Did I get the right size: with added photos!
londoncommuter
Posts: 1,550
I agonised for weeks over buying this frame and now every single ride all I can think about is did I make the right decision. It's really ruining my enjoyment of the new build. It's a 51cm Kinesis Gran Fondo Ti V3 and I'm 5'8'' (1.74m).
Looking at the exposed seatpost and the look of a 10mm spacer does this look "right"?
Kinesis' size on the seat tube and their height chart puts me at the top end of a 54cm and even onto a 55.5cm which is crazy. I rang them at the time but got terrible advice including gems like "stack and reach are for mountain bikes" and "stack will be affected by what tyres you run"! The shops I went to were equally hopeless and none offered me a firm opinion.
Reach = 390.6mm v's 390.2mm
Stack = 534mm v's 560mm
The issue I had was, despite the shortish head tubes, the stack is pretty high on these as the forks are long to accommodate 28c tyres with proper mudguards. I thought at the time that even slammed the 54cm would have been too upright although I've now got a 10mm spacer on the 51cm and wonder whether I'd spend more time in the drops had I actually gone for a 54cm.
The weird bit is the reach is the same on the 51cm and 54cm so although the ETT is larger it makes no difference as it's swallowed up by the slacker seatpost angle. I'm using a set back seatpost on the 51cm whereas I'd have run a zero one on the 54cm to keep my knees the same distance ahead of the BB so the distance from saddle to bars would have been exactly the same.
The head angle is slightly slacker on the 54cm though which gives a tiny bit less toe overlap on the front. With full mudguards you do have to watch that so, forgetting fit, there are advantages for going up a size.
Guessing the 51cm is slightly stiffer though and it's 100g lighter.
The bike is great, it's just somehow I can't properly enjoy it until I know it was the right size.
As an aside, is the stupidest winter build you've seen? Dura Ace shifters, Fizik Cyrano 00 bars, 3T Ltd seatpost, Bontrager RXXXL bottle cages, titanium wheel skewers. I did economise on a SRAM 1130 chain to keep the cost down. Daft.
Looking at the exposed seatpost and the look of a 10mm spacer does this look "right"?
Kinesis' size on the seat tube and their height chart puts me at the top end of a 54cm and even onto a 55.5cm which is crazy. I rang them at the time but got terrible advice including gems like "stack and reach are for mountain bikes" and "stack will be affected by what tyres you run"! The shops I went to were equally hopeless and none offered me a firm opinion.
Reach = 390.6mm v's 390.2mm
Stack = 534mm v's 560mm
The issue I had was, despite the shortish head tubes, the stack is pretty high on these as the forks are long to accommodate 28c tyres with proper mudguards. I thought at the time that even slammed the 54cm would have been too upright although I've now got a 10mm spacer on the 51cm and wonder whether I'd spend more time in the drops had I actually gone for a 54cm.
The weird bit is the reach is the same on the 51cm and 54cm so although the ETT is larger it makes no difference as it's swallowed up by the slacker seatpost angle. I'm using a set back seatpost on the 51cm whereas I'd have run a zero one on the 54cm to keep my knees the same distance ahead of the BB so the distance from saddle to bars would have been exactly the same.
The head angle is slightly slacker on the 54cm though which gives a tiny bit less toe overlap on the front. With full mudguards you do have to watch that so, forgetting fit, there are advantages for going up a size.
Guessing the 51cm is slightly stiffer though and it's 100g lighter.
The bike is great, it's just somehow I can't properly enjoy it until I know it was the right size.
As an aside, is the stupidest winter build you've seen? Dura Ace shifters, Fizik Cyrano 00 bars, 3T Ltd seatpost, Bontrager RXXXL bottle cages, titanium wheel skewers. I did economise on a SRAM 1130 chain to keep the cost down. Daft.
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Comments
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If we're going by looks alone then it looks fine to me, it's not like you've got a big stack under the stem, if it's comfortable then it's all good.
Nice winter/rain bike.0 -
Bike looks great!
IMHO, nothing looks weird about your seatpost + handlebar/stem -- they look like textbook examples of well setup/properly-sized bike. I reckon you've made the right choice. (If anything, if you sized up, sloping top tube frames look weird with minimal seatpost showing.)
If you're really bothered about spending more time in the drops, you could try a 0-degree stem (or flipping your current stem.) But if you're comfortable on the hoods + tops then I wouldn't bother.
Bike looks great!0 -
That looks great to me . I am not sure about the white rims.0
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That looks good to me too, but the question you have to ask yourself is - "Are we all lying???"
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Looks just dandy.0
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For my experience you got the correct size, and your bike looks great.0
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lesfirth wrote:That looks great to me . I am not sure about the white rims.
Many thanks for all of your comforting words so far. It does make a difference.
The one guy who I kind of listened to in a shop popped out of the workshop for 30 seconds and said "if that's the height you have your seatpost then it will look better". No thoughts on optimum hip angle blah de blah, just that it would look less cool on a 54cm!
On the white rims, completely agree, but I couldn't resist the clearance Superstar had on them.0 -
How can anyone form an opinion on whether a bike is the right size for you without seeing you on it. Get it on a trainer and take some short side on photos/videos and stick em up.
Edit: Also, bike size is mostly about getting your bum and legs in the right place. Hands/reach/stack can be adjusted a lot more with stem length/angle.0 -
If it fits you then brill, aesthetically it looks bob on. So I'd say yes, you bought the right size.Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
ABCC Cycling Coach0 -
Looks spot on to me - you could maybe go for bars with a smaller drop if you really really really want to get rid of the 10mm spacer?0
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lesfirth wrote:That looks great to me . I am not sure about the white rims.
