Dura Ace 9000 / 9001 or new Ultegra R8000

bianchi_dave

Due to a change of plan (unable to sell a perfect condition Scott Solace frame), I have three frames but only two groupsets (6800 and a Shimano mixed), hence in the market for a new 'best' group for my Foil Premium.

I can afford Dura Ace 9100 but just can't bring myself to spend that much as I know the value of a pound. I only need shifters, mechs and chainset at present and for just over £600 I can get either 9000 (with the redesigned 9001 shifters) or R8000. Question is which one?

Will Dura Ace always be 'better' - its the 'best' group but will the 9000 date now that 9100 is becoming more common? Also a bit lighter than R8000 (but not much in it).

Purely subjective but I love the look of the new Ultegra and it would go really well with the matt black Foil frame. Has anyone actually used it yet? - not many ridden reviews out there.

6800 is stupidly cheap now and I've been well impressed with it - just think I'd like a change for the best bike.

Also thought about Di2 but I'm pretty good at fettling and not sure its worth the money (to me). That said, the Foil frame has the aero bars with the cubby hole for control box and seat post battery holder etc so everything would be hidden.

Any thoughts? - Other than I know that 105 is good and anything else is just vanity or bling and this is a real first world issue!

Cheers

Lookyhere

A guy i know has, he says its better at shifting than 6800 but its the braking he is really impressed with.
i rode his bike briefly, the front shift was ridiculously easy and the rear was almost on par with di2, my ride was just up an down the street, he has done maybe 500km on it.

i was going for a deal on 9000 'set from my LBS but i think i may well go for the 8000, looks good doesnt it.

sloppyschleckonds

The difference in price is so minimal I'd go 9100

paul64

The logic always seemed to be that for the first year you won't notice much difference but with each passing year the quality difference of bearings vs bushings etc becomes more noticeable and Dura Ace stays tight. Presumably still the same with 9000/8000/105 (when the latter catches up)

bianchi_dave

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

The difference in price is so minimal I'd go 9100

It was 9000 and R8000 which was a minimal difference, but the 9000 chainset I was considering is no longer available, so has bumped the price up by about £80.

Best prices I can find (shopping around buying bits from the cheapest retailer) for shifters, mechs and chainset -

9000 (with 9001 shifters) - £750 ish (depending on chainset price)
9100 - £892
R8000 - £634 (52/36 170mm cranks I need are not yet in stock but expected this month).

I think if I was to go Dura Ace, the difference between 9000 and 9100 is only 100-150 so it would make sense to get 9100. R8000 looks good value, saving nearly £260 over 9100.

w00dster

9100 for me if you can afford it. I have 9000, 6800 and 105. No real noticeable difference in performance, but and I know its a bit daft, I just prefer the 9000. Its a mental thing but I just prefer riding the bike with Dura Ace (its also my better and lighter frame and wheels so that helps)
Ultegra DI2 is good, but I'm a bit of a dinosaur and I prefer mechanical Dura Ace (yes I have ridden Ultegra DI2 a lot - yes it works fine, but I just like the feel of mechanical dura ace - probably all in my head)

Looks wise, I prefer 9000, but if I was spending close to a grand I'd want to make sure I had the latest version of a product. 9000 may start to look dated compared to 9100, a bit like when I see 6700 compared to 6800.

bianchi_dave

w00dster wrote:

9100 for me if you can afford it. I have 9000, 6800 and 105. No real noticeable difference in performance, but and I know its a bit daft, I just prefer the 9000. Its a mental thing but I just prefer riding the bike with Dura Ace (its also my better and lighter frame and wheels so that helps)
Ultegra DI2 is good, but I'm a bit of a dinosaur and I prefer mechanical Dura Ace (yes I have ridden Ultegra DI2 a lot - yes it works fine, but I just like the feel of mechanical dura ace - probably all in my head)

Looks wise, I prefer 9000, but if I was spending close to a grand I'd want to make sure I had the latest version of a product. 9000 may start to look dated compared to 9100, a bit like when I see 6700 compared to 6800.

Yeah I'm thinking this way and I've just found deals on mechanical 9100 - shifters and mechs for £399, £10 CHEAPER than the best R8000 prices! Its the price of the 9100 crankset that's the kicker, best I can find is £360 at CRC. Makes my 9100 mini group 'only' £760, which is extremely appealing!

ayjaycee

On the basis that money doesn't seem top be the real issue, If you bought Ultegra, are you likely to think "I wish I had gone for Dura Ace as it's top of the range' every time that you look at the bike. If so, go for the latter. If not, go for the former. In the real world, they will both be very good and do the job required of them with one being (very slightly) lighter and maybe a little smoother in operation.

bianchi_dave

ayjaycee wrote:

On the basis that money doesn't seem top be the real issue, If you bought Ultegra, are you likely to think "I wish I had gone for Dura Ace as it's top of the range' every time that you look at the bike. If so, go for the latter. If not, go for the former. In the real world, they will both be very good and do the job required of them with one being (very slightly) lighter and maybe a little smoother in operation.

That's the thing. My Foil is the top model and only comes from factory with Dura Ace, although I bought it as used but as new condition module and fitted a 6800 group I already had.

