Steel of not to steel

rob39

I'm due a new frame next year as my Ribble 7005sl frame is starting to show its age. As I'm the wrong side of 40 and mainly ride sportive's nowadays (mainly hilly ones) my days of racing are long gone but still want to put descent times in. I was wondering if a steel frame will be more useful. I know I'll pay a slight weight penalty but Coupled with my Zonda wheels and 105 5700 it could make a nice combo. I know it's a very personal thing but what's your thoughts. Some nice frames out there for £500

pblakeney

I've got a steel frame bike. I like it. A lot. But, I bought it 9 years ago when carbon was expensive. If I was buying today, it would be a comfortable geometry carbon frame.

shortfall

If it was me getting steel then I'd get something made by a frame builder. Probably more than you want to spend but you can decide with the builder exactly what you want from the type of tubing, whether it's lugged or welded, the paint job and so on. So much more individual and involving than off the peg and you'll love it all the more for it. If you're going to get a stock frame, then as above just get something comfortable made out of carbon.

londoncommuter

Definitely a heart over head decision so if you've a hankering for steel then you're going to have to get one!

I've got carbon, titanium and steel bikes (probably just as I read too many bike reviews and get suckered in) but if I was limited to one, and on a budget, it would be hard to look past a mid range carbon frame.

As Shortfall said, the whole process of getting one custom built would be brilliant and you could kid yourself that it was saving you money as you'd keep the frame forever.....

Moonbiker

Custom frame build is a gimmick unless you have freakish body proportions, or don't mind paying loads for it.

Spa do a basic steel frame

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s143p356 ... l-frameset

shortfall

Moonbiker wrote:

Custom frame build is a gimmick unless you have freakish body proportions, or don't mind paying loads for it.

Really? A good frame builder will measure you up and be able to tailor the exact tubing type and geometry to the specific needs for the type of riding to doing and your body shape, weight and flexibility etc. Stock frames usually involve a lot of compromises on all these factors. Whilst going bespoke might cost more than the OP's 500 quid budget, it doesn't have to be prohibitively expensive.

pippi_langsamer-2

I can't see how you'll get a "good", steel frame for <£500- certainly not one that's light enough to make your hilly sportives "easier".

Nothing against steel- it's lovely, but it's become the new neo-cycling rip-off!

For the money you seem to be quoting, I'd be looking at the new, high-end alu Kool-Kids on the Bloc like CAAD12, Bowman and Kinesis etc. Maybe a bit more than £500, but I think better than a mediocre steel, and they will make your old 7005 Ribble feel like a shopping trolley....

Moonbiker

So does a custom frames geometry measurements often vary considerably from standard?

My understandings its more to do with custom paint schemes & adding any optional extras like frame pump hooks etc.

Also I wonder if you went to 3 different builders you would you end up with 3 slightly different bike geometries as builders idea of a perfect bike fit varies, as imo its part an art part science.....

shortfall

Moonbiker wrote:

So does a custom frames geometry measurements often vary considerably from standard?

My understandings its more to do with custom paint schemes & adding any optional extras like frame pump hooks etc.

Also I wonder if you went to 3 different builders you would you end up with 3 slightly different bike geometries as builders idea of a perfect bike fit varies, as imo its part an art part science.....

Have you had a bike custom built for you? I suspect not from your replies. A stock frame has to work with riders with a range of different body shapes, weights, flexibility, power and fitness levels. When you go to a good frame builder you have a conversation about YOU, your kind of riding, and your level of fitness and flexibility. He will measure you carefully and between you you will decide on the tube diameters, the types of steel that may or may not lend themselves to your budget, riding style and intended use. Yes different frame builders will probably arrive at slightly different solutions to the same question but as in everything it's up to the customer to do their research. Most people will buy stock frames and bikes and be perfectly happy with them but the beauty of steel is that you can have a lot of input into the finished product which makes it so much more involving to own and less disposable.

Bobbinogs

I inherited a steel bike, a Mercian Strada Special from something like '97-98. It is made of some lovely 653 steel and, with things like 32 spoke wheels (with DT Competition spokes) and an old school San Marco saddle, it is not sprightly. Fellow riders on a club ride at the w/e couldn't believe its weight when one of them had to move it (they were all on topend summer machines and I had taken the extra cautious/courteous step of adding mudguards). However, it really isn't that bad specially when I am on it and I suspect the weight won't be much over 9-10kg (sans guards). Point is though, I love riding it and it is my bike of choice for 200/300km audaxes. I probably take a few extra seconds on some of the climbs because of it but who really cares, not me for sure as I can still get up them in a reasonable time.

I get some of the arguments about custom frames but this is an off the peg frame actually chosen by someone else, so slightly small for me but easily adjusted (I run with a tad more seatpost, which is no bad thing for comfort, and a 120mm stem). So, in terms of any additional benefits for paying a custom premium, not for me. Love it as it is. Maybe I would love it a little more if I had bought for me it in my 'off the peg' size or even specifically built for me, then again probably not. The bike has an emotional attachment that I suspect an inherited Spesh tarmac could never have.

