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Internal cable routing heinous crime by manufacturers

kirkeekirkee Posts: 369
edited September 2019 in Campaign
Will the the bike industry ever stop the general nasty practice of building frames with internal cable routing? Why do they do it? Absolute backward step in performance, mechanically un friendly, in line barrel adjusters-totally gipping. They've all jumped on the same band wagon because 1 or 2 watts can be saved in a Swiss wind tunnel and if the bike isn't equiped with Di2 or EPS we will sell you all a bike that may look like it is from a distance, because thats what you all want? Bolloc£s.
Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will
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  • Alex99Alex99 Posts: 1,436
    kirkee wrote:
    Will the the bike industry ever stop the general nasty practice of building frames with internal cable routing? Why do they do it? Absolute backward step in performance, mechanically un friendly, in line barrel adjusters-totally gipping. They've all jumped on the same band wagon because 1 or 2 watts can be saved in a Swiss wind tunnel and if the bike isn't equiped with Di2 or EPS we will sell you all a bike that may look like it is from a distance, because thats what you all want? Bolloc£s.

    People buy it in full knowledge of this, because it looks nice. There is choice out there...
  • It looks better. I like that, so bought one. The end.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    On both my bikes I have all my cables on the outside where I can see them. That was just the way it was when I bought them, but I do appreciate the simplicity when it comes to maintenance / replacement. I'm proper old now, so I grew up with bikes looking like that.

    Doubt I'll be buying any more bikes in the forseeable future, but if I were I think I'd be a bit wary of entirely internal cables. It may give a clean, uncluttered look and match the appearance of pro bikes, but I've read a few posts from people having real problems with some bikes, and a Planet X frame effectively written off because the routing through the BB shell was terminally blocked. Heading for retirement and with failing eyesight I'm looking for an easy life. A drag reduction of 0.001W or trying to look pro are a long way down my list of priorities.

    The recent road bike trends for disc brakes, wider wheel rims and clearance for fatter tyres bring some real world benefits. Electronic shifting too for those with deeper pockets than me. But internal cabling? Not so much.
  • Alex99Alex99 Posts: 1,436
    It looks better. I like that, so bought one. The end.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not immune to that.
  • kirkeekirkee Posts: 369
    There is choice, but for cyclists who prefer ext cable routing the choice is narrowing. Its being decided for us. Very few new carbon frames are ext routed. There are slightly more alloy and steel frames that have it. Most of, if not all the big companies are all offering the same themed designs with their new bikes. Often its marketed as improvement. Aesthetics maybe, the other plusses of the design are doubtful or wrong. My old steel 90s frame had an internally set rear brake cable that used to rust in place. They then woke up to externally routed cables but have since moved back to the idea. The main trickle down benefit of this design is to bike mechanics and LBS's!
    Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    What you want is Etap. No gear cables. Sorted.
  • fenix wrote:
    What you want is Etap. No gear cables. Sorted.
    Will any new road bike have gear cables within, say, 5 years? I doubt it.
  • kirkeekirkee Posts: 369
    Well if the bike industry decides to force everyone into riding electronic group sets as they are doing with forcing customers to have internal cabling on new frames then possibly there will only be brake cables. I doubt it though.
    Don't get why they have gone internal across the industry, they're sheep, following a pointless and irritating fad that I hope will pass!
    Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will
  • cgfw201cgfw201 Posts: 669
    it looks better. never had an issue with recabling my canyon. whats the issue?!
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    It must be cheaper for them making a frame with holes instead of cable stops? Mind you, then they have to faff with the internal guide tubes and the initial cabling up must take a bit longer...
  • step83step83 Posts: 3,867
    I'm with cgfw201, its a non issue. Ive built a few bikes with internal routing I cant see any problems, its cleaner, cables are protected more from the elements (more applicable to mountain bikes) I can have fitted barrel adjusters mid cable which again is a non issue.
    I don't even use the approved tool, just a long narrow thing that the frame had already poking out.

    I think pressfit BBs are a bigger issue than internal cabling
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 15,959
    fenix wrote:
    What you want is Etap. No gear cables. Sorted.
    Will any new road bike have gear cables within, say, 5 years? I doubt it.

    Seriously? I wouldn't take any bets on that if I was you. There are still bikes made with down tube shifters.

    Personally, I think external cables look better than internal - matter of opinion like everything!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    Electronic shifting is already the default for pro riders, and no doubt as it becomes cheaper it will become more common among enthusiastic amateurs and leisure riders. I don't think mechanical is about to become extinct any time soon though, but it will slowly drift down to the cheaper end of the market.

    If you were doing a new build would you go for mechanical Dura Ace or Ultegra Di2?
  • john1967john1967 Posts: 366
    cgfw201 wrote:
    it looks better. never had an issue with recabling my canyon. whats the issue?!

