Team Ratings & Team of the Tour

Pross

RichN95 wrote:

Pross wrote:

As AtC said, QS weren't worth an A, a B would be generous. The days they tried to boss the finish for Kittel were his worst stages and even if they were there with Kittel as their main man surely Dan has enough GC history to have deserved some support?

Kittel won five stages. They came for stage wins. And they got five. One, two, three, four, five stages.

Yep, but as a team I didn't feel they performed and Kittel was often fighting for himself in the last couple of kms. They obviously still worked hard to get to that position hence a B but I don't think as a team they got it good enough to deserve an A. The biggest contribution they made was messing up Stage 2 so that Kittel didn't get caught up in the Cav crash.

RichN95.

Pross wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Pross wrote:

As AtC said, QS weren't worth an A, a B would be generous. The days they tried to boss the finish for Kittel were his worst stages and even if they were there with Kittel as their main man surely Dan has enough GC history to have deserved some support?

Kittel won five stages. They came for stage wins. And they got five. One, two, three, four, five stages.

Yep, but as a team I didn't feel they performed and Kittel was often fighting for himself in the last couple of kms. They obviously still worked hard to get to that position hence a B but I don't think as a team they got it good enough to deserve an A. The biggest contribution they made was messing up Stage 2 so that Kittel didn't get caught up in the Cav crash.

My rankings have always been about what a team achieved rather than how they achieved them

Pross

Fair enough but had Martin won the GC and Kittel not won a stage with QS as a whole riding the same race would that be an A for the team given it was pretty much all achieved by an individual rider?

RichN95.

Pross wrote:

Fair enough but had Martin won the GC and Kittel not won a stage with QS as a whole riding the same race would that be an A for the team given it was pretty much all achieved by an individual rider?

If you win GC you get an A automatically. Just as if you win a stage you get a C minimum.

m.r.m.

I don't think you can separate QS from Kittel's wins, just because he didn't get a perfect lead out.

timoid.

M.R.M. wrote:

I don't think you can separate QS from Kittel's wins, just because he didn't get a perfect lead out.

Also his boys put huge shifts in to reel in breakaways day after day. There is no argument that they get an A.

timoid.

BigMat wrote:

I don't get the Contador love. He was in the race as a team leader, a GC contender, and he failed miserably. He shouldn't get within a mile of a 'team of the race'.

Agreed. It was painful to watch at times. Contador is a shell of what he was. I wish he would retire.

rick_chasey

A Grade
SUNWEB- yeah
SKY - yeah
QUICK STEP - yeah

B Grade
CANNONDALE - yeah
BORA - No. Sagan getting chucked out early is no excuse. C grade
DIRECT ENERGIE - stage win is a minimum no? C grade
AG2R - yeah
LOTTO JUMBO - yeah; they also were active elsewhere until retirements forced out two good riders

C Grade
ORICA - yeah - just. No stage win....
FDJ - yeah
DIMENSION DATA - yeah
TREK - yeah
WANTY - yeah
ASTANA - yeah

D Grade
BMC - No. E or F. Absolute Shocker.
UAE - E or F. Rubbish
LOTTO SOUDAL - Fair. No who missed tried harder
FORTUNEO - yeah

E Grade
MOVISTAR - yeah
COFIDIS - yeah

F Grade
BAHRAIN - yeah
KATUSHA - yeah


Team of the Tour
Leader - Froome (just ahead of Uran)
Sprinters -Kittel, Matthews
Attacker -Barguil
Climber - Landa
Domestiques - Kwiatkowski, Naesen, Vermote
Fighter - D.Martin

yeah

kingstongraham

M.R.M. wrote:

I don't think you can separate QS from Kittel's wins, just because he didn't get a perfect lead out.

He was always in the right place to use his finishing power. The fact he only needed one or two in the last 10km to get him into that position is hardly the team's fault. Nor is the fact that Katusha and Cofidis kept doing their work for them despite all evidence that it was a bad idea.

imatfaal

Leader - Kwiatkowski Michal (POL)
Sprinter - Kwia, "What-his-name?-won-MSR"
Attacker -Little Flower
Climber - Kwiatek
Domestiques - Flowerman, MK, 2014WC
Fighter - Michał Kwiatkowski

salsiccia1

Hat. He was completely brilliant.

specialgueststar

Ag2r as a B - movie team should go straight to the comedy post of the Tour

lostboysaint

BigMat wrote:

I don't get the Contador love. He was in the race as a team leader, a GC contender, and he failed miserably. He shouldn't get within a mile of a 'team of the race'.

Nostalgia.

And I agree with you.

lostboysaint

Also a quick read through and the one I am in agreement of is the bumping of AG2R to an A. Regardless of Bardet only just clinging on they really lit up the race this year.

blazing_saddles

lostboysaint wrote:

Also a quick read through and the one I am in agreement of is the bumping of AG2R to an A. Regardless of Bardet only just clinging on they really lit up the race this year.

Pierre Latour was supposed to be up there contesting the white jersey overall.
He ended up looking more like he was contesting the Lantern Rouge.

RichN95.

lostboysaint wrote:

Also a quick read through and the one I am in agreement of is the bumping of AG2R to an A. Regardless of Bardet only just clinging on they really lit up the race this year.

