eBike Advice!

huskie69

Please be gentle with me! .....

I've recently been forced to reconsider my options as my car has just shat itself and getting it fixed would be uneconmical. Faced with the fact that it costs me nearly £1k a year to insure, and the petrol bill is about £3.5k, I've been thinking about commuting on the bike more often.

I'm a weekend road cyclist and occasionally throw in a commute on the road bike. At the wekeend, I'll usually clock up over a hundered miles with my local club and maybe do a recovery ride the following day.

I have a 25 mile commute to work each way which some days I can face just fine on the road bike and other days it's totally unbearable thanks to ridiculous soul-sapping headwinds.

I'd never even considered an eBike (cheating) as an option (and considering there's no suitable section on this forum yet, it doesn't like like anyone else has!) But surely someone, somewhere must have one!

I've seen various models with different specs and a wide range of prices but I'm really just looking for something I can use a daily commuter, in all weathers, low maintenance and won't crap out on me half way into my ride.

I've got a budget of about £2k and I've seen the Haibike SDURO Hard Seven (MTB) for that exact price. It seems to be the cheapest they do, with a hybrid specific build coming in at £2.1k and something with pannier racks and integrated light at £3.6k (?!!).

So my question really is - would any road cyclists buy an electric MTB for a "flattish" 50 mile round trip? (sounds daft!) but I like the idea of an MTB because I can scrap the lycra and wear some more "normal" clothes and decent waterproofs when it pisses it down (which it does a lot around where I live)! Something that can easily get me through winter is high on my priority and an MTB seems to be a sturdier option over a road bike. However, there are some half decent road ebike alternatives - but they either have components which a sub-standard - by my standards anyway, or are all ridiculously pricey.

To re-iterate (and in my defence!) this is purely something to use for my commute when I can't face 50 miles in the saddle along with a full day at the office.

fenix

Well you still have to pedal - so you'd be best wearing cycling kit.
Your max speed is only 15mph so you'd probably be faster on your normal bike ?
Don't go for the cheapest as you won't have the range.

There must be someone selling them nearby - you need to go have a test ride. And get one with full mudguards too as you're looking at three hours each day on the bike. You want to be comfy.

burnthesheep

Most e-bikes add torque to what you pedal. This doesn't mean it is a "max" speed of something really slow.

If me, I'd research a e-bike that is a drop bar bike. Then to go faster to work and save battery power, I'd wear some fairly aero kit.

fat daddy

huskie69 wrote:

I like the idea of an MTB because I can scrap the lycra and wear some more "normal" clothes and decent waterproofs when it pisses it down.

you do know you can do this on a road bike ..... the lycra thing isn't a requirement, its totally optional

cooldad

Just get a small second hand motorcycle. Probably as cheap.

kingstongraham

burnthesheep wrote:

Most e-bikes add torque to what you pedal. This doesn't mean it is a "max" speed of something really slow.

If me, I'd research a e-bike that is a drop bar bike. Then to go faster to work and save battery power, I'd wear some fairly aero kit.

UK law says that the motor cannot add any assistance over 15.5mph without being classed as a motorbike. Different in different countries.

ugo.santalucia

How flat is your flat commute?

These are made in Holland, they are incredibly fast on the flat (you can average 25 mph without sweating too much), they handle rolling terrain, but they are anchors on anything above 3-4%. They are absolutely beautiful and ideal for winter and bad weather riding. The good thing is that you can cover much longer distances and 50 miles per day should be absolutely fine... not cheap at 6000 euro each, but cheaper than a car and fully pedal powered

benjamess

fat daddy wrote:

huskie69 wrote:

I like the idea of an MTB because I can scrap the lycra and wear some more "normal" clothes and decent waterproofs when it pisses it down.

you do know you can do this on a road bike ..... the lycra thing isn't a requirement, its totally optional

there's a guy who commutes on a roadbike at the time as me in gym wear and I'm fed up of basically seeing his ****hole while in the bent over road bike position, i wish he would purchase some lycra bib shorts.

benjamess

KingstonGraham wrote:

burnthesheep wrote:

Most e-bikes add torque to what you pedal. This doesn't mean it is a "max" speed of something really slow.

If me, I'd research a e-bike that is a drop bar bike. Then to go faster to work and save battery power, I'd wear some fairly aero kit.

UK law says that the motor cannot add any assistance over 15.5mph without being classed as a motorbike. Different in different countries.

yeah I read a review of an e-roadbike and it was meant to be like having the brakes pulled on you when you hit 15.6mph and lose the motor assistance.