Same, other than the rims looks sweetGET WHEEZY - WALNUT LUNG RACING TEAM™0 -
Position is fine, spotty dog.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Joshgav wrote:How can anyone form an opinion on whether a bike is the right size for you without seeing you on it. Get it on a trainer and take some short side on photos/videos and stick em up.
Can't believe how unnatural I look posing on a turbo. Hopefully in real life zooming along the road at 40mph I look much cooler. What do you reckon, still the right size?0 -
The geometry of that frame is strange. The smaller frames have very long top tubes in comparison to seat tubes, and very steep seat tube angles.
This means that the 54 cm frame actually has a *shorter* reach than the 51cm frame, so it you went up a size the tip of seat to bar would be damn near the same, taking the slacker seat tube into account. The only effective difference between the two is the stack, which is a big jump (+2 1/2 cm) from the 51 to the 54.
Thereafter the geo looks pretty normal, but personally I'd have taken one look at that size chart and gone for a different brand entirely. I just can't fathom that series of sizing for the smaller frames at all.
If you are feeling like the bars are too low, I'd go up a size, because the only other main difference is that you'd have less seat post showing, which is a non issue. On the other hand if you are feeling like you want the bars even lower, or if you are already feeling a bit "cramped" then you've chosen the wrong model of bike I'm afraid.
As others have said, your position looks okay, but only you know if its comfortable.0 -
First Aspect wrote:The geometry of that frame is strange. The smaller frames have very long top tubes in comparison to seat tubes, and very steep seat tube angles.
I agree completely about it being strange. Kinesis mumbled something about Dom Mason specing the geometry so it must be right!
I don't understand why the reach wouldn't go up consistently with size. I guess a larger rider would generally sit further back so that larger ETT would have an effect on their distance from saddle to bars. For a given rider trying to decide between sizes it's rubbish though as ETT is irrelevant. Cervelo had a nice article somewhere saying this was daft and reach should go up in nice uniform steps as frame size increases.
As you said, I would have just gone for a different frame altogether. I wasn't impressed by Kinesis when asking for help on this (or all the parts that were missing when my frame arrived), felt there was a big gap between these frames (they've slotted a 55.5cm between the 54cm and 57cm but aren't rolling out a 52.5cm) and the dealer support wasn't great. I got a great deal though so couldn't turn it down.
I'd have loved a Reilly but the jump in price was just too much. Maybe short sighted I guess if it means I would have been happier with the bike for the next ten years. Suppose this gives me an excuse to sell and start another new build......
Anyway, enough waffle from me. Any more opinions on how ungainly I look on the bike?
Hopefully this thread might help others eventually as I know when I was looking there was a lot of uncertainty on these as you'd not normally go near a 51cm at my height but they are larger than you'd assume.0 -
londoncommuter wrote:Joshgav wrote:How can anyone form an opinion on whether a bike is the right size for you without seeing you on it. Get it on a trainer and take some short side on photos/videos and stick em up.
Can't believe how unnatural I look posing on a turbo. Hopefully in real life zooming along the road at 40mph I look much cooler. What do you reckon, still the right size?
Size looks ok. There should be some adjustability for reach and height if you need to stretch out more (longer stem).
Your hip angle looks quite closed (tight) and legs come quite close into torso, you may benefit from a shorter crank. What length have you got on?0 -
send it back and get the 54.0
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Joshgav wrote:
Size looks ok. There should be some adjustability for reach and height if you need to stretch out more (longer stem).
Your hip angle looks quite closed (tight) and legs come quite close into torso, you may benefit from a shorter crank. What length have you got on?
170mm but I do have tiny legs so always wondered if I should go smaller.darkhairedlord wrote:send it back and get the 54.
Oh no. Why so certain?
Unfortunately, it's not an option to send back as it's been used now. I'd have to sell and stump up the post-Brexit price hike amount. Was pondering if frame only / no test ride sellers should be forced to have a right size guarantee.0 -
darkhairedlord wrote:send it back and get the 54.
Oh no. Why so certain?
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if you bend your elbows you'll get the extra reach and have a more comfortable ride in the drops but you'll be too low and your knees will start hitting your chest. A bit of extra headtube would mean you don't need any spacers. If you use spacers instead the effective top tube will shorten too much. Plus, worse than all of that, the extra spacers will just make everyone tell you to slam the stem.
Honestly, only you can tell if its the correct size. All those years on BR forum and you ask us if it fits?
I'd rather have an uncomfortable ride than an ugly one.....0 -
darkhairedlord wrote:
I'd rather have an uncomfortable ride than an ugly one.....
But then you're into the eternal debate. Which is uglier, stem spacers (small frame) or too little exposed seatpost (bigger frame)?
On your more serious point though, I think I do feel a drop in power on the drops so I guess it is too low for me (although maybe the cranks are at fault). I can fit another 5mm spacer (or do more stretching) but I suppose when I bought it I thought that without resorting to a -17 stem there was no way to ever get lower than the huge 560mm stack of the 54cm. Much better off buying a £100 Halfords bike you can try first....0 -
Any more thoughts (other than get some leg muscles)? Any advice very gratefully received especially from bike fitters.0
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It fits fine - just stop over-thinking things and ride the s**t out of it!
FFS! Harden up and grow a pair0
