Car Suggestions

pirnie

Hi All,

A bit off topic from the usual bike chat, but anyone fancy helping me pick a car?

My partner and I have been getting on okay with one car for a while now but it looks like I'll be getting a new job soon and needing to buy a second car. We currently have a Polo which is great, but a bit small for us so we're looking for something a bit bigger to cope with the dog and potential kids in the next few years. Budget is probably about 10k (not a fan of finance etc.) so it'll almost certainly end up being used, possibly "approved used" from a dealer. Main use will be commuting and occasionally filling with bikes/luggage for trips away.

Looking round the golf and focus with 20-30k miles are the obvious suspects that jump out but I was wondering if anyone else had any suggestions/thoughts on cars about this price range?

Cheers in advance!

joncomelately

Not the car you want, but we got our Skoda estate from the local Skoda dealer as a 1yo ex fleet car. Only had 20k on the clock, and was almost half the price of new. Might be worth thinking about that kind of thing.

pirnie

Joncomelately wrote:

Not the car you want, but we got our Skoda estate from the local Skoda dealer as a 1yo ex fleet car. Only had 20k on the clock, and was almost half the price of new. Might be worth thinking about that kind of thing.

Actually that's potentially exactly the sort of car I want, unfortunately there's nothing coming up online like that within budget. I might give a few dealers a ring tomorrow and see if they can help

joncomelately

pirnie wrote:

Actually that's potentially exactly the sort of car I want

Sorry, very presumptive of me! Ours is a 14 plate 2L Octavia, and I've been very impressed (but I do drive like a granny). It's basically the saloon with a taller boot, so doesn't drive like a boat (not sure what the saloon boot is like, but that might be suitable too). The dealer had to do a bit of digging to find them from a central office so definitely worth giving them a shout.

Matthewfalle

Yeti.

Pross

Seat Leon estate is another lower cost option from the VW stable.

mamba80

I ve currently got an Octavia Estate, its a big car, a lot bigger than previous Focus/308 or Astra estates i ve had, but has an annoying step down to the boot level.
its very economical, even in 2l guise but mine is a new model, the older ones less so and according to other engineers, are noisier (all diesels) depending where and how far you commute might be worth considering any diesel emission tax changes, though i guess that depends who wins GE.

If i was spending my own money, i d get a focus, i had 3 over 10 years, did over 500k and all that was ever replaced apart from tires and brakes was a wheel bearing and a clutch, if my wallet was ruled by my heart, i d buy a 308, i loved that car, fantastic to drive, i could do Italy in one day and get out feeling like i d just driven to the shops!

bendertherobot

Have you considered leasing?

Pross

I handed back a Focus estate 1.6 tdci yesterday as I changed jobs. It was pretty good, lots of passenger space and the boot was very good size with the seats down (I took the front wheel off when I put my bike in it but think it may have fitted with it still on). It was a bit bland even in top of the range Ghia trim and not as efficient as I'd have expected but I'd certainly consider one again. I'm picking up a Qashqai today which will be the second time I've had one, I like the driving position and passenger space and the 1.6dci engine in the pre-2013 model is economical (the new model even more so I believe).

thistle_

pirnie wrote:

something a bit bigger to cope with the dog

How big is the dog?
My neighbours have a labrador and a Skoda Yeti which seems ideal and has adequate space for their (grown up) kids and grand kids.

tangled_metal

Watch out for lease deals. Heard some issues with them on r4 recently (you&your's programme). You don't own it, can end up overpaying at end of deal to own it, no equity build up in the car for next one, can have strictly enforced max mileage that incurs big charges if you go over, damage gets charged to fix, etc. Might not affect you but you do hear stories that people have ended up paying a lot more than buying with a car loan.

Diesel or petrol? Think hard on that one. It. Used to he said diesel only becomes cost effective to choose diesel if driving over 18,000 miles a year. Truth is I suspect with modern petrol and current petrol prices there is less advantage, especially with the potential for diesel car tax escalator in light of vw emissions scandal. I'm on second diesel but will be going petrol next time.

I like Astra estates personally. Old shape ones were pretty roomy. Newer shapes less so but still good. Personally I've gone off the VW stable of cars having owned a SEAT now for 3+ years. Avoid SEAT at all costs. Our altea (mpv version of a Leon) has several annoying issues. Wipers not stocked at motor factors / Halfords, climate control issues relating to a fan behind the dashboard (seriously climate control worked well for less than a year before failing due to we have been told an air circulation fan), etc. Not as reliable as my old Astra. Parts more expensive and can't get them online as easily or cheaply as fords and Vauxhalls. Basically I'm assuming you want a reliable and relatively cheap to buy / run car. IMHO VW group cars are overpriced and not worth the extra.

