TRP HY/RD Help...

jack264

Now I got a Crux with these brakes on.....and I've never really got overly used to them, the back wheel I could always move quite easily when on fully pressed on the brake, and now I am seemingly have the same problem with the front wheel....I assumed it was the pads, but from wear pictures, they aren't even close to being worn. I don't get it.

I'll try to sort the front one to start with, as it's barely braking at all....either way, heres a picture.

http://i.imgur.com/8Y150aN.jpg


Also is there anyway to adjust these brakes so I don't have to fully press on the lever like this - http://i.imgur.com/8Y150aN.jpg

I've usually set up my road bikes so they barely go half that distance for a full brake. By the way, when it's fully pressed like it is in that picture, I can still move the front wheel quite easily.

meanredspider

You've linked to the same pic twice. Chances are that your brakes were not properly bedded in using the proper process so that the pads have glazed. Either that or you have contaminated the pads. I've been using this brake since 2014 and they work very well (though not as well as full hydro)

Lever throw is a characteristic of HyRd. You need the lost motion to allow the pads to self adjust. That's the purpose of the setting up pin. Resist any temptation to remove this lost motion.

jack264

The second picture should of been this - http://i.imgur.com/4BT0mKW.jpg

Either way, I don't really know what you mean by lever throw or lost motion? Sorry, I'm brutally new to disc brakes, and while I didn't expect them to be as simple as rims, these are kinda driving me a bit nuts.

What do you mean by Glazed also?

I've never been overly confident with them, especially how highly discs were praised for their better braking, I saw nothing on them over rims, but then again, no one told me the process to break them in properly. Just not to go mental, my first few rides were routine shortish road rides. I don't think I've actually been off road with it yet.

meanredspider

OK - I'll start from the beginning.

What you should do with disc brakes is "go mental" at the beginning. Ideally find a long sloping road and build up lots of speed and brake really hard without stopping or locking the brake. You're trying to get the disc really hot. Typically (depending upon speed and weight) you'll need to do this 6-10 times for each brake - front and rear. This will condition the pads. After this, you should try to avoid gentle dragging of the brakes. Glazing, as the name suggests, means that the pad surface gets shiny like glass. And poor braking performance results. These brakes benefit from some hard braking.

"Lost motion" is movement that seems to have no action. When you operate pretty much any hydraulic brake, the first small movement of the master cylinder closes off the route to the reservoir. Travel after that generates pressure in the braking system. Once braking is released, the piston moves back and opens the route to the reservoir. This allows a little more fluid to enter the system which compensates for the wear in the pads. That's why, unlike rim brake calipers, the bite point doesn't move and you don't need to adjust the cable length due to pad wear. This is, however, a temptation with HyRd to remove the "lost motion" from the lever. This will work temporarily but will mean that the reservoir never tops up the system and eventually your lever will be hard against the bars and you still won't be slowing down. I know because my LBS made this mistake and I found I had no front brake on a fast descent of Alpe D'Huez - it tends to stick in your mind.

I hope that helps.

So you could try to "de-glaze" your pads with some emery (sand) paper and then do the bedding in process. Or buy some new pads and do the bedding in process.

It's worth persisting- the brakes are good when operating correctly.

ugo.santalucia

It could be a faulty caliper... I had one that didn't self adjust for wear, so basically upon braking the pads were barely touching the rotor and no braking at all... TRP replaced it and the new unit has been faultless

jack264

Well I seem to have no front brake right now, and I think the back one just needs setting up as it is braking....just not strongly, but I've never really built up insane speed on it, but I won't be doing that until I have a front brake.

But what do I do about the front? Just replace the pads, despite them not looking glazed or worn.....I'm just going off google pictures here. They've done like 300 dry miles I'd guess, if that.

meanredspider

jack264 wrote:

Well I seem to have no front brake right now, and I think the back one just needs setting up as it is braking....just not strongly, but I've never really built up insane speed on it, but I won't be doing that until I have a front brake.

But what do I do about the front? Just replace the pads, despite them not looking glazed or worn.....I'm just going off google pictures here. They've done like 300 dry miles I'd guess, if that.

There were issues with early calipers and, as Ugo says, yours maybe faulty. The symptom will be a lever that touches the bars. If the lever operates firmly but the pads are just not retarding you, replace the pads (carefully following TRPs instructions) and do the bedding in process.

