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Direct Drive Turbo or not

dannbodgedannbodge Posts: 927
I'm looking at getting a smart Turbo as I want to start doing FTP tests and Zwift etc.

I've had two options playing in my mind, Either:

Sell my spare wheels and buy the Tacx Flux
or
Keep my spare wheels, put a turbo tyre on and get the Tacx Vortex.

What would people recommend?
With selling my spare wheels they are about the same price and although I'm not concerned with noise I would like to make as little as possible.

For around the same price as the Flux, can anyone recommended anything else?

Posts

  • fat daddyfat daddy Posts: 2,632
    I much prefer a direct drive ... nothing sucks like getting a puncture on a turbo. And its more reliable with calibration, quieter, easier to leave the bike mounted.

    That said I use one with a wheel roller as I tend to swap bikes around on it a lot, so it needs to take multiple bikes.

    riding enjoyment is the same, its purely the ability to use multiple bikes or less calibration, noise etc
  • meanredspidermeanredspider Posts: 12,550
    The Neo has been great for simulating steep and slow climbs. My old Fortius would do what it called something like virtual power (or something similar) because it didn't have the ability to generate low speed braking torque. In effect, it would deliver less resistance but also show a lower speed (like giving you an even shorter gear). I'd also get wheel slip. As above, direct is just a lot easier, cleaner and less fuss - it's just the money....
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    Elite Turbo Muin direct drive - similar price to the Flux eg here:
    https://www.merlincycles.com/elite-turb ... 68267.html

    Or the Elite Kura for a little bit more but has a true power meter:
    https://www.athleteshop.co.uk/elite-tra ... meter-muin


    I've got a turbo muin with smart sensor to give close approximation of watts (certainly more consistent than non-direct drive turbos as there is no question over rolling resistance/tyre pressure etc). Quiet (although I have little to compare with) and very powerful - never slips, more than ample resistance.

    You just have to use a little imagination and shift gears when playing zwift.

    Of course, you might think it's worth paying the extra for the resistance to change (and ERG mode that targets a set power for you by varying the resistance).

    Really though, unless you already have a turbo that you use or specific targets I wouldn't spend much as you'll probably find it very tough to motivate yourself to get on the bloody thing - most people do (particularly when it's so nice outside!)
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    timothyw wrote:
    Elite Turbo Muin direct drive - similar price to the Flux eg here:
    https://www.merlincycles.com/elite-turb ... 68267.html

    Or the Elite Kura for a little bit more but has a true power meter:
    https://www.athleteshop.co.uk/elite-tra ... meter-muin


    I've got a turbo muin with smart sensor to give close approximation of watts (certainly more consistent than non-direct drive turbos as there is no question over rolling resistance/tyre pressure etc). Quiet (although I have little to compare with) and very powerful - never slips, more than ample resistance.

    You just have to use a little imagination and shift gears when playing zwift.

    Of course, you might think it's worth paying the extra for the resistance to change (and ERG mode that targets a set power for you by varying the resistance).

    Really though, unless you already have a turbo that you use or specific targets I wouldn't spend much as you'll probably find it very tough to motivate yourself to get on the bloody thing - most people do (particularly when it's so nice outside!)

    Plus 1 for the Elite Kura. I had the Tacx Bushido Smart and it wasn't a patch even on the Tax iFlow I had before it. The Kura as a fluid trainer with direct drive is much more realistic in feel. I use it with Zwift and concentrate more on my own individual power rather than wishing I had auto resistance. The inbuilt power meter is on a par with the Power2max fitted to the main bike. The big bonus is it has no mains connection creating its own power from your pedalling, meaning I can use it outside on days like today for that extra bit of torture.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • MiddleRingerMiddleRinger Posts: 678
    Direct drive. I'd never go back to a wheel-on turbo now.

