Anyone commute year round on tubs?

greg66_tri_v2.0

Contemplating it...

Really enjoyed the Boras while the weather was warm. Really really really. The stuff about tubs having better ride quality? It's like the Han Solo scene in The Force Awakens: "I used to wonder about that myself. Thought it was a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. A magical power holding together good and evil, the dark side and the light. Crazy thing is... it's true. The Force. The Jedi. Tubulars* ... All of it... It's all true."

With the return to regular summer conditions I hauled out Bike 2 with its hitherto lovely Shamals, pumped them to 100 and thought "this will be fine".

Well, durrr, it wasn't. It felt like I was riding in mud. So that evening I put them to 120 and it felt better but the ride quality was, well, politely, jiggly. Really jiggly. Just not nice.

So here I am, once again through the application of very dubious male cyclist logic, contemplating the use of tubs year round and throwing the Shamals in a skip.

Upsides: I carry a bag on my commute so carrying a spare tub is a piece of cake. Say goodbye to pinch flats, to crappy tyre changes (it's true what they say about changing a tub - it's a lot easier and faster than changing a clincher). Gluing is strangely therapeutic.

Downsides: tubs are expensive to replace (but can be repaired by mail order cheaply). Braking in the wet. The really massive one. But Campag have announced some new carbon braking surface (AC3) which is supposed to be fab. Braking in the proper wet on the Boras is nerve racking at best, but I was unpleasantly surprised to be reminded that braking in the proper wet on alu rims isn't that great either.

Upsides and downsides rolled into one: I get an expensive pair of new wheels!


*OK, so maybe he didn't use the actual word "tubulars", but I don't think there can be any doubt about what he was really talking about.


Next up: Campagnolo or Shimano? YOU decide!

spasypaddy

ive contemplated it a few times, i have a pair of hope hubs i need to build up on something and a few pairs of tubs lying around that need putting on rims. Was going to build them on some hed belgium tubular rims:
http://www.wheelbuilder.com/hed-belgium ... r-rim.html

i would get rims with an alu braking surface though, and tape. i'd tape them...

also if you're running 11 speed it doesnt matter whether its shimano or campag

fenix

Depends on the commute and your wallet tbh.

If there's lots of debris and glass and you're getting flats a lot - then I'd rather be on a pair of tough marathon pluses with a higher assurance that I'll be in work on time rather than faffing around at the side of the road.

greg66_tri_v2.0

The Campag vs Shimano was a reference to the second of the holy trinity of never-ending cycling debates, of which clinchers vs tubs is the first. I would never sully myself with ShimaNO. It's CampagYESlo all the way.

And tape? Urgh! I once had to clean a paid of tubs which had tape residue all over them. It's like trying to wipe the arse of a dog that's been eating superglue and has dysentery.

spasypaddy

ok but you should look at the quality of the tubs on your boras vs the clinchers and the inner tubes on your shamals. latex tubes could transform the ride.

and what tubs would you commute on?

itboffin

mind explaining how you'd get a pinch flat with 120 psi in the tyre?

have you gained that much weight?

greg66_tri_v2.0

spasypaddy wrote:

ok but you should look at the quality of the tubs on your boras vs the clinchers and the inner tubes on your shamals. latex tubes could transform the ride.

and what tubs would you commute on?

Good points. TConti Race inners, so butyl.

Clincher tyres are Michelin Pro4s, which I've ridden for years. Tubs are Veloflex Record Carbons, which I'd run year round (relatively cheap from Acycles.com and will take two repairs happily). I've run the tub version of the Michelins and they ran well; not quite as nice as the Veloflexes but better than the Pro4 clinchers. But yes, the tubs are better quality than the clinchers in this comparison full stop, and the clinchers then get the butyl inners handicap.

Hmm.

greg66_tri_v2.0

itboffin wrote:

mind explaining how you'd get a pinch flat with 120 psi in the tyre?

have you gained that much weight?

I'm fucking massive now man. Huge. Got this eating thing, and I just can't stop.

Hit a piece of exposed ironworks edge on and you can still pop an inner at pretty high pressures. Makes for an exciting couple of seconds too!

(the real reason is that clinchers plus butyl hold air fairly well so it's easy to miss that they are losing pressure over time. You start at 120 then after a couple of weeks they're down to 75 and because it's been gradual you don't notice).

itboffin

why not meet in the middle and go road tubeless on the Campag 2 way fit wheelset of your choice using the Vittoria Corsa speed which have a lower rolling resistance than tubs apparently http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/vittoria-corsa-speed-2016

same feel if not better and PF protection

New Shamal ultra 2 way fit
https://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/campagnolo-shamal-ultra-2-way-fit-wheelset.html

greg66_tri_v2.0

itboffin wrote:

why not meet in the middle and go road tubeless on the Campag 2 way fit wheelset of your choice using the Vittoria Corsa speed which have a lower rolling resistance than tubs apparently http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/vittoria-corsa-speed-2016

same feel if not better and PF protection

New Shamal ultra 2 way fit
https://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/campagnolo-shamal-ultra-2-way-fit-wheelset.html

Cooooosssss...

Dunno. Sounds like change of the sort I don't like. Haven't ridden tubeless so don't really know whether that would work for me. Best of both worlds or falling between two stools?

itboffin

i'm undecided myself, at least 4 of my 15 wheelsets are tubeless ready but can i be arsed to change? nah!

the roads around here pretty are much only good for heavy duty wheels and tread now unless you want to spend your weekends at the LBS getting wheels trued and spending ££££ on yet more inner tubes.

besides come Monday (when i start my new job) i'll be mostly driving to and from work, erm in my new Audi

got tired of BMW :roll:

spasypaddy

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

ok but you should look at the quality of the tubs on your boras vs the clinchers and the inner tubes on your shamals. latex tubes could transform the ride.

and what tubs would you commute on?