All of this assumes you haven't contaminated the pads with oil or polish or something.

meanredspider

I've managed to see your second picture now (filters were stopping me) and it looks as though you do have too much travel.

The first thing to check is that the lever on the calipers has the correct movement and that someone hasn't adjusted them wrong. I'd disconnect the cable and follow the TRP instructions for setting up this lever (which involves the little setting up pin/screw). If, after you've done that it looks as though the cable is in the same place (i.e. They were set up right) your calipers might be faulty. Seems unlikely to me that you have two faulty calipers and more likely that the set-up was wrong).

Chances are the pads have suffered anyway (especially if you didn't ever do the bedding in) so you'll need to sort them as described above.

jack264

The lever easily touches the bars by the way as that was supposed to be the second picture and I did put it up, but it delivers zero breaking whatsoever, or extremely little that I'm not noticing it on the stand. Surely even if there was contamination which I'm not going to say for certain there isn't....but I haven't been around that kind of stuff while looking at these brakes, it wouldn't completely wipe out the brakes? Seems a bit flimsy...I just thought it mostly led to irritating squeels and braking detonating quicker as I've had it from my MTB(XT i think that is though)

I do appreciate everything you are getting back to me with though, as I said, massive newbie when it comes to looking at discs.

EDIT - Seen your newer post, that lever is for the FRONT only, back is no way near as bad, though I'd like to be slightly less, but I think you said earlier that's just something you kinda have to live with on brakes.

meanredspider

Yup - sorry on a hospital ward and there are image filters on some of the networks.

Unfortunately disc brakes are quite new to the road world and things like bedding in that the MTB community take for granted haven't filtered through yet. Also, as I discovered, the setting up of HyRds by even experienced LBSs can be done wrong. It doesn't help that there were also faulty calipers (TRP declined to do a recall).

I like disc brakes but I also recognise that they need a bit of mechanical competence to set them up that isn't necessarily widely available.

devonboy

I changed to HY/RD from Spyre on my Diverge because I did not feel that the mechanical calipers were any better than rim brakes.

The HY/RD were a complete bust to begin with,the front failed within 10 miles and the rear lost all fluid overnight.The LBS returned them to the importer and when they came back the label on the package said " repaired and upgraded".LBS speculated that there might be a batch of bad seals going through.

They have now done more than 2000 miles,without problem,currently running them with SwissStop organic pads,superb braking.

My lad recently bought a Diverge with Spyre and after his first ride made the comment that the brakes were not as good those on my Diverge.

Could well be that yours need returning too,when you get them right they are a real upgrade.

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

I like disc brakes but I also recognise that they need a bit of mechanical competence to set them up that isn't necessarily widely available.

I bought into them 8 years ago, but I have seen little progress at the mid end of the market. At the time I had some BB7 and I can't say that what is available now is much better... of course hydraulics might be, but the cost is staggering, especially so when you compare it to what you get in the MTBike market for half the money (like XT, which is awesome).

I am also disappointed with the ever increasing number of different standards, designed to make life complicated, being that the endless number of thru axle modes, direct mount/postmount/IS mount and whatnot...

Moral, I have decided to take a break from discs, after finding out in my most recent trip to the alps that my 1980 Campagnolo brakes are just as good as a pair of HyRD set up well... I might come back to discs when the technology is more mature and the price point more affordable.

jack264

I've give TRP/Uk Supplier Upgrade a quick email to see what they can do. As I don't see new pads being the solution to the front issue at this moment, maybe I'm missing something, likely I am.....but I'm gonna get 2 sets of pads anyway, because I'm going to need them regardless, though if I end up having to purchase a new caliper, I'm just gonna put a 1x11 full groupset on and move the 105 Groupset here to my Steel Ribble.....a move I wanted to do at some point, just not this year.

meanredspider

I have some sympathy, Ugo. That said I do think things are moving forward reasonably fast in road biking and I don't think I've bought anything that will give me any future issues. There are umpteen different BB Standards and headset bearing arrangements and other various crap. That doesn't stop us buying bikes with these things.

meanredspider

jack264 wrote:

I've give TRP/Uk Supplier Upgrade a quick email to see what they can do. As I don't see new pads being the solution to the front issue at this moment, maybe I'm missing something, likely I am.....but I'm gonna get 2 sets of pads anyway, because I'm going to need them regardless, though if I end up having to purchase a new caliper, I'm just gonna put a 1x11 full groupset on and move the 105 Groupset here to my Steel Ribble.....a move I wanted to do at some point, just not this year.

