Big and potentially costly dilemma

dstev55

Right then. Please sit down, this could be a long one...

I purchased some new handbuilts wheels from a very reputable wheel builder back in late March. I received the wheels very quickly and I had an initial couple of short rides on them. They rode well however my gears weren't shifting right which I attributed to a slight alteration in cassette position.

So I took my bike to my LBS and asked them to give the bike a service and check everything etc. I got my bike back and the gear changes were crisp. However I couldn't help but notice a buzzing / chain rub sound but only in a couple of gears, namely the 2nd and 3rd smallest rear sprocket. The noise disappeared further up or down the cassette. When I say chain rub, it isn't rub on the front derailleur, the sound is coming from the rear mech or cassette area. The harder I pedalled the louder the noise was and all my clubmates commented on how obvious it was.

So it went back to my LBS. They were a bit baffled by what could be causing the noise, but agreed to get it sorted. After all, the gears are mainly Dura Ace apart from an Ultegra cassette and Rotor crank and Q Rings, so gears changes should be crisp and operation as silent as to reasonably be expected from a bikes drivetrain.

To cut an even longer story short, my bike has been in and out of my LBS about 3-4 times now. Each time they're tried something different. They've sent me out with a new chain (which I paid for), a new cassette (which I didn't) and on my last visit I asked them to try a different rear mech. The noise is still present. They have suggested that it might be the hub on the rear wheel that is faulty. I'm not particularly technically minded, especially when it comes to wheels, but I'm struggling to understand how the hub could cause a noise in certain gears in the middle of the cassette. What I have forgot to mention, the hubs are Dura Ace, so not some cheap, poorly made design.

The LBS has now washed their hands of my bike after charging me £60 for their time (which I understand as they have spent time looking at it, but from my point of view I've spent £60 for absolutely nothing). They have suggested I get in contact with who I bought my wheels from.

However I can imagine it now, I will send them back at my expense, no fault will be found and I will be left out of pocket again and with a bike that makes an annoying noise every time I ride it.

Really frustrated about this and sitting here scratching my head in all honesty....

Any ideas or advice?

bendertherobot

Can you try the wheels on another bike?

dstev55

bendertherobot wrote:

Can you try the wheels on another bike?

I could try them on a friends bike yes, although apparently my LBS tried this and the noise was still present although I had to ask them this and they seemed to respond in a hasty fashion which makes me think they didn't.

bendertherobot

I suspect it's just 'one of those things' a combination of particular equipment causing a particular issue. If it's absent on a mate's bike then I'd look to the Q rings as being the potential cause. Not a fault, just a thing.

dstev55

bendertherobot wrote:

I suspect it's just 'one of those things' a combination of particular equipment causing a particular issue. If it's absent on a mate's bike then I'd look to the Q rings as being the potential cause. Not a fault, just a thing.

It's not what you spend thousands of pounds on groupset and wheels for though is it? My mate runs Dura Ace and Q Rings so it'll be a great like for like swap. In fact, at the same time I can try his wheels on my bike to see whether the noise is still present.

bendertherobot

No, it's not. But with the sheer volume of variables, it can happen. That doesn't make it any happier, of course.

That swap sounds perfect. Let's see what happens!

ravey1981

Have someone check it with a derailleur alignment tool, even a tiny discrepancy can cause those sorts of problems. I went through exactly this when I rebuilt a bike with new components, turned out the worn components were hiding/masking the problem. I went through a new mech and all sorts before I got to the bottom of it. It was visible straight but with the gauge on was slightly out. Oh, and find a decent lbs, that one sounds poor.

Bobbinogs

dstev55 wrote:

...They have suggested that it might be the hub on the rear wheel that is faulty. I'm not particularly technically minded, especially when it comes to wheels, but I'm struggling to understand how the hub could cause a noise in certain gears...

Yepp, I am struggling to understand that one! Try and get them to explain the logic as I would like to understand it. Perhaps they mean they could be some play in the freehub/preload but that should have taken 10 seconds to answer/resolve. Oh, and when they have clarified that then it might be worth looking for another bike shop,as suggested.

I think the easiest suggestion to moving forward the investigation is as above, try and swap the wheelset with someone else and see what they think and/or see if your problem is solved. The other good suggestion I see above is the rear hanger, has the hanger taken a knock in any way? They can be easily bent and that would affect things. A decent bike shop would clarify that one pretty quickly.

dstev55

Thanks for all the advice chaps, I will definitely swap some gear over with a friends to try and pinpoint the issue.

However I think I have already sold the overall problem of me owning a bike I'm not satisfied with.... I've just gone and bought a new one!

Rodrego Hernandez

Is it a Dura Ace cassette?

dstev55

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Is it a Dura Ace cassette?

No, Ultegra.

Rodrego Hernandez

dstev55 wrote:

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Is it a Dura Ace cassette?

No, Ultegra.

That's my theory blown out of the water, Dura Ace cassettes have a known problem with them making a right racket but Ultegra are quiet as a mouse. Just check that it is installed OK - splines greased etc and that it is done up tight enough. If there is still a noise, it'll likely be the wheel. Mavic have a history of noisy wheels.

Good luck!

dstev55

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

dstev55 wrote:

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Is it a Dura Ace cassette?

No, Ultegra.

