Condor carbon, any good

Mr _Tibbs
Mr _Tibbs Posts: 46
edited August 2017 in Road buying advice
I appreciate the reputation they have for steelframes but are their carbon frames any good or are they just Tokyo frames sprayed and branded.

Comments

  • Thigh_burn
    Thigh_burn Posts: 489
    Interested in this as well. Which Condor are you looking at?

    I've been wondering about the Barachi, which looks great, but feels quite expensive to me - with a not quite top of the line groupset, and not silly wheels, you don't get much change for £4,500. Can't help feeling that a Cervelo R3 or Canyon Ultimate at about £1k less are just as good. But without the Condor brand. I say that as a fanboy, I have a Fratello.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Not sure what you mean by 'tokyo' frames, but even if they are not open mould as such, I would guess they are relatively small-run designs made in either Taiwan or China under contract to Condor. Happy to be corrected.
  • Mr _Tibbs
    Mr _Tibbs Posts: 46
    Thigh_burn wrote:
    Interested in this as well. Which Condor are you looking at?

    I've been wondering about the Barachi, which looks great, but feels quite expensive to me - with a not quite top of the line groupset, and not silly wheels, you don't get much change for £4,500. Can't help feeling that a Cervelo R3 or Canyon Ultimate at about £1k less are just as good. But without the Condor brand. I say that as a fanboy, I have a Fratello.
    I am quite taken by the leggero in the Duracell colorsheme or the plain one.

    Barachi does look good too
  • Mr _Tibbs
    Mr _Tibbs Posts: 46
    Imposter wrote:
    Not sure what you mean by 'tokyo' frames, but even if they are not open mould as such, I would guess they are relatively small-run designs made in either Taiwan or China under contract to Condor. Happy to be corrected.
    Good question really.

    I was keen on the rite vlandreen a while ago but research suggested that the frame that they use is not their design, not their choice of layup (is that the right phrase) and that they couldn't assure that another manufacturer wouldn't start painting their frames the same color for a grand less.

    Also, their website suggests handmade in Italy... is that a good thing?, given that Asia seems to have some of the best carbon fabricators. I have no experience of Italian carbon so don't know what to expect.
  • Midlands Grimpeur
    Midlands Grimpeur Posts: 340
    Not sure if this is still the case but they used to have their own facility in Italy which made all their frames. The guys in Condor used to say their carbon frames were "finished" in Italy which is a bit vague but often means they buy the carbon in from abroad (would suspect Taiwan), either tubes or moulded frames and then complete whatever assembly/finishing is required.

    With regards it being Italian carbon, highly unlikely. As I understand it most of the Italian composites manufacturers left in business make carbon for supercars (Ferrari etc.) and aerospace. A bike frame made from it would likely cost tens of thousands! From recollection the last company to make frame tubes was ATR who made tubes for colnago but they went bust (this is from memory, I may be wrong).
  • Claire Beaumont
    Claire Beaumont Posts: 2
    Hey Guys, long time listener first time caller.
    I work for Condor and I just wanted to jump in. Yes you are right, the raw carbon material is made in Japan and America not Italy. We use Toray fibres. The raw material is flown to Italy to our factory where we build and construct each frame from scratch e.g. cut the tube, bond it. We use Italian staff because they are really good a building carbon bikes by hand e.g. not pushing carbon into a mould. This method also allows us to easily do custom geometry, and any customer wanting a custom features, say bosses for a rack will typically have a 6-8 week wait.
    Here is a video we made a few years ago and continue to make in this way.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISR5fM2-DTc

    We use resins with nano particles basically little bits that plug the gaps rather than slapping on basic resin as some companies may use in a mould constructed frame.
    All our frames are designed by us and tested in jigs and then also with team riders in races and training because if Ed Clancy can break it, its not good enough. If our guy can't ride a road race on our frame for 6 hours its no goo.

    @Mr_Tibbs you are right, Asia does make excellent carbon but its also about the quality of the carbon chosen and how its laid. There are some frames that are amazing feats of engineering and great to ride such as Trek's Madone 9 but there are also cheaper frames that will use cheaper carbon or build methods to strengthen weak point and end up being heavier than alloy or it'll be super stiff it will be painfull to ride/

    Condor also provides in-store bike fitting service as part of the process and frameset price. You get an hour honing your size with us before you commit, a post pick up refit and a 4 week service.
    Hope that clears some stuff up.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Claire Beaumont wrote:
    Hey Guys, long time listener first time caller.
    I work for Condor and I just wanted to jump in. Yes you are right, the raw carbon material is made in Japan and America not Italy. We use Toray fibres. The raw material is flown to Italy to our factory where we build and construct each frame from scratch e.g. cut the tube, bond it. We use Italian staff because they are really good a building carbon bikes by hand e.g. not pushing carbon into a mould. This method also allows us to easily do custom geometry, and any customer wanting a custom features, say bosses for a rack will typically have a 6-8 week wait.
    Here is a video we made a few years ago and continue to make in this way.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISR5fM2-DTc

    We use resins with nano particles basically little bits that plug the gaps rather than slapping on basic resin as some companies may use in a mould constructed frame.
    All our frames are designed by us and tested in jigs and then also with team riders in races and training because if Ed Clancy can break it, its not good enough. If our guy can't ride a road race on our frame for 6 hours its no goo.

