Shimano Ultegra Di2 issues

huskie69

Bit of a stab in the dark ... but anyone familiar with Shimano Di2 troubleshooting? Got a problem with Ultegra Di2 at the moment - perfectly fine last week, pretty much full charge. This morning it's totally dead, no LEDs on the junction box when trying to test battery status, no charge indicator on either the junction box or charger when it's plugged in to charge.

Had a voltmeter on the battery and it's giving me about 7.5v. Had a chat with my LBS who said they wouldn't be able to take a look until at least next week - and short of checking the cables which I've done as best I can, they'd only hook it up to their Di2 diagnostics. Was so desperate I even went into Halfords - the workshop bloke's eyes just glazed over (should have expected it!). Anyone seen this issue before?

meanredspider

Tell us a bit more. Internal or external battery? from what I can tell, it's an internal battery.

Based on that (and that the battery isn't flat-lining on your meter), I'd say they is a continuity issue between the battery and the junction box - most likely a loose connection. If you have the capability, check each of the connections along that route.

I know everyone likes to hide their Di2 battery but, based upon what I see on here and what I know of my 3 systems (2 external and one internal), I'd go external battery every time.

huskie69

meanredspider wrote:

Tell us a bit more. Internal or external battery? from what I can tell, it's an internal battery.

Hi, it's an internal battery slotted into the seatpost.

I took the meter reading from the other end of the cable - which slots directly into the junction box at the handlebars. I have to say, the reading was pretty 'iffy' as the connector is so tiny - I had to use an "assistant". Every now and then I got a reading which settled at about 7.5v before I lost it again due to having crap shaky hands.

Could there be another junction box buried in the bike somewhere? As I'm wondering what the derailleurs plug into? I've flipped the bike upside down and there's a small section underneath the bottom bracket which can be removed. I can't see any other junction boxes here, only a Di2 cable which I think is coming from the rear derailleur.

meanredspider

Yes - there's a main junction connector located in the bottom bracket. So cable from the battery to that box and then there's a cable up to the junction box with lights.

trailflow

There is a another junction in the BB. It will be stuffed into the down tube,seat tube or the chainstay. It is smaller in size compared to than the junction A at the stem.

It looks like this. It has 2 ports on each side


Check all 4 connectionss havn't come loose.

Also check the battery connector at the base of the battery.

They may not be fully seated and clicked in all the way. You will hear a distinct 'pop' type noise when they are.

huskie69

meanredspider wrote:

Yes - there's a main junction connector located in the bottom bracket. So cable from the battery to that box and then there's a cable up to the junction box with lights.

Cool, I had a feeling there might be. I'll have another fiddle around there and see if I can get at it.

huskie69

trailflow wrote:

There is a another junction in the BB. It will be stuffed into the top tube,seat tube or the chainstay. It is smaller in size compared to than the junction A at the stem.

It looks like this. It has 2 ports on each side


Check all 4 connectionss havn't come loose.

Also check the battery connector at the base of the battery.

They may not be fully seated and clicked in all the way. You will hear a distinct 'pop' type noise when they are.

Thanks. I had the BB "port/hatch" open but there's a strut restricting access to anything further in (I can't even get my finger in to poke the wires).

The battery is seatpost mounted and a single cable feeds from it to what I think is the downtube (I haven't shone a torch down there to see what's going on yet). If I were to pull this cable, is there a chance this 4 port jucntion box would be accessible or should it be accessed via the BB port?

huskie69

Just found this: https://www.competitivecyclist.com/learn/demystifying-di2

Dura-Ace specific but it gives some indication as to where junction box B might be located.

Definitely need to shine a big torch down there and see where it is

EDIT: Just seen this: https://girodilento.com/shimano-ultegra-6870-di2-11-speed-install-early-riding-impressions/

Looks like I have to remove the cranks!

bbrap

huskie69 wrote:

Just found this: https://www.competitivecyclist.com/learn/demystifying-di2

Dura-Ace specific but it gives some indication as to where junction box B might be located.

Definitely need to shine a big torch down there and see where it is

EDIT: Just seen this: https://girodilento.com/shimano-ultegra-6870-di2-11-speed-install-early-riding-impressions/

Looks like I have to remove the cranks!

And the bottom bracket. Shining a torch down the seat tube will not help as there will not be enough slack in the wires to be able to do anything. Take off the cranks and the BB and all will become clear.

huskie69

bbrap wrote:

Take off the cranks and the BB and all will become clear.

Bollocks, didn't realise the BB had to come out too. Might have to goto the LBS afterall as I doubt I'll be able to remove the PF86 without breaking something!

trailflow

You might not need to take the bb out as long as it doesn't have a full plastic tube piece going all the way through the bb preventing you from accessing the holes. If you reach inside the bb with your fingers you should be able to reach inside the holes to grab the wires.