    DITTO on my scott, love it :D
  • milemuncher1milemuncher1 Posts: 1,472
    I quite like finding new and ingenious ways to make re cabling an internally routed bike as easy as conventional cabling. I've got some cracking good techniques going on.
  • ZMC888ZMC888 Posts: 292
    I just bought a Fiji SL a few months ago and did my first ever internal re-cabling. I wouldn't say it was a synch and took a fair few hours, but for me at least it was worth it.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    Internal cabling looks much better. Provided you prepare properly, it usually goes without problem. A good length of cotton, a vacuum, a cut off length of inner cable and some sleeves are usually enough to sort any issues encountered.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • kirkeekirkee Posts: 369
    philthy3 wrote:
    Internal cabling looks much better. Provided you prepare properly, it usually goes without problem. A good length of cotton, a vacuum, a cut off length of inner cable and some sleeves are usually enough to sort any issues encountered.
    I quite like finding new and ingenious ways to make re cabling an internally routed bike as easy as conventional cabling. I've got some cracking good techniques Young on.
    Ideal. Internally routed frames- provide a challenge/enjoyable puzzle and you may also require a spare hoover!
    Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will
  • To be honest, I totally understand the asthetic appeal
  • Mad_MalxMad_Malx Posts: 4,031
    fenix wrote:
    What you want is Etap. No gear cables. Sorted.
    Will any new road bike have gear cables within, say, 5 years? I doubt it.

    For non racers I don't get the appeal of electronic shifting, never mind wireless. Yet another gizmo that may run out of juice and susceptible to water. Part of the beauty of well engineered mechs is that no batteries are needed.

    On topic though: I think internals look better.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,036
    keef66 wrote:
    If you were doing a new build would you go for mechanical Dura Ace or Ultegra Di2?

    Mechanical Dura Ace. I don't really get the attraction of electronic shifting, nice to have the option for those that want it but personally I would rather have a decent mechanical groupset. I'd rather have external cabling and rim brakes too.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • LookyhereLookyhere Posts: 987
    On my Look 595 the internal routing is p1ss easy, as the frame has internal guides, so no super thin tubing required etc

    Its down to design or lack of. amazing that a small company like Look can get it right but many much larger makers cannot.
  • kirkeekirkee Posts: 369
    Lookyhere wrote:
    On my Look 595 the internal routing is p1ss easy, as the frame has internal guides, so no super thin tubing required etc

    Its down to design or lack of. amazing that a small company like Look can get it right but many much larger makers cannot.
    I had a KG 241 frameset years back, the quality of the frame was excellent (had an internally routed rear brake cable too). Im not surprised that your Look frames well designed. As you say, thats the problem, some manufacturers are being half @rsed with the cable detail in their designs. Internal routing can be good, if its done well. If it's required in the first place?!
    Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will
  • SHHHSHHH Posts: 22
    I have 2 bikes with external cabIes, super easy and very reliable shifting and easy maintenance. I also have internal cable routing on 2 other carbon bikes. One Aero frame and one TT. Internal routing on the Aero frame is relatively easy compared to the TT frame which has routing through the base bar + extensions. Any small tweak you need to make on the TT shifters and all the cables + bar tape need to be taken off. We're talking hours...zzzz. Complete nightmare.

    Got so fed up with internal mechanical TT shifters I installed Sram Red Etap. I was quite sceptical like many many of you here, doubting reliability in rain, batteries draining etc etc. The reality is that Etap is extremely reliable and does not break down. You also get 2 batteries that are interchangeable, so you're unlikely to be stuck without any shifting ability. Batteries last for months. In 4 months of more or less daily use I've never had a single missed shift in all types of terrain and weather. Sorry if it comes across as a Sram advert, but it's worked out better than expected, I was taken by surprise how good it is. Best decision ever made. I was considering di2, but I liked Etap's two batteries and wireless solution better. I hear people say di2 is slightly quicker though, but have not used it myself.
  • Bumo_bBumo_b Posts: 211
    Well designed internal routing is no problem. Had a Focus and that was a nightmare, Bianchi a walk in the park. I agree with Step83, pressfit BBs are a far bigger crime, thank God for conversions.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    Why is this in Campaign by the way?
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • kirkeekirkee Posts: 369
    Why is this in Campaign by the way?
    Good question and I dont know why. Seemed like a good idea at the time?!
    Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    kirkee wrote:
    Why is this in Campaign by the way?
    Good question and I dont know why. Seemed like a good idea at the time?!

    the same could be said about my ex, and we can all guess how that ended ......
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • I think pressfit BBs are a bigger issue than internal cabling[/quote]

    My Boardman Pro Carbon slr has a pressfit BB and it is definately noticeably louder than other BBs.

    As for internal cabling, while I wouldn't say that it is a 'heinous crime', I would say that it makes recabling take a phenomenally long time (at least for me and my trial and error methods of getting it through) and I do wish that there were more options without internal cabling.
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,690
    routed my first internal cabled bike at the weekend, it was if anything easier than any bike i've setup before, mind you it had those cable liners in place whereas my CAAD12 frameset didnt so i took that to the LBS
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
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