    Also if you're planning on using Zwift or other smart software, be sure you get a proper smart turbo trainer. Sure you can use your gears to simulate inclines and what not (I did for a while) but it doesn't even come close to the feeling of automatic gradient changes on a quality smart trainer. Plus ERG mode makes is much easier to stay in a certain power zone for targeted training sessions and intervals.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    Direct drive. I'd never go back to a wheel-on turbo now.

    Also if you're planning on using Zwift or other smart software, be sure you get a proper smart turbo trainer. Sure you can use your gears to simulate inclines and what not (I did for a while) but it doesn't even come close to the feeling of automatic gradient changes on a quality smart trainer. Plus ERG mode makes is much easier to stay in a certain power zone for targeted training sessions and intervals.

    Trainers like the Kura with an inbuilt power meter do help get around it, by allowing you to see your actual power output. You can have the read out as instant, 3s, 5s or even 10s average. I manage to do the training programs without issue using 3s average as admittedly, instant is too hard for me to control within set power. But yes, most users will utilise auto power/resistance. I'm not a fan when auto resistance helped knacker my knee using the Bushido Smart. That's more to do with the terrible slippage that turbo suffered with.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • dannbodgedannbodge Posts: 927
    I'd rather have a smart one that has the auto resistance rather than me having to use the gears etc.

    If I was going to do that I'd just use my normal turbo and change the resistance myself.
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    In which case, personally I think it's time to sell your wheels.... Look at it this way, you won't need a spare rear wheel with direct drive!

    One final question to consider is how much do you weigh? The incline simulation that most smart trainers can offer is fairly limited if you're a big lad - coming out at just a few % tops.

    This was another factor in me just going for the bog standard turbo muin.
  • dannbodgedannbodge Posts: 927
    I'm around 70kg, so not very big
  • dannbodgedannbodge Posts: 927
    Decided on getting the Flux.

    Found it for just over £520 online from a shop.
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 8,643
    dannbodge wrote:
    Decided on getting the Flux.

    Found it for just over £520 online from a shop.

    Fine work, where was that from?
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • dannbodgedannbodge Posts: 927
    https://www.nrgcycles.co.uk/63567/produ ... Als38P8HAQ

    With price match and cashback I can get it for less than £500 now
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,086
    philthy3 wrote:
    Direct drive. I'd never go back to a wheel-on turbo now.

    Also if you're planning on using Zwift or other smart software, be sure you get a proper smart turbo trainer. Sure you can use your gears to simulate inclines and what not (I did for a while) but it doesn't even come close to the feeling of automatic gradient changes on a quality smart trainer. Plus ERG mode makes is much easier to stay in a certain power zone for targeted training sessions and intervals.

    Trainers like the Kura with an inbuilt power meter do help get around it, by allowing you to see your actual power output. You can have the read out as instant, 3s, 5s or even 10s average. I manage to do the training programs without issue using 3s average as admittedly, instant is too hard for me to control within set power. But yes, most users will utilise auto power/resistance. I'm not a fan when auto resistance helped knacker my knee using the Bushido Smart. That's more to do with the terrible slippage that turbo suffered with.

    i ve been looking at the Kura but it doesnt sound like its a Smart trainer at all ? more like my current older non smart Vortex that gives power/cadence/speed.
    I cant see the point in it tbh, might as well buy a PT wheel and a cheap turbo, you can use the wheel out on the road too.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    mamba80 wrote:
    philthy3 wrote:
    Direct drive. I'd never go back to a wheel-on turbo now.

    Also if you're planning on using Zwift or other smart software, be sure you get a proper smart turbo trainer. Sure you can use your gears to simulate inclines and what not (I did for a while) but it doesn't even come close to the feeling of automatic gradient changes on a quality smart trainer. Plus ERG mode makes is much easier to stay in a certain power zone for targeted training sessions and intervals.

