Giro 2017: Stage 14: Castellania – Oropa 131 km *Spoilers*

13

Comments

  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    I must say watching the highlights again. I wonder how much those goons chasing Quintana helped mask Dumoulin's approach? Tom seemed to take him completely by surprise, or was Quintana just expecting him to sit on once he'd caught up?
    Correlation is not causation.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Rollemynot wrote:
    Been meaning to ask...

    What is this asylum we talk about?

    Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    Van Garderen in an interview with Velo News:

    "Sometimes I tell myself, maybe I am not a grand tour rider"

    You think TJ?

    I mean to be fair to him, he is riding below his potential in this Giro but come on.
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    I wonder if Quintana struggled to accelerate on the cobbles at the end? Or that might be just making excuses.
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    Just caught last 7kms, very very cool ride by Tom Dumoulin, didn't seem phased at all by Quintanas ineffectual attacks. Glad to see Italy has its fair share of special n*bheads running on the road.
    Quintana is not as impressive as many like to make out.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    Milton50 wrote:
    I wonder if Quintana struggled to accelerate on the cobbles at the end? Or that might be just making excuses.
    IMO both him, his team, and the wider cycling media/fans have either overestimated Quintana's abilities or underestimated the level of the other riders w.r.t. Quintana (based on Quintana's comments after Blockhaus I suspect the former).

    If Dumoulin wasn't such a cool customer it would have been a totally different result. If he'd tried to follow the wheels he'd have cracked.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    Also, where's Frenchie when you need him - he hated it when riders didn't try to match attacks and rode up to their own pace!
  • smithy21
    smithy21 Posts: 2,204
    Well I bl00dy loved that. Dumoulin told everyone what he was going to do then executed brilliantly.

    Quintana pumping away out of the saddle while Dumoulin just rode him down was delightful.
  • shockedsoshocked
    shockedsoshocked Posts: 4,021
    Don't know why are calling Tommy D the new Ulle.

    Ulle would had have done that climb on his drops in the 53x12.

    Easy.
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

    PTP Runner Up 2015
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,270
    Good stage - the kind of stage that convinces me that there isn't so much doping now. Back in the day, someone like quintana would have been away and gone.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    ShockedSoShocked wrote:
    Don't know why are calling Tommy D the new Ulle.

    Ulle would had have done that climb on his drops in the 53x12.

    Easy.

    Like.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    What's impressive about Dumolin's climbing is not so much that he has the mental fortitude to pace it evenly and hang in there, but that, after all that, he has a handful of genuine accelerations in him.


    Stage winning accelerations.
    _
  • slim_boy_fat
    slim_boy_fat Posts: 1,810
    Loved that! Only caught the last 20k but not sure I missed much before that. Props to Dumoulin, looks like the real deal. Stage suited him but expected Quintana to win when he went away, love the fact that he attacked as soon as he got back up to Quintana's wheel.

    Be interesting to see if Quintana is bluffing a little to save himself for the last week or that really is where he's at. Hoping Tom can win it now.
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    well hes one of my favourites but my eyebrow is raised.

    Im not part of the clinic either
  • slim_boy_fat
    slim_boy_fat Posts: 1,810
    Vino'sGhost wrote:
    well hes one of my favourites but my eyebrow is raised.

    Im not part of the clinic either
    Why, because he was able to manage a 20 min effort after a pan flat 120km with a tail wind?

    Yes, every now and again you see something that makes you think but this is pretty far away from anything like that.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    If Oropa was raced as a time trial I would back Dumoulin to beat Quintana. So if Dumoulin rides it as a time trial, with little difficulties in the approach to the climb it's not easy for Quintana to beat him.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,744
    The question as far as the GC goes now is is that it?

    With another TT to come barring illness or injury is there a realistic chance of Quintana pulling back what will probably need to be 4 minutes plus in the remaining mountain stages ? Especially as Movistar always seem to me to be tactically conservative - 4 minutes isn't retrievable by chipping away it needs something memorable.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,234
    Vino'sGhost wrote:
    hes one of my favourites but my eyebrow is raised.
    That's more stupider than anything I've read since Trump got in.

    Try raising the other eyebrow then turn the cycling off.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    Slim Boy Fat wrote:
    Vino'sGhost wrote:
    well hes one of my favourites but my eyebrow is raised.

    Im not part of the clinic either
    Why, because he was able to manage a 20 min effort after a pan flat 120km with a tail wind?

    Yes, every now and again you see something that makes you think but this is pretty far away from anything like that.