Ford cars and Vauxhall cars are probably a better choice. It used to be that Ford's had a premium over Vauxhalls and VW am even bigger premium for little if any gain.

tangled_metal

Wasn't there a Kia recall in Korea after a whistleblower leaked about a serious fault across a few models? Wonder if a European or US recall will happen?

pirnie

bendertherobot wrote:

Have you considered leasing?

I hadn't looked into it. I assumed that with dog and bikes going into the car regularly I'd be permanently on edge about damaging the interior since I wouldn't own it. Is that the case or not?

thistle (MBNW) wrote:

How big is the dog?
My neighbours have a labrador and a Skoda Yeti which seems ideal and has adequate space for their (grown up) kids and grand kids.

She's a beagle, so not a big dog, but she usually travels in her crate in the car so she does take up a fair bit of space. Sadly the other half isn't keen on the looks of the Yeti so that'd be hard sell, even though it does seem a very practical option.

Thanks for the suggestions all. Lots of food for thought there. Anyone else, feel free to chime in!

bendertherobot

pirnie wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Have you considered leasing?

I hadn't looked into it. I assumed that with dog and bikes going into the car regularly I'd be permanently on edge about damaging the interior since I wouldn't own it. Is that the case or not?

thistle (MBNW) wrote:

How big is the dog?
My neighbours have a labrador and a Skoda Yeti which seems ideal and has adequate space for their (grown up) kids and grand kids.

She's a beagle, so not a big dog, but she usually travels in her crate in the car so she does take up a fair bit of space. Sadly the other half isn't keen on the looks of the Yeti so that'd be hard sell, even though it does seem a very practical option.

Thanks for the suggestions all. Lots of food for thought there. Anyone else, feel free to chime in!

They're ok with reasonable wear and tear but, yes, there could be a penalty. £50 valet will probably deal with that kind of stuff, just don't ding the outside!

bendertherobot

Tangled Metal wrote:

Watch out for lease deals. Heard some issues with them on r4 recently (you&your's programme). You don't own it, can end up overpaying at end of deal to own it, no equity build up in the car for next one, can have strictly enforced max mileage that incurs big charges if you go over, damage gets charged to fix, etc. Might not affect you but you do hear stories that people have ended up paying a lot more than buying with a car loan.

Yeah, but most of that is common sense. But, on equity, it's better than a PCP. At the moment, just as an example, Peugeot will do a 2008 for £1k down, 6k miles, £220 per month. You can lease it for £600 down, £198 and 15k miles. Given that there will likely be very little equity left at the end to carry over to a new PCP why tie up cash?

tangled_metal

Not saying they can't be a good deal just that people need to go into it fully aware ought risks and benefits. It might not suit everyone even if it is cheaper.

veronese68

Regarding the petrol or diesel thing it very much depends on the type of driving you do. Modern diesels do not like too much town driving, they need a good run to clear out the system. If most of your driving is in town don't buy a diesel.

pirnie

oxoman wrote:

Agree with V68. You need to look seriously at the driving you currently do. Bare in mind you will be splitting your mileage between 2 vehicles. I'm in similar position as eldest lad is taking his driving test shortly so i wont be driving him to training most days. Will seriously be looking at petrol if economically viable.

Yeah, that's a good point. The problem is I don't know where I'll be working yet, and I currently work from home but that'll change with whatever job I find. I'm leaning more towards petrol as it's what I know and I know what rush hour traffic near here is like...

meanredspider

It's a shame they don't make anything quite like the original Merc A-Class (though the B-Class might do something similar). Small car on the outside with a completely flat floor the entire length, all seats removeable, 2-position rear seats with booster seats built in. Tall passenger area. It was absolutely ideal for a young family and incredibly versatile: I had all five of us in it with a tumble dryer in the boot (and ours wasn't the LWB version) and I've easily carried a 3.0 litre V6 engine in the back, or several bikes. Merc build quality which is just so much better than any car I've ever worked on - just so much better engineered. The drive wasn't inspiring but your post doesn't come across as that being important.
Our X-reg car (bought as ex-demo) transferred to the outlaws and was going strong until about 4 years ago when someone smashed into MIL and the fire brigade cut the roof off (wisely) to allow her to be extracted in her seat as she'd sustained some neck damage.
The B-Class will be in your budget (possibly not at an age/mileage you like) and might perform some of the same tricks.

capt_slog

Tangled Metal wrote:

I like Astra estates personally. Old shape ones were pretty roomy. Newer shapes less so but still good. .

