Powerpod power meter

tardyars

After a couple of seasons riding tt- I'm looking at using power to help measure and improve my performance. Given the cost of power meters and the fact that year round I'm running three bikes-I want something that will quickly transfer between them. I am considering using a powerpod as this seems to fit the bill perfectly-it won't cost the earth even with needing speed/cadence sensors on all of my bikes-I'm aware that it won't/ can't be as accurate as a strain gauge system but it's affordable and should be good enough for what I need. I was wondering if there is anyone out there who uses one and whether they would recommend them or not?
Many thanks in advance

ugo.santalucia

If I understand correctly, this one estimates and NOT measures power by taking into account speed, gradient and most likely wind speed.

It is a different proposition from measuring power output by means of strain gauges.

tardyars

Yes-it calculates power through and algorythm so in that respect it is very different to dfpm. I'm wondering if anyone is using one and could give a little feedback?

sloppyschleckonds

tardyars wrote:

Yes-it calculates power through and algorythm

Could you just not use a HRM

meanredspider

I always find this guy very helpful

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/03/pow ... eview.html

timothyw

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If I understand correctly, this one estimates and NOT measures power by taking into account speed, gradient and most likely wind speed.

It is a different proposition from measuring power output by means of strain gauges.

It's certainly a different proposition, but very unfair to claim it 'estimates and not measures'.

If you tend to ride in the same position, then the power accuracy is within the same ballpark accuracy as any direct force power meter, and better than most single sided ones.

DC Rainmaker has a great rep for being a fair reviewer of power meters, and his results with it are excellent.

I got one because I had a store credit windfall and little else to spend it on, it works fine so far as I can tell, although the main thing I found with it was that power meters are of limited benefit to me on my commute.... and riding outside that is rather limited for me with a young kid.

There is a device called a 'powercal' as I recall which is a heart rate strap that also give pseudo power readings - the powerpod is miles and miles better than that.

Heart rate is too affected by caffeine, dehydration, fatigue etc etc.

ugo.santalucia

TimothyW wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If I understand correctly, this one estimates and NOT measures power by taking into account speed, gradient and most likely wind speed.

It is a different proposition from measuring power output by means of strain gauges.

It's certainly a different proposition, but very unfair to claim it 'estimates and not measures'.

If you tend to ride in the same position, then the power accuracy is within the same ballpark accuracy as any direct force power meter, and better than most single sided ones.

DC Rainmaker has a great rep for being a fair reviewer of power meters, and his results with it are excellent.

I got one because I had a store credit windfall and little else to spend it on, it works fine so far as I can tell, although the main thing I found with it was that power meters are of limited benefit to me on my commute.... and riding outside that is rather limited for me with a young kid.

There is a device called a 'powercal' as I recall which is a heart rate strap that also give pseudo power readings - the powerpod is miles and miles better than that.

Heart rate is too affected by caffeine, dehydration, fatigue etc etc.

It doesn't matter how accurate it is... it is an estimate. If I was to place a little fan in front of it, I'd probably get Wiggins' power output

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It doesn't matter how accurate it is... it is an estimate. If I was to place a little fan in front of it, I'd probably get Wiggins' power output

To be fair, you can find ways to fool most powermeters if you want to - even if it's just miscalibrating them.

timothyw

meanredspider wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It doesn't matter how accurate it is... it is an estimate. If I was to place a little fan in front of it, I'd probably get Wiggins' power output

To be fair, you can find ways to fool most powermeters if you want to - even if it's just miscalibrating them.

Yeah. I mean, if you wanted to collect bad data about your ride you could tell your speedometer that you were riding bmx wheels instead of 700c.... or attach your cadence sensor to your wheel... but why would you do that?

proto

TimothyW wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It doesn't matter how accurate it is... it is an estimate. If I was to place a little fan in front of it, I'd probably get Wiggins' power output

To be fair, you can find ways to fool most powermeters if you want to - even if it's just miscalibrating them.

Yeah. I mean, if you wanted to collect bad data about your ride you could tell your speedometer that you were riding bmx wheels instead of 700c.... or attach your cadence sensor to your wheel... but why would you do that?