    Trainers like the Kura with an inbuilt power meter do help get around it, by allowing you to see your actual power output. You can have the read out as instant, 3s, 5s or even 10s average. I manage to do the training programs without issue using 3s average as admittedly, instant is too hard for me to control within set power. But yes, most users will utilise auto power/resistance. I'm not a fan when auto resistance helped knacker my knee using the Bushido Smart. That's more to do with the terrible slippage that turbo suffered with.

    i ve been looking at the Kura but it doesnt sound like its a Smart trainer at all ? more like my current older non smart Vortex that gives power/cadence/speed.
    I cant see the point in it tbh, might as well buy a PT wheel and a cheap turbo, you can use the wheel out on the road too.

    Kura is a smart trainer, it just doesn't have ERG mode. It's advantages over what you suggest is that it is also a fluid trainer and direct mount with an inbuilt power meter. A smart trainer isn't simply a trainer that can "replicate" inclines on a software program. A direct mount trainer doesn't suffer with wheel slippage either. Your choice though.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,086
    So it can be controlled via a 3rd party app or say follow a preloaded course on a Garmin? unless i ve got it completely wrong, the Kura doesnt allow this.

    yep def big benefits for a direct mount, i m fed up with flat tires and slippage :(
  • norvernrobnorvernrob Posts: 1,448
    It might be worth having a look at the new Elite Direto, which should be released within the next month or two.

    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/07/eli ... ds-on.html
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    mamba80 wrote:
    So it can be controlled via a 3rd party app or say follow a preloaded course on a Garmin? unless i ve got it completely wrong, the Kura doesnt allow this.

    yep def big benefits for a direct mount, i m fed up with flat tires and slippage :(

    It can work with any program, but what it won't do is auto resistance. Because of the inbuilt power meter, programs convert the power to speed based on your body weight etc. So if there's an incline and you're doing 200 watts along the flat at 20+ mph, your speed will reduce unless you change gear and put out more watts to maintain the speed.

    The Elite Drivo is roughly twice the price of the Kura for auto resistance and ERG mode. Plus you have to plug it in while the Kura power is generated by the rider. The Direto has a smaller flywheel than the Kura and price wise sits between the Kura and the Drivo.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • courtmedcourtmed Posts: 162
    dannbodge wrote:

    Any more details on the price match/cashback available? :D

    I'm in a similar sort of position - I'm happy & able to pay a fair amount for a trainer as it'll get plenty of use. I want to able to use Zwift/TrainerRoad fully so it needs to be smart & controllable. I'll only really be using it with the one bike, but that bike has disc brakes & 12x142 thru-axles so I'll need to be able to source an adapter. I'd basically narrowed it down to paying the c£100 more for the Flux over the Kickr Snap to have a direct drive one. Also the lack of calibration needed with the Flux appealed to me.

    However - I've now seen the Elite Direto & that's thrown a right spanner in the works :mrgreen:
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    Get the Direto. If I hadn't of bought the Kura, I'd have gone for one. In all reviews so far, it gets very highly rated.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • dannbodgedannbodge Posts: 927
    courtmed wrote:
    dannbodge wrote:

    Any more details on the price match/cashback available? :D

    I'm in a similar sort of position - I'm happy & able to pay a fair amount for a trainer as it'll get plenty of use. I want to able to use Zwift/TrainerRoad fully so it needs to be smart & controllable. I'll only really be using it with the one bike, but that bike has disc brakes & 12x142 thru-axles so I'll need to be able to source an adapter. I'd basically narrowed it down to paying the c£100 more for the Flux over the Kickr Snap to have a direct drive one. Also the lack of calibration needed with the Flux appealed to me.

    However - I've now seen the Elite Direto & that's thrown a right spanner in the works :mrgreen:

    Cashback was an offer through my Employer @ 8% for Evans.

    Ended up getting it from Hargroves in the end for £585. NRG have gone up to £560.

    I'm very happy with it. Calibration takes about 30 seconds and the manual recommends you do it every start up.

    My only grievance is that you have to re-index your gears when you put it on the trainer, compared to my normal back wheel. I haven't bothered so it just means I can't get my 11 or 28 gear, plus the drivetrain makes a bit more noise than normal.
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