodgy steak in order to avoid the plasticisers case being brought which would have put him in an even worse light?

As far as luck over the last few years, you make your own to a large degree. Clearly his bike handling skills and positional sense have been off hence the number of crashes.

From memory I think the evidence of plasticisers was damning but not actually punishable.

For me he will be a loss but it has been a season too far for him unfortunately. Not bothered by his past since he came from an era where most were 'at it' so I dont really understand the hate for him on that score.

Richmond Racer 2

Dolan Driver wrote:

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

His choice of teams will not help the judgement on him. To have ridden for either USPS, Astana or a Bjarne Riis team would be bad... all three?

Don't forget ONCE and Liberty Seguros too!

The real test for him now will be whether he still lays claim to 9, and not 7, grand tour titles. If he comes out with some fancy bike with a "9 GT paint scheme", he can go fook himself. If he finally admits he has only won seven GTs, he will go up in my estimation.

DD.

He has repeatedly spoken of 9 titles, not 7, and regards himself as a victim

So don't hold your breath

specialgueststar

Just missing a Frenchie' bandwidth grabbing montage

Dorset_Boy

Is that a Giro he actually won, or the giro he shouldn't have been riding due to the ban he should have been forced to sit out?

r0bh

EPC06 wrote:

Dorset Boy wrote:

Wasn't a deal effectively cut to go for the dodgy steak in order to avoid the plasticisers case being brought which would have put him in an even worse light?

As far as luck over the last few years, you make your own to a large degree. Clearly his bike handling skills and positional sense have been off hence the number of crashes.

From memory I think the evidence of plasticisers was damning but not actually punishable.

http://nyvelocity.com/articles/intervie ... -ashenden/

Although obviously this is very much one side of the story.

specialgueststar

Dorset Boy wrote:

Is that a Giro he actually won, or the giro he shouldn't have been riding due to the ban he should have been forced to sit out?

I thought the enigmatic expression was the giveaway......

dinyull

r0bh wrote:

EPC06 wrote:

Dorset Boy wrote:

Wasn't a deal effectively cut to go for the dodgy steak in order to avoid the plasticisers case being brought which would have put him in an even worse light?

As far as luck over the last few years, you make your own to a large degree. Clearly his bike handling skills and positional sense have been off hence the number of crashes.

From memory I think the evidence of plasticisers was damning but not actually punishable.

http://nyvelocity.com/articles/intervie ... -ashenden/

Although obviously this is very much one side of the story.

Interesting. Thanks for that.