    @Mr_Tibbs you are right, Asia does make excellent carbon but its also about the quality of the carbon chosen and how its laid. There are some frames that are amazing feats of engineering and great to ride such as Trek's Madone 9 but there are also cheaper frames that will use cheaper carbon or build methods to strengthen weak point and end up being heavier than alloy or it'll be super stiff it will be painfull to ride/

    Condor also provides in-store bike fitting service as part of the process and frameset price. You get an hour honing your size with us before you commit, a post pick up refit and a 4 week service.
    Hope that clears some stuff up.

    Why there is no feature to like a post?

    I like this post! 8)
    left the forum March 2023
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    That was a 'drops mic' moment as the kids like to say.
  • mercia_man
    mercia_man Posts: 1,431
    edited August 2017
    Excellent and informative post from Claire Beaumont. It gives me confidence that Condor carbon frames are decent.

    I've recently re-watched YouTube videos by Aussie carbon expert Raoul Leuscher who cuts frames in half to examine their construction. The poor quality of admittedly older Asian-made monocoque frames by "prestige" manufacturers Wilier and Bianchi was mind boggling. It looked like the sheets of carbon fibre had almost been slapped on willy nilly. Wrinkles, voids, bits of bladder left inside - monocoque construction can hide a multitude of sins. Modern monocoque carbon techniques are much better, according to Leuscher, and the cutting up of a recent Trek Emonda sl revealed much higher quality.

    I know my comments may upset owners of some big name brands but if you want your carbon frame to last, it would seem that tube-to-tube carbon-wrapped or bonded lug construction may often be superior. The videos showing construction by Italian workshops for Condor, Sarto, Colnago and Legend bikes, for example, reveal smooth interior and exterior tubes rather than the hideous mess inside monocoques plastered with decals claiming all sorts of technological advantages.
  • bluemoon17
    bluemoon17 Posts: 718
    Brilliant post Claire, thanks.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    That was a 'drops mic' moment as the kids like to say.

    It was certainly an interesting post, but we shouldn't be surprised that a Condor representative is telling us how great their frames are.
  • menthel
    menthel Posts: 2,484
    And that is why Condor is probably the best bike shop in the world... ;)

    In all seriousness, they know their bikes and give some of the best service I have ever had. It costs more than off the shelf and you have to wait but they always come up with the best.
    RIP commute...
    Sometimes seen bimbling around on a purple Fratello Disc or black and red Aprire Vincenza.
  • Claire Beaumont
    Claire Beaumont Posts: 2
    Imposter wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    That was a 'drops mic' moment as the kids like to say.

    It was certainly an interesting post, but we shouldn't be surprised that a Condor representative is telling us how great their frames are.

    Totally get your scepticism, far play but I was very clear in my post to describe what Condor does, not to hark on about if they are good or not. I'll leave that part to the team riders, mag reviewers and customers.
    I just simply jumped on to explain the bit that was unclear, and passed on to the website guys at Condor that they should do better at explaining where the carbon comes from and how a frame is made.

    Cheers
  • Flâneur
    Flâneur Posts: 3,081
    I appreciate the informative nature of the response, a focus on what Condor do and no bashing of others.
    Stevo 666 wrote: Come on you Scousers! 20/12/2014
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  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Claire Beaumont wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    That was a 'drops mic' moment as the kids like to say.

    It was certainly an interesting post, but we shouldn't be surprised that a Condor representative is telling us how great their frames are.

    Totally get your scepticism, far play but I was very clear in my post to describe what Condor does, not to hark on about if they are good or not. I'll leave that part to the team riders, mag reviewers and customers.
    I just simply jumped on to explain the bit that was unclear, and passed on to the website guys at Condor that they should do better at explaining where the carbon comes from and how a frame is made.

    Cheers

    It's not really scepticism Claire - it's not that I don't believe what you say, simply that as (presumably) someone in Condor's marketing department, I would have been very surprised if you hadn't said it.

    Similarly, I'd be very surprised if your team riders didn't back up what you say, not least for contractual reasons. As for magazine testers.....

    But the manufacturing info was interesting. Don't get me wrong, I've always been a Condor fan, right back to the Olympiasport days...

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