Cus you want to be a riding god on Zwift

tardyars

Thanks for the comments-I've been using hr zones and it's worked well so far but as somebody has already mentioned it is quite variable and only a guide. I was hoping powerpod would be more constant in terms of measuring effort. Interesting to hear from people who are currently using one-even if it is just on a commute-I intend on using it year round for pretty much all rides as I combine commutes and training rides a couple of times a week. If I'm honest I tend to get a level of sadistic pleasure out of analysing my data! Yes I know-I am on the spectrum

timothyw

Yeah, data-wise it's fascinating, and certainly one of the strengths of the unit.

I mean, with a power meter you only know how hard you were pedalling.

With the powerpod you know your ground and windspeed, accurate incline data, your CDA (up to a point, or with good accuracy if you invest in a dual sided true power meter). It also does a nice gear ratio chart if you're using a cadence computer.

When I use it on my commute, it's interesting just to look at the data even if I haven't had a chance to check my watts on the ride because I was too busy dodging cars.

redvision

TimothyW wrote:

It's certainly a different proposition, but very unfair to claim it 'estimates and not measures'.

If you tend to ride in the same position, then the power accuracy is within the same ballpark accuracy as any direct force power meter, and better than most single sided ones.

Thats the thing though, you want consistent readings from the power meter. Even if the pm reads high or lower, so long as the data is consistent then you can train effectively with it.

The single sided pms are more the adequate for 99% of riders, its only those with a severe power imbalance between legs that could have a few issues. But this is pretty much the only limitation.

What put me off a powerpod was the number of variables which could affect the data. For example, when you become fatigued your position on the bike will change slightly, whilst this wouldn't affect a more traditional pm because it is still reading the force you are applying, it would affect the powerpod reading.Likewise indoor training - can you actually use a powerpod indoor? and didnt DC rainmaker have issues on different surfaces and when trying to use the powerpod in highwinds?

IMO the op would be wise to consider a 4iiii or bepro given they are in the same price range as the powerpod.

benjamess

I'm in the same position as you and decided to go against the powerpod mainly because i ride three bikes;

cx winter / wet weather bike
summer road bike
tt bike

while the winter and summer bike (which i use for most training sessions) have very similar positions but surely as soon as I am on the TT bike in a skinsuit and aero helmet the powerpod will think I'm putting out way more watts and trying to race to power becomes useless?

timothyw

Er nope, you set up a different profile for each bike in which you set your position and the weight of the bike.

It will then fine tune these details via a calibration ride or just through it's normal self-correction procedure.

If you have a dedicated speed sensor for each bike it'll automatically select the right profile, so moving your power meter is as simple as unscrewing it from one bike and putting it on the other.

If you don't have a dedicated speed sensor for each one you have a two minute job of plugging it into your computer and manually selecting a different profile from the list as appropriate.


Oh, i ought add, if you do ride on very wet days, the wind sensor will get blocked with water and it'll stop being accurate, although in my experience this is sufficient wetness that you are unlikely to be on a training ride, shall we say.

benjamess

TimothyW wrote:

Er nope, you set up a different profile for each bike in which you set your position and the weight of the bike.

It will then fine tune these details via a calibration ride or just through it's normal self-correction procedure.

If you have a dedicated speed sensor for each bike it'll automatically select the right profile, so moving your power meter is as simple as unscrewing it from one bike and putting it on the other.

If you don't have a dedicated speed sensor for each one you have a two minute job of plugging it into your computer and manually selecting a different profile from the list as appropriate.


Oh, i ought add, if you do ride on very wet days, the wind sensor will get blocked with water and it'll stop being accurate, although in my experience this is sufficient wetness that you are unlikely to be on a training ride, shall we say.

suppose that could work but any position / kit changes resulting in power increases would leave you wondering if it was due to an actual increase in power or reduction in aerodynamic drag. I still think that for something as aero specific as time trialing I'd rather have a strain gauge type PM.

timothyw

The thing is, for TT you can see it as a positive or a negative thing.

If you move into a more aero position when looking at your powerpod watts, you will see they have increased a bit, but you will presumably know that you are still making the same effort that you were before.

You've now earned some free watts, and more importantly, you know you have.