AK_jnr

As above. I think I would get a motorbike.

fenix

Lets not be defeatist ! This is an excellent way to get the training in. If you're doing 250 miles a week just to and from work you'll be smashing it at the weekend. OK not every weekend - you may need to save energy for the week - but just think of all of the kit you'll be able to justify ? TT bike for headwind days. Fat bike for snow days. Winter bike for rainy days. It's perfect.

huskie69

The commute is relatively flat except for one of two hills. I can usually average 17-18mph. It's the distance that's a bit of a killer and doing it back to back just knackers me out. I could easily manage a 10 mile commute each way every day (and regularly used to on a hybrid regardless of the weather). But a 25 mile slog both ways in the wind and rain in lycra, and no mudguards (because they're bloody useless and rub against the tyres) on top of a day at work is just knackering. I was considering something to take the edge off the commute that was relatively easy on the wallet (compared to getting another car). At the end of the day, it's a 3 hours in the saddle and anything to make it easier has to be worth considering.

A motorbike isn't really an option (despite my longing to get back into it and my regular eBay perusals at various motorbikes within my budget) - yeah I can pick up a half decent motorbike for about £2k, but then I've got the maintenance costs to contend with, along with fuel (still only get about 40-50mpg on a good day). The last time I had a motorbike, I also had a car for when things went wrong with bike - it's not like I can get the motorbike on the bus or train if it dies on me halfway to work.

Back to eBikes, I'm half tempted with the road bike iterations (like the Giant E xxx) as I can use the spare components I've already got if something goes wrong.

huskie69

benjamess wrote:

fat daddy wrote:

huskie69 wrote:

I like the idea of an MTB because I can scrap the lycra and wear some more "normal" clothes and decent waterproofs when it pisses it down.

you do know you can do this on a road bike ..... the lycra thing isn't a requirement, its totally optional

there's a guy who commutes on a roadbike at the time as me in gym wear and I'm fed up of basically seeing his ****hole while in the bent over road bike position, i wish he would purchase some lycra bib shorts.

fenix

If your mudguards rub against your tyres then sorting that out should be pretty easy. If you've not the clearance for them - then get a proper commuting/winter bike. You say you live somewhere wet but don't have working mudguards ???

huskie69

Fenix wrote:

If your mudguards rub against your tyres then sorting that out should be pretty easy. If you've not the clearance for them - then get a proper commuting/winter bike. You say you live somewhere wet but don't have working mudguards ???

The clearance isn't great so I only used them on club runs when I have to to avoid pissing off other riders. A proper winter/commuting bike is gonna cost money anyway, so why can't it be electric?

fenix

It can be - but electric will be about 4 times the price of 'manual'.

If you start the commuting now you'll be as strong as an ox by the end of summer.

mercia_man

As someone with actual experience of electric bikes, I can really recommend them. Don't be ashamed or embarrassed about considering them. Electric bikes are fantastic for commuting. Don't think of them as cheating. Think of them as a new form of green transport. And they are also a great way for older riders to continue riding with younger friends - and to leave even the fittest Mamil behind on the hills.

My wife bought one on the Bike to Work scheme some years ago for her 28-mile commuting round trip and it paid for itself after 18 months. From then on, she was quids in. As an experienced rider of ordinary bikes, she found the 14-mile uphill return journey home into the Shropshire hills just too much to do every day using only leg power.

The model she had was powered by a Panasonic crank motor which provided the best range you could get at that time - around 50 miles on a new battery on flattish roads using mostly medium power. She now has a German-built Kalkhoff with Gates belt drive, Nexus hub gears and Magura hydraulic rim brakes which gives a claimed range of 125 miles in ideal conditions and a real life range of 75 miles using high boost on our local hilly terrain of Shropshire. The Kalkhoff Impulse motor has the best range and torque on the market, although Bosch-powered bikes are also a good option. But you are talking £2,500-plus. See http://www.50cycles.com for a huge range, including Haibikes.

Don't be tempted by cheap eBikes, many of which are imported from China by here today, gone tomorrow firms. Most have less efficient hub-drive motors with a tiny range of 15 to 30 miles when the battery is new. Maybe fine to stick on the back of your motorhome to pop down the shops from a campsite, but no good for commuting. A crank-driven pedelec from a proper specialist like 50 Cycles is the way to go.

