Prize for going downhill a bit quicker (than everyone else)

josame
josame Posts: 1,162
edited May 2017 in Pro race
I spent an age on that title

Reckless decision by the organisers - which could be a marketing nightmare

other opinions welcome..

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/giro-di ... o-stelvio/
'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'
«13

Comments

  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    Mental. I was hoping the riders would ignore it, but the classification winner will get the same as the best climber, so some are bound to go for it.

    Given recent history, not least in the Giro, it's almost inexplicable.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,031
    Hmmm, part of me thinks this is the best innovation since they had a downhill time trial, but the bigger part thinks it probably isn't the right thing to do. Risk is a part of bike racing and it does add to the excitement but this doesn't sit quite right with me.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    [Troll]Disc brake marketing ploy[/Troll] :wink:
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,642
    :D

    I don't think I have an issue with this... and the safety warriors all loved that footage of Cancellara weaving through the cars on whatever descent it was. By current standards he ought to be banned for setting a bad example and all those cars should have been moved from the peloton.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,532
    I imagine some sprinters will like this.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,398
    Inrng suggesting the winner quite likely to come from the grupetto since they tend to descend extremely fast to make up time. Which means a lot of the "winning" descents might not even be on TV.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,704
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Hmmm, part of me thinks this is the best innovation since they had a downhill time trial, but the bigger part thinks it probably isn't the right thing to do. Risk is a part of bike racing and it does add to the excitement but this doesn't sit quite right with me.

    The viewing fan's eternal conundrum.
    How often in the recent past has one read posts in the various cycling forum begging for organisers to add more "exciting" mountain descent finishes?
    Along comes this innovation and many of the same folks then complain about it being too dangerous.
    We sure are a fickle bunch. :lol:
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,031
    dish_dash wrote:
    :D

    I don't think I have an issue with this... and the safety warriors all loved that footage of Cancellara weaving through the cars on whatever descent it was. By current standards he ought to be banned for setting a bad example and all those cars should have been moved from the peloton.

    I thought Cancellera's descent was just an example of how a great descender can be very fast but still in control. This innovation seems to me to be different, descending is about skill but it is also about how much risk you are willing to take. Risk goes from being an unavoidable part of the sport to being integral - it becomes an extreme sport.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    Seems like a pretty poor idea all round really.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    As Rich has pointed out; they don't have to go for it.

    And yes, all the fastest descenders aren't on camera.
    _
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    “@giroditalia Its not that long ago that we lost our friend and college Wouter Weylandt in a descent crash.Should this happen again?! NO!!!,” wrote Bora-Hansgrohe’s Marcus Burghardt.

    One of the many, justified, compliants.
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,642
    If we're talking risks, presumably this finish should be canned because the winner will want to descend faster than anyone else...

    T16_Bormio_alt_web.jpg
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    As Rich has pointed out; they don't have to go for it.

    And yes, all the fastest descenders aren't on camera.
    And I don't think they'll go for it in the way people think they will. I think that generally the break descends faster than the peloton, so contenders will go in the break. Either that or they'll allow themselves to be dropped from the peloton/gruppetto near the summit and then catch up on the descent, so they gain time. (It's always easier to catch up to the back of a large group than attack off the front of it)

    I don't think we'll see kamikaze solo efforts.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,031
    dish_dash wrote:
    If we're talking risks, presumably this finish should be canned because the winner will want to descend faster than anyone else...

    T16_Bormio_alt_web.jpg

    No because that is an integral part of the race - the first person from A-B - I think if the Giro or Tour ended ten stages down technical descents it might be criticised. In other words because we accept an element of risk isn't an argument for saying all risk is acceptable.

    This downhill classification is taking the most dangerous part of a race and bigging it up. Also how many descents do we have where people really try and win the race downhill and how many riders are involved for how much of the descent?

