Is it worth upgrading?

richard36

My winter road bike has Shimano RS11 wheels with Continental 4000 SII 23 mm tyres. The combination seems fine. The wheels feel reasonably nippy and comfortable.

I have a summer bike but quite often like riding the winter bike during the summer months especially for longer rides or where there's a chance of rubbishy roads. I was thinking of buying the Fulcrum Racing Quattro LG alloy clincher wheels and fitting 25 mm tyres. Is it worth getting these and using them instead of the RS11's or are they pretty much the same in terms of quality, the way they roll etc?

Another possible reason for going for the Fulcrums is that they are 35 mm which makes them 'aero'. I'm getting up to speeds of about 19 20 mph on rides so might get the benefit of the 35 mm.

If the Fulcrums are not that much of an upgrade then what would you recommend? Don't really want to spend more than £300.

Many thanks

itboffin

Zondas sound about right

trivial_poursuivant

itboffin wrote:

Zondas sound about right

+1

richard36

Are you referring to the Campagnolo Zonda C17 wheelset? If so what marks them out as being superior to the Fulcrums?

Thanks

dannbodge

I had a pair of Fulcrum Quattros and thought they are a very good set of wheels.

I've didn't notice any difference due to the larger rim profile though

trailflow

Richard36 wrote:

what marks them out as being superior to the Fulcrums?

I currenty ride Quattro LG's and i briefly owned Zonda's (previous version not the C17's).

The Zonda's have noticeably better hubs/bearings, but the LG's are not too far behind.
The Zonda's have cup and cone bearings and the LG's use cartridge bearings. So the Zonda's are easier to service.
The Zonda's bearings have almost no resistance if you spin them with your hand. The LG's have some resistance.
How much of a difference this all makes while the hubs are under load i dont know but in use the Zonda's hubs rolled effortlessly and seemed like a higher quality more premium hub.
The wheels felt stiff and direct but not at all harsh like some have reported.
The Zonda have thinner more bladed spokes than the LG's which are slightly fatter.
The Zonda's roll a touch faster to my perception, and take less effort to get up to speed, react more to input, feel more spritely.
Whether that was the down to the G3 spoke pattern,the lower weight, less spokes,the overall build, is hard to pinpoint.
A good feature of the Zonda's is they dont need rim tape. The rim bed is sealed.
My version of Zonda had a 15mm inner rim width which was their only downside. a wider rim would have made them closer to perfect and the new C17 have a wider rim.
For me the Zonda's felt like top performing wheel and punched well above their weight and seemed a good value for the £240 i got them for.
If you want to notice the biggest step up from RS11's then the C17 will provide it.

The Quattro LG's are good wheels for the price but they lack that special something that the Zonda's seem to have.
They dont spin up quite as quick as the Zonda's but they are not sluggish either. Once up to speed they dont feel heavy in any way. They zip along nicely.
The build quality is as good as the Zonda. Both wheels are built equally stiff. Maybe stiffer on the LG's.
They never have felt harsh at all but i run my tyres at 80/90 psi.
The 35mm deep rims dont feel all that aero out on the road.
They still use v-shaped rims. They perform closer to my shallow rim wheels if i compare them against my 50mm wheels.
They dont feel any faster being 35mm deep. If there is any gains, its a small gain.
They are perfectly OK for general all round riding if you can accept their 1800 gram weight which is the only real negative.
They dont doing anything bad, but they dont do anthing particularly stand out either. They are middle of the road wheels and their price reflects that and you cant really expect any miracles. There are much worse and much better wheels out there.
The wider rim is their best feature. And their graphics look alot better than most of the shallow wheels currently on the market (in my view).
The down side to the LG's is you may need long valve inner tubes (or extenders) if your current tubes are too short.
Longer valve tubes tend to cost more.

JesseD

Have the RS11's and the Quattros, the Quattros are a bit stiffer and that's about the only thing I can notice between the 2 despite the RS11's being much heavier than the Fulcrums.

Since I have had the RS11's I have only had to service the bearings once, easy job with some cone spanners and some grease, they still sun true and spin well after a winter of abuse on my winter bike.

Since I Bought the Quattro's (around the same time as the Shimano's) I have had 3 pairs all replaced under warranty, the first 2 pairs had a rim defect where under hard breaking the front wheel would pulse/judder, there was no noticeable damage to the rim when you looked at it but it was there none the less (didn't happen when I swapped in the Shimano wheel or my mates Mavic one), the third pair still had this issue but to a much lesser effect so I decided to live with it, then after a couple of months of easy use the bearings in the rear wheel went, so that wheel went back and was repaired under warranty, not great experience so far with them. Oh and the freehub body is made of a really soft alloy which the cassette bites into and makes changing it a pain of a job.