I think if you are going steel then get a decent one...and there are lots of options out there so make the whole journey a good one.

w00dster

I'm a huge fan of steel, I've had a few. But I also love my light weight carbon bike as well...and my alu framed bike. I have all 3 frames, hard to pick a favourite.
My next bike will be steel, but that's only because I have a lightweight carbon bike already. When I go for my next steel bike it will be because I'm ready to chill on the bike that bit more. There is a difference in speed between my carbon bike and my steel bike, also a lot different in terms of aero / geometry and components so that's not really a like for like comparison. Going uphill I notice it the most, maybe not on short rolling hills, but on rides with a few decent climbs close together I notice it (8 to 15 min climbs). My steel bike is approx. 10kg with heavy stock wheels and my carbon bike is approx. 6.5kgs with fairly light wheels (not like for like I know).
If I could only have one bike, I would probably go for a decent alu frame (probably a CAAD12) as they seem to be better value for money. I personally don't notice the harshness on my alu frame over my carbon frame, but I do admit the steel does feel "softer".
That Mercian is lovely by the way.

imposter2.0

Raced on steel in the early 90s and then like most others, moved on to alu, ti and eventually carbon as technology progressed. Restored my old custom-built 653 a couple of years ago and rode it for a while - it reminded me why it had been hanging in the garage. I'll never sell the frame, because it was built for me, but it's now gone back to hanging in the garage again.

DeVlaeminck

I get the desire to own a custom steel frame whether for the ride quality of steel, aesthetics, the feeling of owning something personal or just nostalgia but this thing about stock frames meaning a lot of compromises on fit doesn't wash.

Yes if the seat post length, stem length, stem angle, seat post set back, bar width/drop/reach etc were all predetermined but they aren't so unless you really are a freak or have very unusual requirements a stock frame shouldn't involve compromises.

shortfall

DeVlaeminck wrote:

this thing about stock frames meaning a lot of compromises on fit doesn't wash.
.

What if you want a really stiff frame and the stocker is designed to be a compromise between comfort and speed? What if you only weigh 11 stone and can get away with a lighter gague steel that is double butted but the stocker uses bigger tube diameters​ of a heavier gague because it's designed for a range of riders weighing up to 18 stone? If you have the cash to get custom geometry, and spec whatever lugs and paintjob you fancy or if you'd rather have welded joints, or stainless steel then why wouldn't you? You won't get any argument from me that most people will be perfectly happy on an off the peg bike, I just think that they'd be even happier on a bespoke one. It doesn't even have to cost the earth.

Matthewfalle

N+1.

Do it.

DeVlaeminck

Shortfall wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

this thing about stock frames meaning a lot of compromises on fit doesn't wash.
.

What if you want a really stiff frame and the stocker is designed to be a compromise between comfort and speed? What if you only weigh 11 stone and can get away with a lighter gague steel that is double butted but the stocker uses bigger tube diameters​ of a heavier gague because it's designed for a range of riders weighing up to 18 stone? If you have the cash to get custom geometry, and spec whatever lugs and paintjob you fancy or if you'd rather have welded joints, or stainless steel then why wouldn't you? ......

Well because for the vast majority of us custom geometry adds nothing.

I accept that if people may want to feel they own something unique and I said that's a perfectly valid reason to spend the cash on custom so if you want fancy lugs, flashy paint or whatever I wouldn't say you shouldn't. In terms of fit though a stock frame is not a compromise for the vast majority of us.

As far as ride quality goes, stiffness, comfort etc, well there are a range of stock frames on the market which offer a rnge of ride qualities and because they are stock you can at least read reviews of them whereas with custom you rely on the frame builder's opinion.

shortfall

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

this thing about stock frames meaning a lot of compromises on fit doesn't wash.
.

What if you want a really stiff frame and the stocker is designed to be a compromise between comfort and speed? What if you only weigh 11 stone and can get away with a lighter gague steel that is double butted but the stocker uses bigger tube diameters​ of a heavier gague because it's designed for a range of riders weighing up to 18 stone? If you have the cash to get custom geometry, and spec whatever lugs and paintjob you fancy or if you'd rather have welded joints, or stainless steel then why wouldn't you? ......

Well because for the vast majority of us custom geometry adds nothing.

How do you know? There is an entire industry dedicated to making people fit properly on their stock bikes. People spend literally hundreds of pounds on having a bike fit and then even more switching out stems, bars and crank lengths and so on. The thing about getting a custom bike is that this is all worked out in the measuring and fitting process when you sit in the builders jig. Bottom line is, people can buy what they like and there's plenty of choice out there. I'm just putting forward a suggestion to the OP that by stretching his budget he can get exactly what he wants and he will love his bike all the more for it.

cougie

Custom Steel is expensive. You can get Carbon fibre for cheaper. I've had custom Steel and it's nice but a decent cf is nicer. 40is no age. You aren't even half way through your cycling life.

Grill

Had a couple of custom frames and can confirm that for 99.9% there is no need for custom geo. Having had many carbon, steel, and alu frames I can safely say that it really doesn't matter. Go with what you think is prettiest, but don't buy for the sake of the perceived benefits of one material over another.

beanstalk

rob39 wrote:

I know it's a very personal thing but what's your thoughts. Some nice frames out there for £500

I would narrow the choice down to either stainless steel or ED coated steel.