If there is a full plastic tube piece in the way then yes you would need to remove the pressfit bb.

JesseD

Have you had the seatpost out at any point prior to the system going dead?

I did this and crushed the wire from the battery to the internal junction box which killed the system as no power was going anywhere. I bought a new cable with the idea of doing it myself only to realise that I couldn't get to the box in the downtube without removing the BB386 bottom bracket (I didn't have the tools), so ended up taking it to my LBS who removed the BB, fitted the cable that I had bought from them originally and then put it all back together for me (whilst taking the pish out of me for my mistake)!

If you have not removed the seatpost then its either a dud battery, a dud cable from the battery or a lose battery cable connection at the battery or the junction box.

meanredspider

This is one of the multiple reasons I'd choose an external battery. Sod the aesthetics

robbo2011

meanredspider wrote:

This is one of the multiple reasons I'd choose an external battery. Sod the aesthetics

This is one of the multiple reasons why I would chose a wireless based system

meanredspider

robbo2011 wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

This is one of the multiple reasons I'd choose an external battery. Sod the aesthetics

This is one of the multiple reasons why I would chose a wireless based system

So you could enjoy 4 battery issues?

CiB

Di2 isn't cheap and benefits from being checked & updated when necessary, so you might want to invest in the Shimano diagnostic kit PCE1. Everything is relative, but I paid just over £100 for it a couple of years ago and haven't regretted it.It displays a map of the system when connected and flags up any pending updates and none-working parts of same.

As a one-off cost it beats having to present yourself at the LBS asking them to do a check for errors or updates.

Re the original problem, if you do get it apart eyeball each connector under bright light through a magnifying glass or someone's glasses. The way you describe getting a voltage momentarily suggests that a poor connection could be an issue, and corroded or bent connector pins can cause that. Or it might not be that. The bus system is susceptible to poor connections so each plug & socket needs to be clean & properly connected, and like the earlier poster said - it should latch positively into place. Use the supplied tool to do this.

bbrap

CiB wrote:

Di2 isn't cheap and benefits from being checked & updated when necessary, so you might want to invest in the Shimano diagnostic kit PCE1. Everything is relative, but I paid just over £100 for it a couple of years ago and haven't regretted it.It displays a map of the system when connected and flags up any pending updates and none-working parts of same.

As a one-off cost it beats having to present yourself at the LBS asking them to do a check for errors or updates.

Re the original problem, if you do get it apart eyeball each connector under bright light through a magnifying glass or someone's glasses. The way you describe getting a voltage momentarily suggests that a poor connection could be an issue, and corroded or bent connector pins can cause that. Or it might not be that. The bus system is susceptible to poor connections so each plug & socket needs to be clean & properly connected, and like the earlier poster said - it should latch positively into place. Use the supplied tool to do this.

If I plug my PC into the little power connector under the stem and run up the E-Tube project software I get access to all the info on what is connected and how it is configured. I also enables software updates and tweaks to shifting. I did not have to buy anything just download the E-Tube software. What does the diagnostics kit do that this stuff does not? I've never needed anything else (Ultegra 6870 if that makes a difference).

huskie69

Thanks all

I used the e-tube software last night (didn't realise I didn't need the PCE1 diagnostics box - I just use my charger.

I got this:



So I've narrowed it down to either tha cable or the battery. I'm taking it into an LBS today so they can take out the BB and check to see that the cable hasn't worked itself lose of the junction box B. If all seems good, I'll be requesting a new battery (SM-BTR2) from either Merlin (where I bought it from) or Shimano directly.

meanredspider

I can't tell from that but wonder if you can see the FD and RD (are they off the bottom of the screen?)

If you can then it really does narrow it down to that one wire or the battery.

huskie69

meanredspider wrote:

I can't tell from that but wonder if you can see the FD and RD (are they off the bottom of the screen?)

If you can then it really does narrow it down to that one wire or the battery.

Yep, FD and RD are both fine so it really must be either the battery pack or that cable. I'll run a continuty test on the cable while the BB is out just to eliminate it. I really can't accept it's the cable though as it never moves, the seatpost has never been adjusted and I'm getting a small voltage at junction box A of about 0.86v.

meanredspider

Yup - though don't underestimate the chance of it not having been assembled properly. It's incredibly common on shifters and the cables take quite a push to seat properly. The alternative is that you've a bit of water collection in your BB? Good luck with it - let us know what you find as we're all learning.