Conversely, if you sit up a bit, it might show your watts as having reduced. This is your cue to tuck your elbows back in.

Really though, if you want to get serious you should probably combine the powerpod with a 'true' power meter so you can get live CDA data.

burnthesheep

One thing to consider on this unit's cost is that you have to own or buy a separate cadence AND speed sensor for this to work.

So that $300 isn't $300. It's $300 plus the cost of that extra equipment.

Crankarm based units include a cadence sensor in the unit.

The portability is nice, but I decided against because I ride with a front light and sometimes a clip on set of TT bars and the cycle computer up front.

The powerpod would be yet another clamped on device on my bar. Getting kind of ridiculous at that point. Maybe not even enough bar space for all the clamps.

timothyw

You only need the speed sensor. Cadence sensor is optional, although obviously you then don't get cadence data...

You can get an out front mount that takes a garmin on top and powerpod below is, not sure about wahoo and this does obviously cost extra money - still, does mean bar space doesn't have to be a deal breaker.

super_davo

I'm sure a Powerpod has its uses but I just looked on eBay and you can get a second hand Stages for about £220. I bought a second hand 4iii Ultegra recently for £270.
I have 3 different bikes using Hollowtech 2 cranksets and changing left cranks is a 2 minute job. I just leave the pedal on and flip. One of the bikes is 105 so doesn't match but the main two bikes I want it for are both Ultegra. Looks neat & tidy and really easy to set up.
I can't see how accuracy of a Powerpod can compare; things like road surface, positioning, wheels & tyres and how well you're able to calibrate it will all make a difference. Plus you can't use it on a turbo.
I think it sounds a great tool if you also have a power meter for cda analysis and all the wind gubbins, but unless you have serious imbalance I can't see why you wouldn't go for a single sided DFM meter if you're on a budget.

tardyars

I see your point and in an ideal world I'd go with dfpm as they are the most accurate from what I can gather. I have 3 bikes but all have different chainsets-ultegra/ fsa k force light/ fsa neo pro krono! Only other viable option seems to be the bepro pedal system-I did notice on the dc rainmaker review that he reckons these aren't so good for transfering between bikes-nor sure if that's the case. I do wonder how a pedal system will wear with year round use which is what I will be doing (grit grime etc through the winter)-if the bepro system is serviceable with regard to bearings back plates etc. then that could perhaps be a better option in the long run-wonder if I'm asking for a bit much on a low budget?

BmthBloke

Get yourself over to the PP Forum (http://www.ibikeforum.com/index.php)and have a look around and ask some questions. The PP are very helpful and respond very quickly. Also as suggested have a look at the DC Rainmaker review which I believe suggests it compares quite favourably with other power meters but at a fraction of the cost. I would of course like a left/right PM but can't justify the cost nor am I that good a rider.

I did the above and bought one, which I use on multiple bikes. Although I have never used it on a Turbo I believe you can and in fact the software allows you to set it in Turbo mode.

tardyars

Thanks-I will have a look- I'm trying to adjust my finances so that I can go for a twin sided system now-will see how it goes. Powerpod gets a lot of good feedback from what I can gather

StillGoing

BmthBloke wrote:

I would have course like a left/right PM but can't justify the cost nor am I that good a rider.

You don't need to be good to justify owning/using a dual sided power meter.

tardyars

Amen brother!

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Just used the search function to find the most recent Powerpod thread and point out that PBK have 12% off these at the mo, making them £237.59 with "PPD12" code.
http://www.probikekit.co.uk/cycling-pow ... n=11280538

Combine that with 6% Topcashback promo until tomorrow, making it ~£223.
https://www.topcashback.co.uk/probikekit/

Out of the blue, PBK's £300 (less 6% Topcashback) 4iii 105 powercrank meter got me looking at these gizmos, this £223 Powerpod is seriously tempting me as a newcomer to power meter science.

kleinstroker

I've been using for past of couple of weeks and I'm really impressed with the data analysis using the Isaac software. It provides an awful lot of data to analyse, though I'm mostly just going to use it for base training, it even shows you how much energy you waste moving side to side as you pedal.
I got mine dirt cheap from ebay so really chuffed all in all. The only downside is I can now see how crap I am