Good points. TConti Race inners, so butyl.

Clincher tyres are Michelin Pro4s, which I've ridden for years. Tubs are Veloflex Record Carbons, which I'd run year round (relatively cheap from Acycles.com and will take two repairs happily). I've run the tub version of the Michelins and they ran well; not quite as nice as the Veloflexes but better than the Pro4 clinchers. But yes, the tubs are better quality than the clinchers in this comparison full stop, and the clinchers then get the butyl inners handicap.

Hmm.

yeah so... not really a fair comparison.

greg66_tri_v2.0

There's no room for fairness in any of this.

jgsi

Yes.

greg66_tri_v2.0

JGSI wrote:

Yes.

At last.

What are the three biggest drawbacks?

roubaixmb

Tubeless tubulars

jgsi

None for me.
Cheap Vittoria Rally tubs off Wiggle.
I'd puncture if I was riding on clinchers.
Twice punctured in a year - ripping a tyre off and putting one back on knowing it will inflate, so back riding within 5 minutes.

greg66_tri_v2.0

JGSI wrote:

None for me.
Cheap Vittoria Rally tubs off Wiggle.
I'd puncture if I was riding on clinchers.
Twice punctured in a year - ripping a tyre off and putting one back on knowing it will inflate, so back riding within 5 minutes.

Ta. V helpful.

If the review of this new Campag braking surface in the wet is positive, I'm sold*.


*The opposite, of course. I'm buying. Kerching!

itboffin

pics or it didnt happen

mind you a couple of years ago in the Pyrenees this ex pro fella who joined us on a ride, punctured his tub but still rode to the summit then whilst chatting swapped it over and processed to descend without a care in the world, clearly not his first time.

greg66_tri_v2.0

itboffin wrote:

pics or it didnt happen

mind you a couple of years ago in the Pyrenees this ex pro fella who joined us on a ride, punctured his tub but still rode to the summit then whilst chatting swapped it over and processed to descend without a care in the world, clearly not his first time.

There will be pics ... in due course. I want first to hear about whether this new Campag braking surface in the wet lives up to the hype. Then I may have to wait for a money when the Chief Fun Extinguisher and Dream Crusher is looking the other way.

I've ridden a little bit on a flat tub. It's ok. And there's no rim/hook thing to deform.

ugo.santalucia

1) You can go the cheap route, Rally and the likes, but then I question the benefits over equally cheap clinchers.
2) there is an environmental argument in throwing away a cheap tubular because it is punctured, assuming you won't fix it, as it's more expensive than buying a new one.
3) If you go the other route, the expensive one, then it will be more expensive than running clinchers... could end up being more expensive than public transport
4) while replacing the tyre on the road is easy, the all faff around making a permanent repair is pretty daunting
5) Spare tubulars are significantly larger than spare inner tubes

6) Most important point... WHY?

itboffin

its Greg that's WHY

there's NO hope for him

greg66_tri_v2.0

ugo.santalucia wrote:

1) You can go the cheap route, Rally and the likes, but then I question the benefits over equally cheap clinchers.
2) there is an environmental argument in throwing away a cheap tubular because it is punctured, assuming you won't fix it, as it's more expensive than buying a new one.
3) If you go the other route, the expensive one, then it will be more expensive than running clinchers... could end up being more expensive than public transport
4) while replacing the tyre on the road is easy, the all faff around making a permanent repair is pretty daunting
5) Spare tubulars are significantly larger than spare inner tubes

6) Most important point... WHY?

1) not interested in cheap tubs.
2) environmental arguments? Well, moving on...
3) more expensive than PT? Are you high? Possibly more expensive in the long run than clinchers and tubes but it's the cheap mattress/office chair point.
4) permanent repair is "place in envelope to Browns Tubulars".
5) yes, and that's the biggest drawback to riding tubs at the weekend. But in the week I have a bag every day with lots of spare space.

6) see ITB's post. And tubs + nice wheels = enjoyment.

ugo.santalucia

Well, you have managed to convince yourself that it's a good idea, so go for it

First.Aspect

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

itboffin wrote:

pics or it didnt happen

mind you a couple of years ago in the Pyrenees this ex pro fella who joined us on a ride, punctured his tub but still rode to the summit then whilst chatting swapped it over and processed to descend without a care in the world, clearly not his first time.

There will be pics ... in due course. I want first to hear about whether this new Campag braking surface in the wet lives up to the hype. Then I may have to wait for a money when the Chief Fun Extinguisher and Dream Crusher is looking the other way.

I've ridden a little bit on a flat tub. It's ok. And there's no rim/hook thing to deform.

Of course the new braking surface won't live up to the hype. It'll be just slightly less bad. In the wet your brakes will feel like two bars of soap, before biting with enough venom to launch you over the taxi that's just pulled out in front of you. Think of it as a safety feature.

But the wheels WILL be more expensive and may make as much noise as an Airzound in the dry.

In answer to your next question, yes they do sh!t in the woods.

super_davo

Can recommend Vittoria Corsa Elite as a "mid-range" tub that would be perfect for the job. I use as training tyres and grip well, wear well and roll well. Sure Corsa G+ are marginally faster but not a lot in it and then you're looking at £25-30 for a replacement and not £70ish.