No - pads won't solve your lever problem (well, they might, but only temporarily). What you do need to do though is check that the cable tensioning is done right else you won't know if the caliper or the installation is at fault.

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

I have some sympathy, Ugo. That said I do think things are moving forward reasonably fast in road biking and I don't think I've bought anything that will give me any future issues. There are umpteen different BB Standards and headset bearing arrangements and other various crap. That doesn't stop us buying bikes with these things.

Three years ago I moved to tubeless... you could choose between Schwalbe One, Maxxis Padrone and three offers from Hutchinson... now you can choose between Schwalbe One, Maxxis Padrone and three offers from Hutchinson... just as back then sizes are never available and RRP are exhorbitant... I am hanging on to tubelss, but just... is it normal that I have to hoard tyres and buy them when they are on offer in whatever size they come with basically zero choice?

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I have some sympathy, Ugo. That said I do think things are moving forward reasonably fast in road biking and I don't think I've bought anything that will give me any future issues. There are umpteen different BB Standards and headset bearing arrangements and other various crap. That doesn't stop us buying bikes with these things.

Three years ago I moved to tubeless... you could choose between Schwalbe One, Maxxis Padrone and three offers from Hutchinson... now you can choose between Schwalbe One, Maxxis Padrone and three offers from Hutchinson... just as back then sizes are never available and RRP are exhorbitant... I am hanging on to tubelss, but just... is it normal that I have to hoard tyres and buy them when they are on offer in whatever size they come with basically zero choice?

Unlike you, I think I will dump tubeless at the first sensible opportunity. I have the S-One on my Renegade and I can't say I've noticed any benefit. I bought them only because I had to buy new tyres for the bike and I was curious. But, for no obvious reason other than the tyres, the Renegade is slower than my other two road bikes. I'm still carrying a spare tube and I'm not looking forward to getting that tyre off the rim or back on with a tube. The hydro discs on the Renegade, on the other hand, are fab.

cycleclinic

i love tubeless but i am using different tyres to all of you. using conto gp4000s tyres seems like going back in time. however i dont get the 29's i have ordered. i think/know production capasity for tubeless tyres is no where near high enough to meet demand and demand while growing is not huge.

As for discs vs rim brakes i use both and i like both. discs though are way more practical but i really need to change to spyres to something better but the cost stops me. shimano's hydraulic systems are a bit too pricey for me. The xtr brakes on my mtb's are cheaper and awesome.

jack264

Gonna re setup following their guides again, don't expect much. But will let figure out how to change the pads anyway, good for future reference regardless.

But heres two pictures of the pads from the front.

http://i.imgur.com/p1L48pp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yztVwAG.jpg

Gonna put it back together in a bit, then wait on a couple of responses, then I'll decide what to do, unless it miraculously fixes itself. I do however have pretty much the cleanest bike I've had in years from this!

Should I get a bleed kit on eBay? Seem relatively cheap, and may be useful long term? Any suggestions.

Don't get this started on different tyres which I've never even tried, I was thinking of getting some Stans Notubes wheels

ugo.santalucia

don't bleed... if it doesn't work, send it back

ugo.santalucia

A review of all the disc brakes I have owned

https://whosatthewheel.com/2017/05/05/m ... -a-review/

jack264

Good read, appreciate it. For road at least, I won't be going near discs for a while, especially how much of an issue this is doing for me. But I like them on my MTB, and do want to persevere with my CX...

Anyway, back to this issue, I'm of the belief now it's the pistons not moving anywhere near enough, I've bled them out and refilled, but they still just revert back to their original state as were, they DO move when you press the lever, but simply not enough to do any actual braking.

I'm not really sure at this point how to fix this issue, as I've refilled and re setup following their own videos bang on, it can't be the cable really.....just something to do with the pistons.

ugo.santalucia

Sounds exactly like the problem I had... got mine replaced

tsarouxaz

http://fixitkastoria.blogspot.gr/search ... -results=1