CiB

bbrap wrote:

If I plug my PC into the little power connector under the stem and run up the E-Tube project software I get access to all the info on what is connected and how it is configured. I also enables software updates and tweaks to shifting. I did not have to buy anything just download the E-Tube software. What does the diagnostics kit do that this stuff does not? I've never needed anything else (Ultegra 6870 if that makes a difference).

Just saw this. You're right, the internal battery setup has the right connectivity to allow direct connection to the pc and Etube s/w. External battery requires this additonal box. It's a scam tbh, a plastic box the size of a box of matches with a usb at one end and Di2 plug at the other, and I suspect v little between the two other than a simple conversion process.

The s/w produces the map in the images above, and has saved me a couple of times, as well as allowing checks for updates when it suits without queueing in the shop. Scam maybe, but I'd rather have it than not.

huskie69

Just to quickly update this thread - I got hold of a Di2 battery from eBay for about £30 as an interim measure while the original battery was sent to Merlin Cycles for a warranty inspection. They sent out a replacement the next day which was reassuring - obviosuly a bit worrying that the battery could just compeltely fail like that but thank god for Shimano's 2 year warranty!

kingstonian

Just stumbled across this thread. I’ve started having Di2 issues, on the past 2 rides it has just stopped working with no warning mid-ride, leaving me to single speed it all the way home. Both times my LBS have looked at it and can’t find a fault as when it is plugged into a power source it wakes up and starts working again. Battery is fine and fully charged, the LBS have updated the Di2 software to the latest version, the diagnostic software can see all the units and doesn’t identify a problem so both the LBS and I are at a loss as to what the problem is.

I did think it may be a loose connection but that doesn’t align to the system waking up when plugged into a laptop (or wall socket - basically any power source).

Any ideas ???

huskie69

Kingstonian wrote:

Just stumbled across this thread. I’ve started having Di2 issues, on the past 2 rides it has just stopped working with no warning mid-ride, leaving me to single speed it all the way home. Both times my LBS have looked at it and can’t find a fault as when it is plugged into a power source it wakes up and starts working again. Battery is fine and fully charged, the LBS have updated the Di2 software to the latest version, the diagnostic software can see all the units and doesn’t identify a problem so both the LBS and I are at a loss as to what the problem is.

I did think it may be a loose connection but that doesn’t align to the system waking up when plugged into a laptop (or wall socket - basically any power source).

Any ideas ???

Funnily enough, I had a similar issue again a few weeks ago - I'd lose the ability to change gear for a few mins and then it would all spring back to life. On a particularly grueling climb, I was stuck without any low gears, had to get off, remove seat post, disconnect and reconnect the battery, and change into a low gear before putting the seat post back it - and then clip back in on a nasty gradient !! It turned out that although the connection to the battery seemed snug, the act of pushing the seat post back into the frame was tugging at the connector and breaking the connector. There was too much tension on the connector and that was subsequently casuing it to tug a bit when the bike was jolted. I had to get my LBS to fit a new (much shorter) cable from from the junction box in near the bottom bracket to the battery. So it could just be a dodgy battery connection that just can't be diagnosed as it's not under riding conditions.

Failing that, is the bike still under warranty or did you add Di2 to it along the way? If the whole lot's under warranty, I'd get it RTM or wherever it came from. Let them deal with it.

kingstonian

No, I’ve had it almost 4 years now so out of warranty.

Took it out for a spin this morning and within 2kms it shut down again. Have taken it to the LBS and they’re going to take it apart and figure out what’s wrong. The only thing we haven’t checked yet is the junction box in the bottom bracket so they’ll be removing the cranks etc. It is all very strange.

noodleman

Can't offer a diagnosis but my solution is to rip the pile of crap out and get etap HRD. I've had 3 years of endless problems with mine. Dead batteries, non charging issues, rapid discharging, faulty rear mechs, non shifting, and now I'm on my replacement system I'm having more of the same.
I know others have had no problems but there must be a few lemons out there and I've been unfortunate to suffer with two. For me there's just too many ways for it to go wrong. Bad connections, water ingress, kinked wires, faulty batteries and dodgy junction boxes. I realise there's etap users out there who've had issues but it's a lot easier to diagnose the problem on etap. Wish I'd never seen di2.

kingstonian

So took it for a ride again today, and the same problem surfaced. My LBS, who have been great, fitted a new battery and said said they’re pretty sure that is what is causing the problem but if for some reason it doesn’t fix it they’ll give me a full refund. I did take it for a quick spin and everything seemed to work ok, so I’m taking it on my commute tomorrow to give it a proper workout.

Fingers crossed it behaves.......

StillGoing

Well seeing how that list on the left are all batteries, then I'd say yes, battery or cable connection.