Not sure size is correct

alienmuppet

I've just got a Giant Defy 1 in Medium. I got it second hand, but got sized up at a few bikes shops. 2 of them said Medium, 2 said Medium/Large. The ones that said Medium thought the reach was a bit too long on the Medium/Large, the ones that said Medium/Large thought the saddle had to be too high on the Medium.

Anyway, a Medium came up for a good price, so thought I'd give it a try, knowing I can always sell it again if it isn't right.

I feel perhaps the saddle is too high for the bike. I feel like my center of gravity is too far forward over the handlebars. When descending, I feel unsteady and like I might fly over the top of the handlebars, though I'm fine climbing. The drops feel realllly low...

Granted, I am nearly 40 and used to a Mountain bike where the handlebars are higher than the saddle and I'm practically upright.. But perhaps the shops that said M/L were correct...

I feel like I want the handle bars more in front of me..

Having said that, when I look down I can see the hub of the front wheel nearer to me than the handebars, but that could be due to my high position. I've put a 90mm stem on it to try and remedy that, which granted seems the wrong thing to do on a bike that feels a little too small..

I've attached a couple of pics. Unfortunately I'm wearing baggy clothes Oddly it doesn't look how it feels in the photo. The photo looks like it fits pretty well to me :shock:

Oh.. I'm just under 5' 10", but think maybe I have a slightly odd shape?! Inseam is 32.5" (give or take a tiny bit).

kajjal

Road bikes are little different to mountain bikes.

Start with getting the saddle in the right place and ignore everything else. First with the pedal down in line with the seat tube and your foot level you want just a slight bend in your leg. The idea is you can lift yourself of the saddle in line with the seat tube a little. Best to be a little too low than high.

Next is the saddle fore / aft position. First on level ground make sure the saddle is level. Then read up on KOPS which will help you get the fore / after position of the saddle on the rails about right. You can then adjust as needed.

This may take a few attempts and rides to get spot on but the above will get it about right for you.

Good Luck

alienmuppet

Thanks I've actually looked into all of that. I've already reversed the stem, it's already at the top of the post. I've been playing with the saddle a fair bit but it hasn't made much difference. I feel like I'm squashing myself (if you get my drift) at the moment.. :oops: :shock:

SME

These are my own thoughts from looking at your pictures, especially #2 (and others may shoot me down for it).

Firstly the saddle looks to be ever so slightly tilted up. A more level saddle would effectively increase the saddle height without actually lifting the seat post, and also relieve any dis-comfort in the perenium - you may not notice this yet but the further leaning forward position over a mountain bikes position may induce this.

Next, the stem appears upside down and the handlebars appear to be tilted down a little. Turning the stem over and tilting the handlebars up (so the tops are level) effectively would keep the hoods in the same position but tilt the wrists back a bit. This would relax your forearms and allow you to sit back and then up a little.

If you then had the inclination to feel a little more 'roadie' then a slightly longer stem would drop you down a little (stretch you out a bit) while at the same time improving any stability issues you feel you may have. Most bikes have a level of stability built into them (can you push a bike by the saddle and steer by leaning it), shorter or longer stems just make them more or less twitchy or reactive.

As for feeling low on the drops, yeah, it's going to. If you're doing 30+mph downhill, sooner or later you'll probably want to get your body lower into the airstream (or even if you're battling a headwind) to go a bit quicker - that's why they're there. One of my prefered riding positions is grasping the hoods and resting my forearms on the bars behind them such that they're level.

All this is just from the pictures you've supplied. I don't know if it's helped but it may have given some food for thought. Everyone is different. Over time I've even dropped my handlebars 10mm and have considered even another 5mm.

Good luck,
Steve

alienmuppet

Thanks all.

I'm getting a Turbo Trainer soon so should be able to experiment a little more and take a better picture too while actually in motion.

My core strength is not great at the moment so that probably isn't helping..

SME - Yep I reversed the stem to get the handlebars a bit higher. This did improve things a lot. I also initially had the handlebars tilted higher, but too high. I think I've lowered them too much so I will raise them again as per your suggestion.

I've half thought of picking up the M/L version too so I can experiment, and then just keep the one that works out best. Since it's all done in the 2nd hand realm I shouldn't lose out much if at all... :roll:

SME

Just a thought...

Before I had my Trek I was riding a Carrera which was a size too big for me - I ended up with the stem 'upside down' to raise the handlebars. The bigger frame size had stretched me out and actually lowered me, quite uncomfortably too. A shorter stem did ease this predicament, but when I wanted a better bike I was actually recommended a frame size one step smaller. I get on my bike now and it just 'fits'. I play around with bar height a little, but this is just experiment with a more aero position and is not comfort issues - I still stay within my 'comfort zone'.

dj58

I don't think the seat post looks too high on the medium, after all you set it to the correct height for your leg length. You think that the saddle to bar drop is too big for you, this may be due to the fact that you are used to riding an MTB and a lack of flexibility in your torso.

You have flipped the stem up into the positive position and say this feels better, however you say you still feel squashed, I take it you mean not stretched out enough. In that case you could try a longer 110/120mm stem which would get you closer to the reach of the M/L, though you will still have a 2.5cm difference in the head tube lengths between the M and M/L.

Put the original 100mm Giant stem back on, flipped up into the positive position and give that a try first. If you still can't get on with the Medium frame, after trying a longer stem, then as you suggest go and sit on an M/L with the longer head tube, though you will probably need to fit a shorter stem if you are overreached.

svetty

Bike is probably too small TBH going from the pictures but not massively so. I'd suggest sliding the saddle back about a centimetre on the rails and then fitting an upturned 120mm stem.

Also work on your core so you can support yourself when in a relaxed, more horizontally inclined posture.

fenix

I think you're trying to take a MTB position onto a road bike. You dont need to.

Saddle is too low - you can go up a couple of inches. I think the rest of it is just getting used to the new position .

alienmuppet

Wow, a couple of inches? :shock: :shock: I thought a slight bend in the knee was correct in the position I'm in.. My leg would be locked I think a couple of inches higher, or my foot would be pointing down (bad). Isn't it Steve Hogg who said a lot of people are too high these days?

But yes, I am way too used to my MTB :roll:

It's odd though, it does seem to be a close thing.. some say the frame looks okay, some say too small

Hmm.

More photos to come soon which might shed some more light (in motion on a turbo trainer). I will obviously need to experiment myself too and try an M/L after giving the M some more time. I'll be in a better position to compare then. Perhaps if I can get my hands on an M/L I can show photos with both.

Thanks all for your help so far. I know it's a hard thing to judge!

kajjal

For the "squashing" look up measuring your sit bones to get the correct width saddle, assuming your saddle is level. If it is not about level it with either cause lower back pain or worse.

My original saddle on my road bike was too narrow and didn't have a big enough cutaway so after a hour it used to cut me in half in a very painful way. Changes to a specialized avatar of the correct width which also had a larger cutaway and now ride for hours pain free. Saddles can be frustrating compared to mountain biking as on road you sit on them a lot more in the same position.

alienmuppet

I think I'm starting to understand why I'm struggling a bit. I've re-measured my inseam. I used a set-square this time to help make a mark on the wall and shoved it as high as it would go... and if I take the average of a few tries it appears I'm a bit over 33".. Actually the first measurement was 33.5"! That means my legs are quite long for my height (a smidge over 5' 9.5").

It might be why a couple of bike shops have initially by eye sized me up as M, but when sat on M/L said that it perhaps might be better (though perhaps with a shorter stem).

It's funny, I sat on an M with the saddle set up far too low for me (my feet flat on the floor) but boy was it comfortable! I wonder if that saddle height is more what is should be for someone with an M....

I have put my measurements into http://www.competitivecyclist.com/ but I think I need to double check them (I'm doing the measurements myself without a helper, which can be awkward). So far I have this : -

Actual inseam: 33.25 in
Trunk: 24 in
Forearm: 14 in
Arm: 24 in
Thigh: 24.5 in
Lower leg: 22 in
Sternal notch: 58 in
Total height: 69.6 in

Which gives : -

The Eddy Fit (cm)

Seat Tube Range c–c: 55.9 - 56.4 cm
Seat Tube Range c–t: 57.6 - 58.1 cm
Top Tube Length:52.9 - 53.3 cm
Stem Length:9.8 - 10.4 cm
BB–Saddle Position: 71.5 - 73.5 cm
Saddle Handlebar: 52.5 - 53.1 cm
Saddle Setback: 6.9 - 7.3 cm

Hopefully today I will redo these and try and be as accurate as possible.

Interestingly the Saddle Handlebar length I currently have is around 50cm. As an experiment (this might seem counter intuitive) I have a couple of longer stems on order, 110mm and 120mm with a slightly steeper angle (8 degs instead of 6). Worth a try..

I'm that close to getting an M/L just to play with, and re-selling if it doesn't work out... I can't get over though that the sizing chart puts it in the 5' 11"+ category, whereas for my height I'm firmly in M land.

I at least have a 90mm stem already that I can stick on it if it's too stretched out.

Is there anyone in the know round here near Leicester?

I have my turbo trainer now too, so I'll take some pics with that hopefully later today.

fenix

Turbo pics will help but I'm still thinking your saddle is a bit too low. Look at how level your foot is in the pic - in reality it'll probably be angled when you're riding - making the saddle height a bit lower again.

alienmuppet

Agreed, I have raised it a bit since this pic.

dj58

The TT length on the medium is 54.5cm, standard stem length is 100mm, there is sufficient seatpost adjustment on the M for your leg length. You just need to persevere with it, possibly with a longer 110/120mm stem and adapt to road bike geometry. By all means go sit on an M/L if you can find one in a shop/for sale SH, but I think you may be too stretched out.

viewtopic.php?f=40020&t=12882623&hilit=Defy+sizing

kajjal

Having longer legs compared to the body does make fitting more difficult but the same basic principles apply.

If you find your bike too stretched out a shorter or even adjustable stem are useful as once you have the correct setting you can buy the right fixed stem. Also there are reduced reach / drop handle bars that are about an inch shorter reach than the more standard road bike bars. I have these on my new bike and find I now use the drops a lot more.

dj58

The standard connect handle bar on the OP's Defy are 42cm "Short and shallow 75 / 120mm reach and drop for easy access to the controls, with dual radius drops that flare outward for greater stability on the drops".

vrsmatt

looks too small to me, the reach is making you too upright for a road bike

alienmuppet

Okay, thanks again for your replies all. I've taken some new photos.

I've raised the saddle a bit (though arguably it's still too low?), saddle is set back a fair bit too.

I tried to assume a fairly neutral position, but it can vary so much depending on how much I bend my arms. I tried to get it so the handlebars roughly obscured the hubs too.

100mm Stem.





Down on the drops.. I can see the hub poking out in front of the bars a bit at times down here. Elbow seems a bit close to knee. In fact, my knee would probably hit my knee in use.



Camera positioned a few feet higher for a different angle : -





EDIT: Someone suggested this might help (different pedal position, plus 90 degree elbow bend position) : -



PS, thanks for your patience with this... :roll: :roll:

alienmuppet

Thanks all. I've concluded it is too small for me. A lot of it is the saddle to handlebar drop, it's pretty big once I really get the saddle where it ought to be, and too aggressive and cramped for me. I saw a guy today who's done a lot of competing in the past, and he instantly said: too small. It was just confirming what I knew deep down (though I know opinion varies even among very experienced people).

Also I tried an M/L and it did seem more like it.

I do have a Cannondale CAADX 54cm which is a lot more comfortable (handlebar stack is much higher, and it is a little longer) so I think I'm just going to use that for now, though I'm still hankering after a pure road bike for summer!

It might be a bit annoying, but it has been educational nonetheless :roll: . I'd rather go for a more suitable frame that trying to bash this one into shape.