That's my theory blown out of the water, Dura Ace cassettes have a known problem with them making a right racket but Ultegra are quiet as a mouse. Just check that it is installed OK - splines greased etc and that it is done up tight enough. If there is still a noise, it'll likely be the wheel. Mavic have a history of noisy wheels.

Good luck!

They may well do, but considering my hubs are Dura-ace I can't see what difference it would make! :P

Rodrego Hernandez

Maybe the free hub body then, dura ace are loose bearing hubs I think so they will be easy to check and re-grease if need be. The free hub is easy to remove with the right size allan key. Can't think of anything else it could be.

bristolpete

I run Rotor on two bikes and something interesting is Rotor chain rings, round or oval are inherently quieter with a KMC chain rather than a Shimano chain. Hyperbole of the internet usually says they come from the same place, but that how I see it and more so hear it. Could it be this ?

dstev55

bristolpete wrote:

I run Rotor on two bikes and something interesting is Rotor chain rings, round or oval are inherently quieter with a KMC chain rather than a Shimano chain. Hyperbole of the internet usually says they come from the same place, but that how I see it and more so hear it. Could it be this ?

Potentially yes, it originally had a KMC chain on it but the last 2 chains have been Shimano.

sloppyschleckonds

Boy oh boy can't wait for this to be resolved

itboffin

I have a friend with exactly the same problem, we still have no idea what's going on and he's in the LBS weekly

owenpuckey

sounds obvious but what gear are you in on the front because if your in the little ring then the chain is just rubbing the front mech

trivial_poursuivant

owenpuckey wrote:

sounds obvious but what gear are you in on the front because if your in the little ring then the chain is just rubbing the front mech

8th line, 3rd paragraph of original post. I take it you did read the original post before commenting?

I have had a (sort of similar) issue on a bike. It was vibration in the larger rings which was traced to the spring in the rear derailleur. When it was extended long under tension it would sing so to speak . Bit like a guitar string. As this case it's at the other end under less tension it's maybe not the same but it's a possibility.

Rear mech in question was a 5700 medium cage.

robbo2011

Helluva way to welcome a new poster. Great job Trivial Poursuivant!

dstev55

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

owenpuckey wrote:

sounds obvious but what gear are you in on the front because if your in the little ring then the chain is just rubbing the front mech

8th line, 3rd paragraph of original post. I take it you did read the original post before commenting?

I have had a (sort of similar) issue on a bike. It was vibration in the larger rings which was traced to the spring in the rear derailleur. When it was extended long under tension it would sing so to speak . Bit like a guitar string. As this case it's at the other end under less tension it's maybe not the same but it's a possibility.

Rear mech in question was a 5700 medium cage.

I'm convinced it's the rear mech and has absolutely nothing to do with the wheels. It comes back from a different bike shop with a different set of wheels on later today so we'll see.

In all honesty I will be selling the bike now as I've just bought another. In an ideal world it will come back from the new shop perfectly indexed with no noises and I'll try my wheels on a mate's bike and there'll be no noises on them either. Fingers crossed.

stueys

I've a cervelo r5 running dura (9070) and q rings. I sometimes get a similar issue that you describe (though it's not a loud noise, more a gentle buzzing in a couple of gears). It always comes back to hanger alignment. I actually bought myself the park alignment tool as the cervelo hanger appears to be completely unable to stay aligned for anything more than a month or so....

I would get the LBS to triple check your hanger alignment. I also ditched KMC chains and went back to Shim ones as I found the KMC ones to be noisier.

trivial_poursuivant

dstev55 wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

owenpuckey wrote:

sounds obvious but what gear are you in on the front because if your in the little ring then the chain is just rubbing the front mech

8th line, 3rd paragraph of original post. I take it you did read the original post before commenting?

I have had a (sort of similar) issue on a bike. It was vibration in the larger rings which was traced to the spring in the rear derailleur. When it was extended long under tension it would sing so to speak . Bit like a guitar string. As this case it's at the other end under less tension it's maybe not the same but it's a possibility.

Rear mech in question was a 5700 medium cage.

I'm convinced it's the rear mech and has absolutely nothing to do with the wheels. It comes back from a different bike shop with a different set of wheels on later today so we'll see.

In all honesty I will be selling the bike now as I've just bought another. In an ideal world it will come back from the new shop perfectly indexed with no noises and I'll try my wheels on a mate's bike and there'll be no noises on them either. Fingers crossed.

I agree. That's why I said the spring in the derailleur. Are people suffering from temporary dyslexia today?

dstev55

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

dstev55 wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

owenpuckey wrote:

sounds obvious but what gear are you in on the front because if your in the little ring then the chain is just rubbing the front mech

8th line, 3rd paragraph of original post. I take it you did read the original post before commenting?

I have had a (sort of similar) issue on a bike. It was vibration in the larger rings which was traced to the spring in the rear derailleur. When it was extended long under tension it would sing so to speak . Bit like a guitar string. As this case it's at the other end under less tension it's maybe not the same but it's a possibility.

Rear mech in question was a 5700 medium cage.

I'm convinced it's the rear mech and has absolutely nothing to do with the wheels. It comes back from a different bike shop with a different set of wheels on later today so we'll see.

In all honesty I will be selling the bike now as I've just bought another. In an ideal world it will come back from the new shop perfectly indexed with no noises and I'll try my wheels on a mate's bike and there'll be no noises on them either. Fingers crossed.

I agree. That's why I said the spring in the derailleur. Are people suffering from temporary dyslexia today?

:?: