Trek Domane ALR / Lower end carbon - Balanced?
Big_Jack
Posts: 82
Hi all, looking for some advice on the lower-budget Domanes. I'm looking at one, and test riding tomorrow (only able to ride briefly, 10/15 mins). I am also going to ride an Emonda of similar price.
Looking at these bikes as a replacement for my CAAD8 which I am admitting finally is the wrong size and is causing pain / feels wrong.
Reviews of the new domane with front and rear isospeed tend to discuss the old bike (only rear iso) feeling unbalanced, too stiff at the front compared to the rear.
Does this problem still exist in the new domanes which still only have a rear isospeed (if having isospeed at the rear only was the issue)? Would love to hear owners opinions.
Cheers,
Jack
Looking at these bikes as a replacement for my CAAD8 which I am admitting finally is the wrong size and is causing pain / feels wrong.
Reviews of the new domane with front and rear isospeed tend to discuss the old bike (only rear iso) feeling unbalanced, too stiff at the front compared to the rear.
Does this problem still exist in the new domanes which still only have a rear isospeed (if having isospeed at the rear only was the issue)? Would love to hear owners opinions.
Cheers,
Jack
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I have the ALR Domane as my winter bike, mine is the 105 disc model. Summer bike is an Emonda SLR.
I have to admit I don't notice the rear isospeed, apart from riding position I don't know if I could tell the difference in a blind test.
Anyhow, the ALR is a good bike. I'm very happy with mine. I prefer the riding position of the Emonda (mine is the H1 fit). But I like the fact that I can fit nice wide tyres to the Domane.
I don't notice any difference between the front end being too stiff versus the rear end.
The Domane ALR disc isn't the lightest bike in the world, but it's still really good fun.
I'm rather sold on disc brakes, so if my option was one bike for year round (UK) riding it would be the Domane disc. Not necessarily for the braking but the tyre clearance, up to 40mm slicks.0 -
w00dster wrote:I have to admit I don't notice the rear isospeed, apart from riding position I don't know if I could tell the difference in a blind test.
That's very interesting, you don't notice it at all? Would you expect a 28mm shod Emonda to be more comfortable than a 25mm shod Domane? (trying to get some perspective). Also, presumably the Emoda is a racier position for you and you find this suits you better?
I was considering the ALR Disc - I am 100% convertd to disc brakes, but I don't want to haul a seriously heavy bike around, nor splash out on new wheels when my campag zondas are perfectly fine & i also tend to take to the mountain bike when it's wet.
Thanks for your input w00dster, really appreciated.
Any other comments also useful, I'm sure
Jack0 -
Bike journalists have to find something to fill the pages.A recent review of a 2016 Domane does refer to the "old"Domane as being "unbalanced".
When they reviewed the Domane in 2013 they drooled over the frame for paragraphs. The opinion then was that " the isospeed fork complements the rear end".Nothing negative mentioned.
I have an "old" Domane 5.2. I like the bike ,it does soak up some of the road buzz but I don't think it gives a magic carpet ride. If I start thinking about it when riding I could consider it unbalanced but it is no where near being "a problem".
Ignore what you read. Ride one and form your own opinion.That is all that really matters.0 -
I've just bought a trek sl and run with 28mm tyres. I've come from and still ride a planetx stealth set up as a road bike on 25mm so in theory pretty harsh. Whilst there is a big difference between the two in comfort , I don't see it as a problem. In other words I think my trek might be overkill and the rear de coupler might be a bit pointless anyway. That said it's still a great bikes and with discs for me brilliant. Big tyres are the future, more comfort, more grip, less chance of pinch p.
Wooster, how do you manage to fit 40mm tyres, Ive got the frame clearance but the long swing arm of the front derailleur looks like it would meet the tyre?0 -
The 40mm tyres based on the info I was given from trek not personally tried that wide a tyre yet. Glad you mentioned there might be an issue as I've been looking to source a set of 40mm tyres for bike packing this summer.
I'm currently running two sets of tyres, 28mm Vittoria Corsa G+ and 35mm knobblies for off road.
The weight of my ALR with my lighter wheels and 28mm tyres is just over 8.5kgs.
Depending on your trails you could take the ALR out in the wet. Mine has done some decent forest trails and with the correct tyre is great fun.
The position on the Domane is relaxed, took me a good few rides to try and find a lower ride (longer stem helped). The Domane is Trek 's H2 position where as my Emonda is H1. In terms of comfort, I'm probably weird because I don't think i could tell too much of a difference between the two even on wide tyres. My Domane has done some long rides and the alu frame has been fine, not once have I felt uncomfortable or sore after a long ride.0 -
I am always suspicious when reviewers seem to be able to pinpoint which individual tube of the frame is stiffer and which one is more compliant... it sounds like a lot of bollox to be honestleft the forum March 20230
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^^This0
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ugo.santalucia wrote:I am always suspicious when reviewers seem to be able to pinpoint which individual tube of the frame is stiffer and which one is more compliant... it sounds like a lot of bollox to be honest
Yep, I get that feeling sometimes too (thanks as well to similar comment above).
As always, the hunt for questions is always answered with the truthful response of "ride it and find out".
I shall report back after my spin on both this lunch time! I have a feeling I'm going to prefer the Emonda because it'll be hyper direct and nippy, but I don't want to get the wrong bike and miss out on distance comfort of the Domane which I won't notice on a 15 min test ride.0 -
Big_Jack wrote:
I shall report back after my spin on both this lunch time! I have a feeling I'm going to prefer the Emonda because it'll be hyper direct and nippy, but I don't want to get the wrong bike and miss out on distance comfort of the Domane which I won't notice on a 15 min test ride.
Depends what you mean by distance... I have ridden very aggressive and slammed down frames for 8 hours and over 200 km with no problem at all... of course if you are talking things like a big 400 or 600 km Audax, that's differentleft the forum March 20230 -
Depends what you mean by distance... I have ridden very aggressive and slammed down frames for 8 hours and over 200 km with no problem at all... of course if you are talking things like a big 400 or 600 km Audax, that's different
To be honest, much smaller distances. Generally 50 miles with the occasional century (pushing hard for me, I don't like cruising). Comfort is becoming a factor in this purchase as my CAAD8 hurts me, although this could be due to poor fit & wrong frame size for my proportions. Additionally, I'd like to start commuting to work which is 25 miles each way with a potential cindertrack section.
Perhaps I am overstating my needs of comfort for my relatively short rides.0 -
Right, test ride complete. I tried the base model aluminium Domane and Emonda. Summary thoughts (writing this out is catharsis..):
- Both bikes feel nicer/smoother than my CAAD8 with 25s, despite the Emonda being on 23s.
- The Domane felt very smooth, and deadened things a bit. I didn't 'notice' the isospeed decoupler, and comfort could have been due to the 28s (thoughts on this please, as I have never run 28s?).
- The domane felt like it rolled better somehow, difficult to place why. 28s?
- I preferred the urgency of the Emonda to the Domane, as expected for a race bike.
- The real surprise was how much stronger the Domane brakes were, being direct mount (another first try for me).
In summary, I preferred the ride feel/stiffness of the Emonda, but the comfort and especially the brakes from the Domane are making it feel like the option. Only thing holding me back was because the ride is so different on the Domane, it was difficult to feel if it was as nippy as my CAAD.
Inane wafflings complete. Any comments extremely welcome - at the mo I am feeling the Domane a bit more.
Cheers,
Jack0 -
Big_Jack wrote:Right, test ride complete. I tried the base model aluminium Domane and Emonda. Summary thoughts (writing this out is catharsis..):
- Both bikes feel nicer/smoother than my CAAD8 with 25s, despite the Emonda being on 23s.
- The Domane felt very smooth, and deadened things a bit. I didn't 'notice' the isospeed decoupler, and comfort could have been due to the 28s (thoughts on this please, as I have never run 28s?).
- The domane felt like it rolled better somehow, difficult to place why. 28s?
- I preferred the urgency of the Emonda to the Domane, as expected for a race bike.
- The real surprise was how much stronger the Domane brakes were, being direct mount (another first try for me).
In summary, I preferred the ride feel/stiffness of the Emonda, but the comfort and especially the brakes from the Domane are making it feel like the option. Only thing holding me back was because the ride is so different on the Domane, it was difficult to feel if it was as nippy as my CAAD.
Inane wafflings complete. Any comments extremely welcome - at the mo I am feeling the Domane a bit more.
Cheers,
Jack
I ride 28... much better suited to the rough British tarmac than smaller sizes. If you can find a like for like, they are as fast as 23 and only very marginally heavier... you'd probably use the same inner tube if you use one. Only downside of 28 is that there is less choice among the top end tyres, whereas 23 are ubiquitousleft the forum March 20230 -
^^
Agree with you there ugo, there's less choice in 28mm but since conti gps come in 28 who needs a choice of any other?
Jack, remember, what feels faster may not actually be faster, remember the days of pumping tyres up to silly psi because it felt faster. Turns out the tyres were bouncing all over the road and were slower. I've got a suspicion that even though I've said I don't particularly notice the comfort advantage of my domane, I reckon it's probably quicker over rough roads because I can push it harder.
Have a look at the gcn YouTube where they compare riding the cobbles on a mtb, x bike and road bike, very surprising results.0 -
Thanks Chris, I did see that - and as my road bike is a training tool for my muddy preference, i couldn't help but laugh
Not sure my enduro rig would have been that fast, however..
You're right, I think I will get the Domane if only because I want to commute on it and i'd like to arrive feeling fresh.
New connundrum, aluminium version with dual pivot brakes, or carbon version with normal ones...0 -
Doesn't the Base Model Domane Disc come with Bontrager R1 32's and not 28? My ALR did.
I have to admit I swapped out my R1's as soon as I could, I've had a lot of experience with Bontrager tyres, the R1s are good commuter tyres, but they are not what I would call a "fast" tyre. I also fitted my Domane out with Bontrager Guards and ran with the stock 32 tyres for a couple of weeks, the guards came off when I decided on using wider knobbly tires.
I've just read on a US Gravel Grinding Forum about a chap there with 38s on his Domane (carbon frame) but running Maxis Rambler tyres - not slicks but not really knobbly either. I was interested in Compass 35 Bon Jon Pass tyres as these are slick and appear to come up slightly larger than 35, unfortunately can't seem to get these in the UK at the moment.
I guess as someone who rides both the Emonda and the Domane I can comment about the "urgency" you mention of the Emonda. Out of the box (so set up by the bikeshop) the Domane is sportive ready, by that I mean it takes a number of rides to dial in a decent "racey" position (and to get rid of the spacers). The Domane has an upright riding position, my Emonda is the H1 so has a much lower front end. This is great for me as I race crits and very rarely do I do rides in excess of 70 miles.
One thing I really like about the Domane though is the Shimano Brake levers, these are ideal for me, allows me to rest my arms along the length of the bars but still be in control of the bike and have easy access to the levers when needed.
In terms of comfort, as I mentioned earlier it must be me as I just don't notice the difference. I personally really enjoy both bikes, they are different and have different purposes. The Emonda is a very light fast bike, the Domane is heavier but not a beast and it brings to the table different riding options.
No idea if the below links work, but they are the Domane with 33c Bontrager Cyclocross tyres. You can see the clearance with the wide tyre. Angle isn't great, happy to upload some new photo's if wanted.
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Thanks again w00dster, really useful info. I don't think I'd be able to get the knobblies on the rim version though? Perhaps if I can find a smaller diameter one although personally don't think I will need them as I only really intend to use it on the road or minor cinder track for very brief spells.
My current thoughts are towards the Domane (alu vs carbon depends on any sort of deal from the shop), with my campagnolo zonda wheels and some racier tyres which should help with a bit of speed and bring it more in line with the emonda I tested?
As I don't race I can dial the position to be relatively racy and the benefit of 28s appeal. I'd like to get a bike fit too, so I can hopefully inform them of my preference when doing it.
I'm not going to get discs as I just can't afford the extra especially when I know I'll also want to upgrade the wheels.
Cheers, Jack0 -
Just to confuse matters you can fit 28s on the Emonda. My wife has a carbon Emonda running Bontrager AW28s, I've also used them on my SLR.
So rim brake version....Emonda for me. I'd also go for the ALR Emonda over lower grade carbon, but that's personal choice based on my riding. I don't think there is enough of a benefit in comfort of the isospeed when going rim brakes.
I'm loosely affiliated with Trek and I keep getting drawn to an Emonda ALR. I'm actually tempted to sell the Domane, not because I don't like it, but because it looks like we can't race on disc brakes again next year.
If you want any pics of the carbon Emonda clearances with the 28s let me know. I'm visiting my local trek supplier tomorrow so will also see what they say about 28s on the Emonda ALR.
Sorry this doesn't help!0 -
Hi w00dster, thank you *again*! I agree for alu over low grade carbon, but I was just going to see what sort of price I could get for it. In my head I like alu for easier crash inspection although thats probably psychological.
If you have pics to hand then that'd be great but I trust you that they'd work. I could pop back into the shop tomorrow, and ask them to try the 28mm wheels from the Domane in the emonda frame (as they're both 10spd tiagra) and see what it looks like? They seem flexible enough to do that.
Any info you can also garner would be appreciated!
Jack0 -
Woodster, how much clearance have you got with the front derailleur with those wide cross tyres on?
I pretty much agree with everything you say about the domane. Bin the spacers and a-17 stem for me and I could still go lower and the stock tyres are probably not as fast as contis.0 -
Chris, will put them on the Domane tomorrow and take some pics. My winter cross ride is a 40 mile route, had no issues with clearance, or none that I noticed anyway.0
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Hi Guys,
With the Bontrager CX 33's I would say there appears to be about 1.5cm of space between the tyre and the front derailleur when on the little ring.
Here's a copy of the photo I took this morning, its hard to get the angle right so you can see the exact measurement while I also took the photo - needed another hand!
Also I've tried to show a side by side view for geometry purposes. Both bikes are a 52, I'm 5 foot 8 for reference.
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Here's also a couple of pics of the wife's Emonda SL (carbon 105 version) showing the clearances with Bontrager AW28 tyres.
Angles aren't great but there's a fair bit of room either side.
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Thanks w00dster, it does look like plenty of room for 28s on the Emonda.
I had tentatively decided on the Domane for any extra comfort the decoupler adds and also the dual pivot brakes on the alu version were a bit improvement compared to the emonda & my CAAD. Those two factors combined would, I figure, negate the 3/400g weight penalty.
However, I am not averse to saving £200 and getting the Emonda. Perhaps putting that ££ towards a bike fit would yield more comfort than the decoupler ever could.
Thank you again for your help, you're really going to lengths! It's much appreciated.
Cheers,
Jack0 -
Where I have been saying "dual pivot brakes", i mean direct mount!!0
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Performance wise I personally don't notice the difference between normal rim or direct mount - my commuter has normal 105 rim brakes and I don't notice anything different between that and my Direct Mount SLR, the only slight downside I've experienced in 15 months of running the SLR is that the direct mount are a bit more difficult to clean behind.
The RRP for the Domane ALR 4 (Tiagra version) is £1200, the RRP for the Emonda ALR5 (105 version) is £1300. Both come in viper red (the fastest colour of course!).
The Emonda ALR5 is the Trek's premium 300 series aluminium (hydroformed and invisible welds). The Domane is 200 series aluminium. The Domane ALR4 has Tektro brakes, the Emonda is full 105.
Not sure if these are the models you are considering? The Emonda ALR4 is still 300 series aluminium and has tiagra brakes - I'd prefer the tiagra or the 105 brakes over the tektro model. The Domane also comes with an 11-32 as standard, mine was swapped out for an 11-28 as the 32 is overkill for my rides.
For me personally its the Emonda. Probably the 105 version, less to upgrade.
Being totally honest I think the Domane is slightly overpriced at full RRP. If the Domane Tiagra version was full Tiagra and priced closer to the grand, then its a good deal. But when it is £200 more expensive than the Emonda and slightly lower spec, then you are paying for the rear isospeed, which on the aluminium frame might not be worth the premium.
Only my opinion of course.0 -
I think you're right.
From some research, it sounds like the iso-speed isn't as effective on alu as it is on carbon bikes (its a slightly different mechanism?) in which case I would rather get the Emonda with a higher grade of alu with a 105 groupset (or save some quids and get tiagra).
Then whack some 28s on the Emonda and basically get the same ride quality. Also, a bike fit.
I would be sad to miss out on the brake improvement the direct mount tektro's seemed to provide (they felt much more powerful to me when testing). It could all be psychological - perhaps they just engaged faster and I can just squeeze the normal ones harder or wind more tension on. Or the tyres offered better braking feel? that feels like a stretch
Progress, finally!
Jack0 -
Woodster, on your second photo, have a look at the cable pinch bolt on the front derailleur, this looks perilously close to the rear wheel when you're in the small ring, surely this point will hit the wheel when on the big ring?0
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Damn, I can't put photos up from my MacBook, lets see if this works, if not I'll try again later from my laptop.
<a href="http://s1025.photobucket.com/user/w00dster/media/20170427_093546_zpsocsklw93.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y311/w00dster/20170427_093546_zpsocsklw93.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 20170427_093546_zpsocsklw93.jpg"/></a>
Or
http://s1025.photobucket.com/user/w00ds ... 3.jpg.html0 -
From the photo bucket photo...it's not the cage that will cause the problem, your safe there. It's the pinch bolt swinging in when you move the derailleur out onto the outside ring. It looks like you maybe ok with those tyres because they are not tall enough to hit the pinch bolt. Tall and wide tyres might cause you a problem? Hard to see from the photo though.0