Personally, I would go for a low maintenance flat bar European-style eBike with mudguards, hydraulic discs or rim brakes, a carrier and lights for commuting. An electric mountain bike may have more street cred, if that matters to you, but I would prefer practicality.

As for speed, there is no way I can keep up with my wife on anything but the shortest hills. Even on my 7kg carbon road bike, she leaves me for dead, particularly when she puts her eBike on full power. However, I can catch her up again on the downhills and flats.

6wheels

Had a look on Pedelecs? Plenty of Info on there.

ugo.santalucia

my feeling is that you are still in the mercy of the elements... rain, cold etc... that's why I suggested something different. If you are used to pedalling and the commute is flat, you might as well pedal, I don't think an e-bike will make your commute significantly quicker and you will get used to cover big mileage with a normal bike. It would be different if you had a big hill to climb day in day out, then it would help to have an e-bike...

As it is, you are still on the bike for 3 hours a day

mercia_man

An electric bike won't make the OP's commute quicker as his ride to and from work is relatively flat. But it would enable him to trundle along at 15-16 mph all the time, even into those soul-sapping headwinds that he mentions. He would be getting more exercise than he would in a car but he would not get sweaty and need a shower or change of clothes at work. And he could do this day after day without wearing himself out for his weekend rides.

Electric bikes really do make sense for commuting. But you need to adopt a different mindset from when you are riding a road bike. Assisted power on legal eBikes drops off at 15-16 mph. You just have to accept this. And it's best to adopt a low cadence style of riding. Sophisticated crank-drive models work similarly to a power meter on a road bike. They sense what effort you are putting in and give more assistance if you are pedalling slowly and harder. You get less boost if you spin your legs quickly.

I personally can't see the appeal of "pretend" road bikes like the recently introduced Giant with drop bars and electric motor. I can see how critics might accuse you of being a bit of a Wally on one of those. I can also understand why electric mountain bikes are controversial off road. Best to think of an electric bike as a cheaper and greener alternative to a motorcycle for daily commuting.

I've got an 89-year-old cycling companion who was the first man over 80 to beat the hour for a 25-mile time trial and who still holds something like five national records. I was chatting to him on his regular 50-mile group ride on Saturday (he was on his Colnago) and he was telling me how much he loves his Kalkhoff eBike. He keeps it at his holiday home in the Caribbean because he needs it for the hills there.

veryslowtwitch

Really interesting post.
If OP has the money then I say go for it. 50 mile round trip is huge for a commute and would kill most people. Very few people could comfortably cycle 50 miles and do a regular job every day. If you do 250 miles on weekdays alone then you are unlikely to enjoy the weekend rides because your legs are likely to be shot.

I have tried flat bar ebikes and even a cheap one was fantastic fun and an eye opener.
You could run comfy fat tyres and even spikes in winter which require a huge amount of extra power in snow.
You could also consider wearing normal clothes and would be less sweaty.
No need to be defensive, I think it's a great idea for a long commute. I will get one in the next couple of years for the grim winter days when the headwind and sleet are coming down.
I do a lot of road biking but, like mercia man, I can barely keep up with the local ebike mtb guy on the slightest incline.
If you have 250w on tap then you could run 780mm flat bars and still smash everyone else so you could just accept the non-roadie look and go flat bar with a solid euro-weenie machine.
Please post your experiences if you get an ebike.

huskie69

Thanks everyone, the comments are certainly food for thought.

I'm not intending to smash my commute to work record - I've nailed that at 20mph avg and it nearly killed me. I don't expect to go faster on an ebike and I'm certainly not looking to replace my road bike with a eBike.

I'd like to get to work without coughing and spluttering everywhere (thanks to excercise induced asthma, not helped by the fact that I'm a fat bloke), do a day's work and not dread the return journey home.

I love cycling, I love being on a bike, out in the open, getting fresh air. Does it really matter if my ride is being assisted by a 250w motor? No, becuase I'm not cheating anyone, I'm not out on a club ride where the punishment of the climbs earns you kudos. It would just be a commute to and from work - to get me from A to B and back, relatively easily, hopefully cheaply while still being on a bike turning the pedals.

I primarily cycle to lose weight but I've been at a platueu for the last few years. When I'm cycling, I find I'm always in Zones 4 to 5 which really isn't conducive to weight loss and just contributes to fatigue, large recovery periods and an increased reluctance to do it again! I feel like an eBike might actually be more helpful in shedding the pounds as I won't be over-excerting myself all the time and might actually work in zone 2. Maybe when I've lost more weight, I can consider more regaular commutes on the road bike or do the road bike commute every other day.