I had originally pencilled in AG2R as an A. But then I'd also have to give Cannondale an A and five teams getting an A seemed too much to me. If I give As out too freely I'll have to start introducing A*s and that would be silly.

knedlicky

imatfaal wrote:

Leader - Kwiatkowski Michal (POL)
Sprinter - Kwia, "What-his-name?-won-MSR"
Attacker -Little Flower
Climber - Kwiatek
Domestiques - Flowerman, MK, 2014WC
Fighter - Michał Kwiatkowski

Another category in the Team of the Tour is necessary:

salsiccia1

HAT

No_Ta_Doctor

RichN95 wrote:

lostboysaint wrote:

Also a quick read through and the one I am in agreement of is the bumping of AG2R to an A. Regardless of Bardet only just clinging on they really lit up the race this year.

I had originally pencilled in AG2R as an A. But then I'd also have to give Cannondale an A and five teams getting an A seemed too much to me. If I give As out too freely I'll have to start introducing A*s and that would be silly.

Cannondale got their man on the podium, but that was largely Uran doing it by himself.
AG2R deserve a better grade for at least trying to take the race to Froome. They were aggressive and animated the race.

They also came second in the team classification by a slim 7'14" - Trek were 3rd at 1h 44' 46"
Cannondale took home more prize money - 243,250 to AG2R's 173,040, but if you take out the 200K (Uran) and 100k (Bardet) for podium places then AG2R won more elsewhere.

m.r.m.

Can a team serve both a sprinter as well as a GC candidate and succeed? Looks to me like you need to clearly decide beforehand what you're going to be in this day and age.

kingstongraham

M.R.M. wrote:

Can a team serve both a sprinter as well as a GC candidate and succeed? Looks to me like you need to clearly decide beforehand what you're going to be in this day and age.

Quickstep seem to have got this about right in the Tour and Giro this year. Prime focus is sprints, with a bit of a lone ranger in the top 10 of the GC.

I don't think you can do it the other way if you have a real contender for the GC win.

effillo

KingstonGraham wrote:

M.R.M. wrote:

Can a team serve both a sprinter as well as a GC candidate and succeed? Looks to me like you need to clearly decide beforehand what you're going to be in this day and age.

Quickstep seem to have got this about right in the Tour and Giro this year. Prime focus is sprints, with a bit of a lone ranger in the top 10 of the GC.

I don't think you can do it the other way if you have a real contender for the GC win.

See Sky 2012 and the problems that caused there. Although the Paris stage seeing Brad working for Cav was awesome.

timoid.

KingstonGraham wrote:

M.R.M. wrote:

Can a team serve both a sprinter as well as a GC candidate and succeed? Looks to me like you need to clearly decide beforehand what you're going to be in this day and age.

Quickstep seem to have got this about right in the Tour and Giro this year. Prime focus is sprints, with a bit of a lone ranger in the top 10 of the GC.

I don't think you can do it the other way if you have a real contender for the GC win.

It used to be the other way round. Telekom was set up for Ullrich / Riis, but had enough guys there for Zabel. Lotto supported (a usually pants) GC rider and left McEwan a chaperone or two.

kingstongraham

Timoid. wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

M.R.M. wrote:

Can a team serve both a sprinter as well as a GC candidate and succeed? Looks to me like you need to clearly decide beforehand what you're going to be in this day and age.

Quickstep seem to have got this about right in the Tour and Giro this year. Prime focus is sprints, with a bit of a lone ranger in the top 10 of the GC.

I don't think you can do it the other way if you have a real contender for the GC win.

It used to be the other way round. Telekom was set up for Ullrich / Riis, but had enough guys there for Zabel. Lotto supported (a usually pants) GC rider and left McEwen a chaperone or two.

I think Kittel could do it with one or two in the last few km, but someone else would have to do the work to bring the break back. This year, the other teams did that for them, but they can't rely on it.

m.r.m.

QS has been brought up here as a disappointment of the Tour despite winning 5 stages. Hence I wonder if success in sprinting and the GC are mutually exclusive in this day and age (or maybe even ever).

kingstongraham

M.R.M. wrote:

QS has been brought up here as a disappointment of the Tour despite winning 5 stages. Hence I wonder if success in sprinting and the GC are mutually exclusive in this day and age (or maybe even ever).

QS did fantastically well in this Tour. 5 stage wins and an unlucky 6th on GC.

Cavendish got three stage wins in 2012.

m.r.m.

I agree. Read the disappointment thread for differing views.

imatfaal

knedlicky wrote:

imatfaal wrote:

Leader - Kwiatkowski Michal (POL)
Sprinter - Kwia, "What-his-name?-won-MSR"
Attacker -Little Flower
Climber - Kwiatek
Domestiques - Flowerman, MK, 2014WC
Fighter - Michał Kwiatkowski

Another category in the Team of the Tour is necessary:

Nice one. Although Froome is a bit disturbing - and Whitney's arms are too chunky to fit him :-)

RichN95.

I've just had a thought. Over the winter Alpecin dumped Giant/Sunweb in favour of Katusha. Anyone know how that's working out for them?

tailwindhome

RichN95 wrote:

I've just had a thought. Over the winter Alpecin dumped Giant/Sunweb in favour of Katusha. Anyone know how that's working out for them?

It all a bit hair today, gone tomorrow.