I have an astra estate too. I put mine and sons bikes in a bike bag (each), removing both wheels and the seat post. Both bike bags then fit in the car standing up, with one of the back seats down. I've also transported fridge freezers in the back, and quite bulky furniture. It's true that the newer ones have a bit less boot space, but it's still good.

The thing I tend to look for on an estate car is a "load level" boot. You talked about potential kids, this boot makes a great changing platform, somewhere to sit whilst putting boots on etc.

edit: BTW I wouldn't touch a diesel now I'm afraid. I can see other cities following the lead of london and making it difficult and expensive to run a diesel.

hdow

Honda Civic for me. Loads of space. Incredibly reliable. Onto our second. The first did 245,000 miles with a 1.4 litre petrol engine with nothing apart from regular servicing. Nice drive too. Bit of road noise the only drawback. Got it from main dealer for £8.5k, 18k miles 4 years old
One really useful feature on ours is that the rear seats tip up leaving enough space for two bikes to fit in across-ways with the front wheels off.

bendertherobot

These things will often predictably turn into a my car is great thread. Modern cars are great. Get a reliable one and they'll go on forever. Some marques can be better than others but I've had more problematic VAG group cars than French ones. Stupid me for continuing buying them really. But most of the faults were niggles.

I think, much like a bike, get something that fits. Be that the space, ethos, looks etc. Running costs differ but 45 v 55mpg isn't massive if your miles aren't massive.

Get out and kick some tyres.

meanredspider

Before you kick some tyres, make a list of what you think you need in the car. It will get very confusing very quickly if you don't.

tangled_metal

Shouldn't we as cyclists be moving away from diesel in light of the modern petrol efficiency and the diesel's particulate issue?

tangled_metal

Isn't the issue with diesels the way it burns produces more of the fine particulates? It might be efficient but if it still produces more fine particulates than petrol cars then it's a good reason to change, surely?

meanredspider

I think it's the NOx that diesels produce that is the problem with them and that applies to modern diesels. The issue is that the regulatory test isn't representative of real-world driving. I'm definitely sticking with petrol (and electric when it makes sense) unless I really have to gave the torque for towing purposes. It's then really important to have the thing serviced regularly.

veronese68

meanredspider wrote:

I think it's the NOx that diesels produce that is the problem with them and that applies to modern diesels. The issue is that the regulatory test isn't representative of real-world driving.

That's my understanding of it. The UK based vehicle taxation purely on carbon emissions which caused the massive rise in diesel use over here. Carbon emissions contribute to global warming so cause long term issue. Nitrogen based particulates cause breathing problems now so are a more immediate issue. Modern diesels have lots of emission stuff to keep emissions down, DPF and this blue stuff. But driving in town clogs a DPF really quickly then emissions become more of an issue, it costs a couple of grand to replace if it gets to that point so a lot of people have them removed or bypassed. That is obviously a problem. Taxis and buses tend to be driven in towns, hence they clog up and belch lots of black smoke.
I'm trying to buy a car for us, fancy a Ford Smax with the 240bhp petrol engine. When I looked there were 71 diesels for sale to 4 petrol. Of those 4 only one had the engine I want. The way the UK government set taxation on emissions was all wrong.

pirnie

Veronese68 wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I think it's the NOx that diesels produce that is the problem with them and that applies to modern diesels. The issue is that the regulatory test isn't representative of real-world driving.

That's my understanding of it. The UK based vehicle taxation purely on carbon emissions which caused the massive rise in diesel use over here. Carbon emissions contribute to global warming so cause long term issue. Nitrogen based particulates cause breathing problems now so are a more immediate issue. Modern diesels have lots of emission stuff to keep emissions down, DPF and this blue stuff. But driving in town clogs a DPF really quickly then emissions become more of an issue, it costs a couple of grand to replace if it gets to that point so a lot of people have them removed or bypassed. That is obviously a problem. Taxis and buses tend to be driven in towns, hence they clog up and belch lots of black smoke.
I'm trying to buy a car for us, fancy a Ford Smax with the 240bhp petrol engine. When I looked there were 71 diesels for sale to 4 petrol. Of those 4 only one had the engine I want. The way the UK government set taxation on emissions was all wrong.

Aye, looking at golfs, within 20 miles of here there are 150 for sale. 130 are Diesel and only 20 are petrol!