Cervélo R3 2009 Dura Ace vs Focus Izalco Max Etap 2017 - why does the Cervélo feel better?

dileno

Hi all!

I've been riding my awesome Cervélo R3 2009 with mechanical Dura-Ace 7900 for 7 years. That bike is sooo good. I roll alloy clinchers ~ 1315 grams with latex tubes and Conti GP4000SII tyres. Total weight 6.8 kg with pedals.

Recently I've purchased a Focus Izalco Maz with Etap.
Superlight and good bike, I've read lots of good stuff about it and choose it over Cannondale SuperSix Evo & Canyon CF SLX.
It rolls on DT C38 Spline carbon wheels - 1455 grams with tubes and Schwalbe One tyres. Total weight 6.60 kg with pedals.

However, after I've been riding the Focus for 1 week now and got back on the Cervélo for a short ride, I feel quite a difference - the Cervélo is faster, more responsive and the mechanical Dura-Ace shifts better than Etap. The Cervélo also is more comfortable and more forgiving in regards to pot holes, bad road surface etc.

This is not the way it was supposed to be.

Do you think it's only the wheels or is this old Cervélo R3 frame that good? It supposedly weights 100 grams more than the Focus one as well. Etap should shift at least as well as a mechanical Dura-Ace as well?

Will switching wheelset and getting a smaller stem make a better feeling? (Yes but how much better?)

Thanks for all the input I can get.

arlowood

I'm afraid it's difficult for us outsiders to diagnose the difference between the two bikes. The overall feel and ride of a bike tends to be a very subjective thing. Clearly we would all have to ride each one back to back to assess what, if any,differences there were.

Just on a very basic level however - what frame size on each bike are you riding? How does the geometry of each compare in terms of stack and reach. Even small differences in these parameters could affect the feel of one bike vs the other.

dileno

Thanks arlowood!

Yes, it's quite subjective.

Both frame sized are highly comparable. Cervélo 51 and Focus 52.

Cervélo/Focus
Top tube 532/536
BB drop 68/70
Stack 531/520
Reach 369/384 (highest difference - 15 mm - and I feel this right now)

sloppyschleckonds

I had a 2010 & 2011 R3 team & SL. I still maintain they were the best bikes I've ridden. I don't think I've been able to fully replicate the riding position you get on the Cervelo. Wasn't it Squoval tubing or something that Canyon copied? Anyway great frames, just add an up to date groupset and suffer the external cabling.

stueys

I ride an R5 so I'm biased, but I'd say the Cervelo frames are very hard to beat. They manage to combine stiffness with compliance, certainly my R5 was a significant step up from the Canyon Ultimate SLX I had before.

I had DA7900 on my Canyon, I'd take etap in a heart beat over that though.

dileno

Thanks again folks! Indeed the R3 and R5 frames are wonderful. They're rough on the wallet tho

The Etap vs D-A 7900 issue I have to go to my LBS to get fixed I think. But they aren't very good with Etap I realized..

londoncommuter

ppppp

dileno

I switched to a shorter 90 mm stem and the feeling got so much better with the Focus.

Still I have to get used to the slightly slower gear changes with Etap..

fenix

That's fast work - you asked the question after 7 last night and before 8 this morning you've gone and got the shorter stem and tested it ! Impressive !

letap73

dileno wrote:

I switched to a shorter 90 mm stem and the feeling got so much better with the Focus.

Still I have to get used to the slightly slower gear changes with Etap..

Not surprised, the geometry difference between the two is quite a lot - based on the stack and reach figures you posted!

dileno

Fenix: Yes, when I'm out to change something it will go fast Thx! Was our riding 50k this early morning

Letap73: I didn't think there would be this much difference but it was. Much much better and similar feeling to the Cervélo

mr_mojo

I have a 2017 Colnago C60, rides beautifully but not as good as my 13 year old Colnago C50. Just the way it is between different bikes.

dennisn

I'm still marveling at your question "Yes, but how much better?". Before I do the calculations I need to know how you want the answer. Percent(i.e. 30% better)? Times (i.e. 15 times better)? General(i.e. whole bunches better)?

on-yer-bike

I'm still riding my Cervelo R3-SL 2009 (Carlos Sastre) 860 grams. I really like it but I dont find it comfortable on rough roads compared to my C60. There seemed to be a lot of warranty issues with them cracking round the BB but mine is fine and still looks great if not a bit lumpy in places. It was the C60 that cracked but that's another story.

dwanes

This is why I would refrain from buying a very expensive bike or wheels other than for the looks.
You can buy or build up a bike for £1500 that is capable of riding, feeling better, and therefore faster than a £6000 bike.
I couldn't take the risk. Fair play if money is not an issue.