    If this classification is taken seriously it multiplies the amount of riders and the amount of descents they are pushing the envelope on many times over.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    would you risk your neck for 500 notes? Even the overall at th end of the race only gets 5K. Doesn't seem worth it.
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • The_Boy
    The_Boy Posts: 3,099
    Surely the main argument against this is that it's just a shit idea that adds little to nothing of value to the race?
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,642
    The_Boy wrote:
    Surely the main argument against this is that it's just a shoot idea that adds little to nothing of value to the race?

    A bit of extra sponsorship at a time when Italian cycling is struggling...
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,455
    I like it and trust the pro's know and can handle the risks.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    edited May 2017
    dish_dash wrote:
    The_Boy wrote:
    Surely the main argument against this is that it's just a shoot idea that adds little to nothing of value to the race?

    A bit of extra sponsorship at a time when Italian cycling is struggling...

    Granted, but not an appropriate way to raise it IMO.

    Perhaps go the other way - most sportsman-like rider or similar (there might already be something like this, in fairness)

    Edit: there is a Fair Play award for the least fined/penalised team.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,760
    Is this the first segment time based prize? What chance there being one for going uphill as well soon?
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,325
    This actually makes me feel a little bit sick. I don't have a problem with people descending quickly - it's where sprinters stay in the race - but it tends to be about descending as fast as you can, not trying to descend faster than anyone else. The Giro has form for freakshow ascents already, and this feels like another attempt to drum up publicity without a second thought about either the riders or the quality of the racing. I fear someone will get injured.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • awavey
    awavey Posts: 2,368
    Salsiccia1 wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    The_Boy wrote:
    Surely the main argument against this is that it's just a shoot idea that adds little to nothing of value to the race?

    A bit of extra sponsorship at a time when Italian cycling is struggling...

    Granted, but not an appropriate way to raise it IMO.

    Perhaps go the other way - most sportsman-like rider or similar (there might already be something like this, in fairness)

    Edit: there is a Fair Play award for the least fined/penalised team.


    didnt one of the races have a green litter award once ? they stuck a bin past the feed zones and the team who chucked the most bidons in the bin won, which does takes a bit of skill :) instead of them just chucking them anywhere they liked like they normally do.

    a quickest descender award, its does it encourage unsafe descending risk taking thats the problem with it, as it feels like it does.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,449
    The UCI have requested that the Giro organisers drop this competition from the race.
  • The_Boy
    The_Boy Posts: 3,099
    dish_dash wrote:
    The_Boy wrote:
    Surely the main argument against this is that it's just a shoot idea that adds little to nothing of value to the race?

    A bit of extra sponsorship at a time when Italian cycling is struggling...

    A relative pittance, and when I was talking about bringing something of value I was talking about a sporting context. It's just a really fucking boring idea.
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    andyp wrote:
    The UCI have requested that the Giro organisers drop this competition from the race.

    Nice to see them show leadership on this. I hope RCS see sense.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,648
    Out of interest, how many descending accidents that have resulted in a DNF can people remember off the top of their head in the past 5 years?
    _
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    Contador in the Tour 2014?
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Out of interest, how many descending accidents that have resulted in a DNF can people remember off the top of their head in the past 5 years?
    Wouter Weylandts, Chad Young, Ilnur Zakarin, Alex Vinokourov, Nairo Quintana, Jens Voigt, (Mauricio Soler must be more than five years ago). Taylor Phinney (was that a descent?). Chaves?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,158
    It seems slightly bad taste to announce it so soon after Chad Young's crash. It just seems a completely pointless award, I can't see where it offers value to viewers due to the fact no-one is likely to see the performance on TV and the value for the sponsor will be limited too.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    Pross wrote:
    It just seems a completely pointless award, I can't see where it offers value to viewers due to the fact no-one is likely to see the performance on TV and the value for the sponsor will be limited too.
    That's my main objection to it. Unless Pirelli came up with this themselves they're not being served well.
    Twitter: @RichN95

Categories