A different TdF?

2

Comments

  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,398
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Maybe I just have rosy memories of how the TdF was, when in fact it was just as boring (1998 aside)... a bit like how summers used to be and they are no longer :-)

    I think you might be experiencing a strong dose of this...
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,398
    RichN95 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    That drives certain behaviours and medalling with the race formula won't change that. Cycling Podcast talked about making it only the yellow jersey, and no rewards for anything but winning. That's how you change it but it's never going to happen
    The problem with the Cycling Podcast suggestion, and others is that they view cycling purely as a sporting event and not as the rider's livelihood. Yesterday they and others were criticising Astana for working for Froome as though they are playing PCM. And imagined tactics always work.
    But in reality Aru is looking for his next contract, hasn't had a big result for a while and has Lopez coming up behind him. He probably has a big mortgage and zero qualifications beyond cycling and Astana will be reviewing their future in the sport. At 27, second behind Froome is a great result - one that guarantees his future.

    The other thing is you never know what's going to happen on the next stage or the one after. Working with Froome meant he put more time into riders in the following group - Froome might fall off and break his foot again, then suddenly it looks a whole lot different.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,398
    TailWindHome wrote:
    I've found the best improvement is to go on holiday for week one.
    Time asking the wife if her wine needs a top up to coincide with the last 10 minutes of each stage.
    Check out the cover of Gazzetta Dello Sport the next morning for a continental vibe

    Been an excellent tour.

    Yep I've basically just been following the spoiler threads, CN live blogs and GIFs of the interesting moments for the first week... Then watched the end of Stage 9 when I got home yesterday, it's been a good first week for me!

    Given how under-hyped this Tour was I think it's managed to exceed that though.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Maybe I just have rosy memories of how the TdF was, when in fact it was just as boring (1998 aside)... a bit like how summers used to be and they are no longer :-)

    I think you might be experiencing a strong dose of this...

    The problem is that my interest for PRO cycling peaked in the era of Pantani, so I really miss those long range attacks followed by mad descents. These fast leg-spinners that come to life in the last 10 minutes of a stage don't really cut it for me... basically it used to be entertaining for an hour or two and now it's down to 10-20 minutes... just feel short changed
    left the forum March 2023
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Maybe I just have rosy memories of how the TdF was, when in fact it was just as boring (1998 aside)... a bit like how summers used to be and they are no longer :-)

    I think you might be experiencing a strong dose of this...

    Nostalgia ain't what it used to be
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    no quiting half way through without a note from their mum.
    FDJ shameful yesterday. OK, Demare was going to struggle but what of the other FDJ riders?
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Maybe I just have rosy memories of how the TdF was, when in fact it was just as boring (1998 aside)... a bit like how summers used to be and they are no longer :-)

    I think you might be experiencing a strong dose of this...

    The problem is that my interest for PRO cycling peaked in the era of Pantani, so I really miss those long range attacks followed by mad descents. These fast leg-spinners that come to life in the last 10 minutes of a stage don't really cut it for me... basically it used to be entertaining for an hour or two and now it's down to 10-20 minutes... just feel short changed

    limit the chainset to 53x42 with 23-11 on the back.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    Whenever this sort of topic gets brought up I also suspect that the proposer would also like to give points for doing wheelies, growing long hair, pretending to cook in adverts and bringing their brother to work.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Maybe I just have rosy memories of how the TdF was, when in fact it was just as boring (1998 aside)... a bit like how summers used to be and they are no longer :-)

    Yeah, stage 17 was an absolute belter...
    _
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    If you want it more exciting, they need to limit coverage to 25 minutes per evening.

    It's always been this boring, you just didn't realise.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    What happens when someone has amassed enough points for it to be all over by the second rest day? I think it's only on forums like this that people would suggest there is anything wrong with the Tour de France.

    Yes some years are better than others (in hindsight maybe) but that's what makes it interesting. I'm quite happy with the way it is.

    I don't understand how people can watch football week in, week out. Now that's repetitive for 99.9% of matches 99.9% of the season.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    iainf72 wrote:
    If you want it more exciting, they need to limit coverage to 25 minutes per evening.

    It's always been this boring, you just didn't realise.

    Being under the age of 16 also helps make it f******* exciting.
    _
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,398
    iainf72 wrote:
    If you want it more exciting, they need to limit coverage to 25 minutes per evening.

    It's always been this boring, you just didn't realise.
    Even if you just stick to the ITV highlights show it seems more exciting.
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    If you want it more exciting, they need to limit coverage to 25 minutes per evening.

    It's always been this boring, you just didn't realise.
    Even if you just stick to the ITV highlights show it seems more exciting.

    Yeah. Live coverage from the off and the want/need of instant notifications from twitter and here probably dull it down.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,760
    The only problem so far has been the long stages aren't long enough. We need more accumulated fatigue.
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,325
    Just realised that winning by thirty second over thousand of kilometres may seem silly, but winning it by a point when you've taken five hours longer to complete the course would be utterly farcical. Loads of supposed GC riders riding to the predicted cut off to save energy on a sprint stage would not add to the spectacle.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    I think the problem is lack of depth in the field.

    Froome has no competition. Porte and Martin should not be GC contenders (I know, that crash). Valverde still better than most who are in their prime.

    I think there is a serious lack of classy GT cyclists right now.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Thoughts?


    2) No part of France is completely flat, maybe the Camargue, but they seem to avoid hills like a pest... how can you have a flat run into Liege (Belgium, I know) ?

    Le Nord is largely flat. The biggest hill within 20km from me would almost be called a false flat.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,791
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Maybe I just have rosy memories of how the TdF was, when in fact it was just as boring (1998 aside)... a bit like how summers used to be and they are no longer :-)

    I think you might be experiencing a strong dose of this...