Very difficult to decide, a lot to consider and still not a lot of user experiences over extended periods. I'd like to know what they're like during the winter when it's grim and dark and wet.

mercia_man

My wife found that commuting on an electric bike instead of her car helped her to lose weight as well as save money. Her average speed was always the same - as the motor compensates for heavily laden panniers and headwinds.

If you get a European-style eBike with mudguards, chainguard, powerful brakes and excellent built-in lights powered by your battery or hub dynamo, you will be fine for commuting all year round. My wife's experience over several years is that it's not wet as often as you might think during the commuting window. For extra visibility at night - her route included urban and A road country riding - she wore a dayglo reflective vest and fitted an extra flashing rear LED light.

ugo.santalucia

Mercia Man wrote:

My wife's experience over several years is that it's not wet as often as you might think during the commuting window. .

This.

Unless you live in the west coastal areas, it isn't that wet. On average, I probably get wet once every other week... it's more like 3 times in the same week and then dry for a month

fenix

Yes I remember reading this in Richards Bicycle Book - its not often you get wet through rain - sure you may get damp roads but you can fix that with mudguards.

huskie69

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Mercia Man wrote:

My wife's experience over several years is that it's not wet as often as you might think during the commuting window. .

This.

Unless you live in the west coastal areas, it isn't that wet. On average, I probably get wet once every other week... it's more like 3 times in the same week and then dry for a month

Haha.

West? = tick.
Coast? = tick

Wales = deserves a double tick.

It gets wet over here, and winds along the coast are something else.

huskie69

A quick update - just took the plunge and ordered a Haibike SDURO Trekking 5.0.

http://www.haibike.com/en/INT/bikes/276 ... 0748#specs

Seems to fit the bill (although it is almost 3 times the weight of my roadie!)

Has a pannier rack to save my back when I'm lugging about work clobber and it looks like it has integrated lights (very useful as I always forget to charge mine up over winter).

I think it has a 500WH battery (so should get me to work and back, and I can charge it at work if required) and Yamaha motor. I would have loved to afford a belt drive Kalkhoff but my budget really woudn't stretch that far.

Cheaper than getting the car fixed!

ugo.santalucia

It looks like a quality machine... let's put it like this: it's cheaper than a Venge, it's quicker than a Venge, what's not to like about it?

I still prefer the Velomobiel Quest... but hey ho... :-)

huskie69

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It looks like a quality machine... let's put it like this: it's cheaper than a Venge, it's quicker than a Venge, what's not to like about it?

I still prefer the Velomobiel Quest... but hey ho... :-)

I don't think I could get up the hills around here in the quest - and it looks a bit too 'alternative' for me! Having said that, we sometimes have a guy join us on our club rides on a recumbent. He can't always keep pace with us up the hills, but on the flats and descent, he's a speed demon - I can only imagine how much quicker a recumbent would be with an aero shell over it!

mercia_man

I like the look of that. I reckon it's just what you want. And it's got quality components. With a claimed range of 35-65 miles it should be OK for your commutes. But riding into headwinds really uses up juice. And batteries do lose their range as they get older. They are very expensive to replace. My wife used to take her charger with her to work and recharge the battery during the day when her original Panasonic battery couldn't cope with the 28-mile round trip after five years or so.

Keep an eye on chain wear and make sure the chain is kept clean and lubricated. All those extra watts through the cranks will wear out chains and cassettes more quickly than a regular bike.

I'm sure you'll really enjoy the eBike world!

ugo.santalucia

huskie69 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It looks like a quality machine... let's put it like this: it's cheaper than a Venge, it's quicker than a Venge, what's not to like about it?

I still prefer the Velomobiel Quest... but hey ho... :-)

I don't think I could get up the hills around here in the quest - and it looks a bit too 'alternative' for me! Having said that, we sometimes have a guy join us on our club rides on a recumbent. He can't always keep pace with us up the hills, but on the flats and descent, he's a speed demon - I can only imagine how much quicker a recumbent would be with an aero shell over it!

but you said it was flat... :roll:

At the AUK National 400 there was one of those... on the flat they are incredibly fast, like car fast, rather than bike fast. Downhill he said he has reached 70 mph... :shock:

Uphill they are useless, unless you carry enough momentum from a previous descent to overcome a bump