DA 9100 would make it a true superbike IMO, and R8000 may not make it quite as special, although I know there would be no real world difference! I love the frame and its a keeper whatever I do, so perhaps the quality and longevity (perceived or otherwise) of Dura Ace is the way to go.

paulmon

I have the 9100 groupset and its superb with one exception. The finish on the chainset is really bad compared to DA9000/Ultegra 6800. I had one ride on mine with winter boots earlier in the year and they have rubbed the finish on the crank arms. I also dropped a chain over the big ring which has made a bit of a mess that is really easy to see.

bianchi_dave

PaulMon wrote:

I have the 9100 groupset and its superb with one exception. The finish on the chainset is really bad compared to DA9000/Ultegra 6800. I had one ride on mine with winter boots earlier in the year and they have rubbed the finish on the crank arms. I also dropped a chain over the big ring which has made a bit of a mess that is really easy to see.

I've got quite narrow feet so have never had an issue with crank arm rub, even with overshoes on. I use TIME pedals - not sure if they maybe position the foot a bit further out? Must admit I was a bit concerned about the black gloss finish however. May just get R9100 shifters and mechs (cheaper than R8000) then the Ultegra crankset once it becomes available as it appears to be a similar finish to my 6800 one. Decisions.....

svetty

The functional difference between 9000 and 9100 mechanical is minimal - apart from the brakes where the 9100 are noticeably better.

I agree with the bearings vs bushings argument in favour of DA over Ultegra.

If there really is minimal difference in price between 9000 and 9100 I'd get the 9100, otherwise the 9000......

neilr4

I consider myself a Dura-Ace fan, had it on every bike I've owned. Recently crashed and damaged my 9000 rear mech and a mate was selling a set of ultegra R8000 mechs for 60 quid so I bought them to see me through until I got around to purchasing a DA rear.....

Never expected there to be a difference is shifting!!! Must be the design of the new rear mech but the difference is notable........ Will be leaving the ultegra on my bike, no need for DA anymore IMO!

There used to be a difference, was noticeable between 6800 and 9000 but I can't imagine there is anymore!!!

mrb123

There's a GCN video on YouTube at the moment comparing the new Ultegra and DA groups. A bloke from Shimano concedes that the functionality is pretty much identical, the only real difference seems to be weight.

bianchi_dave

MrB123 wrote:

There's a GCN video on YouTube at the moment comparing the new Ultegra and DA groups. A bloke from Shimano concedes that the functionality is pretty much identical, the only real difference seems to be weight.

Watched that the other day - the fact the bloke from Shimano says they are virtually the same (bar weight) carries a lot of, er, weight.

FWIW I went R9100 in the end and certainly don't regret it for the best bike. However, I'm sure I'd have been happy with R8000 and would look at this for 2nd bike when things start need replacing.

ayjaycee

If you're anything like me, buy the Dura Ace if you have any doubts. Otherwise every time you look at the Ultegra equipped bike you will regret not buying it. Personally, I saw no need for Dura Ace and was therefore content with Ultegra 6800 which was the then latest iteration (and still am!).

PS. Just realised you went for DA - well done.

neilr4

ayjaycee wrote:

If you're anything like me, buy the Dura Ace if you have any doubts. Otherwise every time you look at the Ultegra equipped bike you will regret not buying it. Personally, I saw no need for Dura Ace and was therefore content with Ultegra 6800 which was the then latest iteration (and still am!).

This is the dilemma I had when I was stuck between choosing 9000 (mechanical) and 6870 (di2), virtually no price difference but somehow I couldn't get past the difference in looks, the hurdle was tough for some reason and I remember thinking that it would make more sense to purchase ultegra di2 and eventually swap out the chainset and brakes at some stage for Dura ace but then I was like "What the hell am I thinking?" until I realised that having mech DA would bother me less than Ultegra di2 so I went DA 9000 and have no regrets whatsoever!!

I am in no way impressed with the aestethics of 9100, shiney black just doesn't do it for me but maybe it's me who is missing the point of what shimano are trying to convey, actually looks more like 5800, like shimano are saying "Here, there you go, we couldn't be bothered doing anything to it but we slapped some paint on in order to stop it corroding". It is the first DA group that I find underwhelming. In the past I would never have considered putting anything but the best shimano components onto my steed as it would bug and knaw at me everytime I looked at the bike but not anymore. One of the things I've liked about shimano is their continued use of alluminium alloy as their main material...... okay there's some carbon resin used on their shifters and rear derailleurs but I personally don't need to see a carbon weave on my cranks and it's not visible on my wheels or frame either.

DA 9000 was imo the pinnacle aesthesticlly as far as groupsets go. The mixture of black and alloy on the finishing was simply beautiful. 6800 on the otherhand was I found, to be ugly in aesthetically, a no nonsense groupset that done all it was supposed to do but without and form of elegance!! DA 9000 screamed "I love my bike" to the world like a form of expression where as Ultegra 6800 quietly just got on with it. No elegance but done what it was designed to do.

R8000 changed the game (thank God!) . Seeing as shimano have moved away from producing groupsets that are pleasing to the eye R8000 is at least slightly more pleasing than 9100. The shape of the 8000 chainset is slightly different than 9100 and the chiselled looks stand out better by it's duller frosted finish but for me the main area where the new range of shimano mechanical groups exel is in shifting. The brakes are supposedly better but 9000 will do me, I don't feel the need to change them out because of lack of stopping power.