    Clinic argument is "drops Quintana on a climb = doping" (that and the usual winning = doping, improving = doping etc etc etc)

    To be honest I can kinda see where the suspicion comes from, but for me the way he fell away from Quintana on the steep bits and came back on the flatter bits helps. Also the fact he's only 26, and has been steadily improving for a while.

    Be interesting to see how he goes in the multiple summit stages now.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    The question as far as the GC goes now is is that it?

    With another TT to come barring illness or injury is there a realistic chance of Quintana pulling back what will probably need to be 4 minutes plus in the remaining mountain stages ? Especially as Movistar always seem to me to be tactically conservative - 4 minutes isn't retrievable by chipping away it needs something memorable.

    With the TT people were suggesting Dumoulin had an "effective" lead of maybe as much as 5 minutes.

    Movistar were in difficulty before this stage; taking 30s on each MTF was not going to be good enough. 24s on Blockhaus was below par.

    I think the big risk is Dumoulin's team compared to Movistar, if Movistar drill it hard on one of the mountain stages and Dumoulin gets isolated you could imagine Dumoulin cracking and shelling minutes. He is riding imperiously at the moment, but will he keep up through the 3rd week?

    Or he could hit a snow bank!!
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,816
    Should he have any, I think his biggest problems will come with the two lesser mountain stages and in particular, stage 20.
    They look like prime ambush territory to me.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    RichN95 wrote:
    If Oropa was raced as a time trial I would back Dumoulin to beat Quintana. So if Dumoulin rides it as a time trial, with little difficulties in the approach to the climb it's not easy for Quintana to beat him.

    I guess the hope is it forces Quintana to go all Contador.
    _
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    well its just how i felt. Good tv though :)
  • type:epyt
    type:epyt Posts: 766
    That was one of the best finishes I've seen in the last 2/3 years ... Sadly, Big D is gonna get dumped on an early climb somewhere along the line and that'll be that ... Or hopefully not ...
    Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    Nairo Quintana = Tim Henman
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    kleinstroker wrote:
    Nairo Quintana = Tim Henman

    You know Quintana has already won the Giro and Vuelta right?
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,270
    Slim Boy Fat wrote:
    Loved that! Only caught the last 20k but not sure I missed much before that. Props to Dumoulin, looks like the real deal. Stage suited him but expected Quintana to win when he went away, love the fact that he attacked as soon as he got back up to Quintana's wheel.

    Be interesting to see if Quintana is bluffing a little to save himself for the last week or that really is where he's at. Hoping Tom can win it now.

    That last couple of hundred metres was no bluff. Just misjudged his effort - if Zakarin had stayed with Dumoulin, he would have won the stage.

    Awesome pacing effort from Dumoulin.
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    The question as far as the GC goes now is is that it?

    With another TT to come barring illness or injury is there a realistic chance of Quintana pulling back what will probably need to be 4 minutes plus in the remaining mountain stages ? Especially as Movistar always seem to me to be tactically conservative - 4 minutes isn't retrievable by chipping away it needs something memorable.

    With the TT people were suggesting Dumoulin had an "effective" lead of maybe as much as 5 minutes.

    Movistar were in difficulty before this stage; taking 30s on each MTF was not going to be good enough. 24s on Blockhaus was below par.

    I think the big risk is Dumoulin's team compared to Movistar, if Movistar drill it hard on one of the mountain stages and Dumoulin gets isolated you could imagine Dumoulin cracking and shelling minutes. He is riding imperiously at the moment, but will he keep up through the 3rd week?

    Or he could hit a snow bank!!

    Yeh, the only way it could happen is with a big blow up. The gap is now too much to bridge in normal circumstances.

    If Quintana was at his strongest then the Stelvio stage is one where Movistar could really put the pressure on from a few kilometers in and then test Dumoulin over the Mortirolo and Stelvio. Trouble is, with Quintana going for the Giro-Tour double I don't think he is at his best.
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    Milton50 wrote:
    kleinstroker wrote:
    Nairo Quintana = Tim Henman

    You know Quintana has already won the Giro and Vuelta right?

    Tim won a lot of things, just not Wimbledon.

    *ok not a lot of things but it seemed like he had
  • The_Boy
    The_Boy Posts: 3,099
    kleinstroker wrote:
    Milton50 wrote:
    kleinstroker wrote:
    Nairo Quintana = Tim Henman

    You know Quintana has already won the Giro and Vuelta right?

    Tim won a lot of things, just not Wimbledon.

    Or indeed any grand slam. Come tk think of it, did he even feature in the finals of one?
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy

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