    The problem is that my interest for PRO cycling peaked in the era of Pantani, so I really miss those long range attacks followed by mad descents. These fast leg-spinners that come to life in the last 10 minutes of a stage don't really cut it for me... basically, it used to be entertaining for an hour or two and now it's down to 10-20 minutes... just feel short changed

    not so sure about memory there. lack of coverage used to make watching cycling feel special. even Eurosport used to fit cycling in with tennis or superbike trimming coverage. just having a few hours made it feel interesting... start to finish coverage is expanding and its distorting memory perceptions.


    last long range of note was Andy Schleck in Cadels tour... Bertie a few times since i guess.

    the 90's tours were pretty drab in comparison. the Vuelta used to be turgid now its a cracker.
    this tour ain't bad. but the Parcours is a bit naff in week one.

    everybody wants to change everything all the time. the last 5-10 years has been some of the best racing i have every seen. not just the tour either. That olympic RR in Rio was amazing! seriously they should make that a WT event

    Its a golden age in some ways. its very rare to get the yellow jersey to yo yo between top contenders but the race is usually super memorable for it... greg/le prof in 89 and Quintana and Dumoulin this year in the giro.


    should have let aru continue his attack.. :twisted: that would have spiced the race up a bit.

    the best Parcours of recent tours are ones of mixed formats. short stages following long hard ones, the cobbles are always welcome. this tour may turn out to be pretty good with 11 stages or so to go.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,791
    Timoid. wrote:
    I think the problem is lack of depth in the field.

    Froome has no competition. Porte and Martin should not be GC contenders (I know, that crash). Valverde still better than most who are in their prime.

    I think there is a serious lack of classy GT cyclists right now.

    froome isn't even at his best and its hard to see who is going to come past him. i think the class is in their heads because they are pretty close performance wise but just not taking advantage.

    I think tom D is a bit special TBH. i want to see froome and him go head to head.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    I think what contributes to the almost boring tactics is the reliance on comms.

    They know who's gone up the road, and who's gone up there with them and how far up the road they are - but then the DS/team captain can compute that info and decide if/when they need to chase and feed that to team members.

    Then there's the feedback from power meters - through repetitive training they know how much power they can put out and for how long - so it all becomes predicable for them - and that's what money does for the racing - makes it all a numbers game.

    What it needs is for more people to mix it up and push out unusual moves - then, if you want to keep team radios then prevent the DS from transmitting - or perhaps from receiving info from outside the actual race* (ie not from twitter/media feeds - only from their team riders in the race) and that'll make the riders need to be more reactionary....

    * in sailing this is called "Outside assistance" and is banned.
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    mididoctors wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    I think the problem is lack of depth in the field.

    Froome has no competition. Porte and Martin should not be GC contenders (I know, that crash). Valverde still better than most who are in their prime.

    I think there is a serious lack of classy GT cyclists right now.

    froome isn't even at his best and its hard to see who is going to come past him. i think the class is in their heads because they are pretty close performance wise but just not taking advantage.

    I think tom D is a bit special TBH. i want to see froome and him go head to head.

    Danielson? A bit past his best for me, Clive.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,791
    Salsiccia1 wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    I think the problem is lack of depth in the field.

    Froome has no competition. Porte and Martin should not be GC contenders (I know, that crash). Valverde still better than most who are in their prime.

    I think there is a serious lack of classy GT cyclists right now.

    froome isn't even at his best and its hard to see who is going to come past him. i think the class is in their heads because they are pretty close performance wise but just not taking advantage.

    I think tom D is a bit special TBH. i want to see froome and him go head to head.

    Danielson? A bit past his best for me, Clive.

    he is going to make a comeback after having a total body and personality transplant
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    mididoctors wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    I think the problem is lack of depth in the field.

    Froome has no competition. Porte and Martin should not be GC contenders (I know, that crash). Valverde still better than most who are in their prime.

    I think there is a serious lack of classy GT cyclists right now.

    froome isn't even at his best and its hard to see who is going to come past him. i think the class is in their heads because they are pretty close performance wise but just not taking advantage.

    I think tom D is a bit special TBH. i want to see froome and him go head to head.
    It'll be interesting what sort of course they have next year. Will it be TT heavy to allow Dumoulin to challenge or will they keep the Soapbox courses for Bardet?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    mididoctors wrote:

    not so sure about memory there. lack of coverage used to make watching cycling feel special. even Eurosport used to fit cycling in with tennis or superbike trimming coverage. just having a few hours made it feel interesting... start to finish coverage is expanding and its distorting memory perceptions.

    .

    I lived in Italy, there was more coverage then than now... some stages had coverage starting at lunch time!
    left the forum March 2023
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,791
    edited July 2017
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:

    not so sure about memory there. lack of coverage used to make watching cycling feel special. even Eurosport used to fit cycling in with tennis or superbike trimming coverage. just having a few hours made it feel interesting... start to finish coverage is expanding and its distorting memory perceptions.

    .

    I lived in Italy, there was more coverage then than now... some stages had coverage starting at lunch time!

    I remember bettini passing out cake on his birthday. everybody stuffed themselves allowing the Linda McCarthy rider David McKenzie to clip off for a solo 200km win
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    ^^ What a time to be alive.
    _
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,791
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    ^^ What a time to be alive.

    it is
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    Cutting team radio seems like a great idea, and I would love to see the number of sprint stages cut down to maybe 3 or 4 max.
    There have been some great stages of the past few years, and it must be easy for organisers to be a bit more creative without over tiring the riders.
    I think changing points system to one of seconds might be an idea, so intermediate sprint actually is a seconds bonus, in fact all points could be swapped out for seconds.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Why not just the whole hog and introduce a handicapping system and be done with it?

    Rather than trying to handicap it by tinkering with routes or teams etc?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.

Categories