Years ago when the Racing 1's came out I had a pair, the rear was ok for around 6 months then kept going out true, I would get it trued by my LBS and within a week or 2 the same would happen again, then spokes started snapping and replacements were rarer than hens teeth and were also very expensive (£20 a spoke). The nipples also seized which made truing the wheel a nightmare.

I have now been put off Fulcrum wheels for life.

Campag wheels on the other hand are apparently much better despite Fulcrum being an offshoot of Campag, and as they now do Shimano freehubs it would be the way I would go if I were you.

dinyull

I'd have a look at Wiggle's Cosine 32mm wheels. Similar (if not same) profile to the Quattro's and come in at just under 1500g for £190 - a good £30-40 cheaper than the Fulcrums.

FWIW I was considering some Quattro's as an "upgrade" over some Khamsin's (entry level wheel similar to RS11). I have an old pair of Mavic Cosmic Elite which are similar to Quattro's in that they're both 32mm and I did notice they'd spin up and hold speed a little easier than the lower profile Khamsin's. I don't know if that was just me looking for it and trying to justify it though....

Think I'm going to hold off just for now.

richard36

Thanks for the detailed comments; very much appreciated

Dan Walton

To echo what others have said, I did a lot of reading up before buying some Quattro LG's for winter use. The front juddered under braking form the start and never improved, I toook them back and the guy in the shop also pointed out that the front bearing was FUBAR, this was after a couple hundred miles. Still waiting to see if my refund has gone back onto my card yet, won't be getting another pair.

bobmcstuff

Have ridden Zondas for a couple of years now and they have held up great, would recommend. Well in excess of 10,000km, including a lot of winter riding. Rims are starting to go though.

Surprised to see Fulcrums being described negatively compared to Campags since Fulcrums are just Campag own brand for OEM and for people who don't like mixing Shimano and Campag. Is what it is though I guess.

lesfirth

Either I am thick or some contributors on this thread have very vivid imaginations. I have three sets of wheels that I swop about on three bikes. Zondas, fulcrum racing 7 and mavic aksium.All from a similar price range. By just riding the bike I could not tell you which wheels I was on. Tyres and tyre pressures make far more difference.I have never ridden high end expensive wheels but in this price bracket," they spin up better... they roll easier ",what a load of rubbish.

richard36

Interesting lesfirth - thanks

To add to your comment one of the reasons I would consider getting some different wheels to the RS11's is to get ones with a wider internal rim so I could fit wider tyres i.e. 25mm. The recommended Zondas have an internal width of 17mm. I've read a number of articles which suggest that even a 17mm internal width isn't as good a combination with 25mm tyres as a 19mm internal width wheel with 25mm tyres. If that's true then should I be looking for wheels which have an internal width of 19mm and if so which wheels are available?

svetty

Am intrigued by your comment that for longer rides you eschew the summer bike for the winter one. What is the reason for this? Is it worth tailoring your upgrade resources towards remedying this rather than a 'side-ways' move for your winter bike?

richard36

Svetty, my summer bike is more of a racing bike so isn't as comfortable for say 5 hour rides as my winter bike which has a more relaxed style.

pblakeney

Richard36 wrote:

Svetty, my summer bike is more of a racing bike so isn't as comfortable for say 5 hour rides as my winter bike which has a more relaxed style.

I find that a strange strategy, unless racing. I do much longer rides in the summer so want my summer bike to be at least as comfortable as my winter bike.

JesseD

Would have thought it would be a good idea to have identical positions on both bikes, you are more likely to go faster on a bike that is comfortable and set up correctly than one that is too aggressive or has a front end that is too high?

I race and my summer/race bike and winter bikes were set up exactly the same, as i got fitter/leaner I have lowered the bar height on my race bike and its still very comfortable, more so than my winter bike, in fact so much so the winter bike will be sold to buy something with a lower head tube/stack height so I can get the same position as the summer bike again.

trailflow

Richard36 wrote:

Interesting lesfirth - thanks

To add to your comment one of the reasons I would consider getting some different wheels to the RS11's is to get ones with a wider internal rim so I could fit wider tyres i.e. 25mm. The recommended Zondas have an internal width of 17mm. I've read a number of articles which suggest that even a 17mm internal width isn't as good a combination with 25mm tyres as a 19mm internal width wheel with 25mm tyres. If that's true then should I be looking for wheels which have an internal width of 19mm and if so which wheels are available?

At the sub £300 end of the market there are no 19c alloy rim brake factory wheels from the big brands that i know of. Most are 17c max.
The only option i can think of are ARC22 and ARC31 wheels by Superstar components.
http://www.superstarcomponents.com/en/a ... -dealx.htm

For other 19mm rims then you'll be looking handbuilts or factory carbon wheels.

25mm tyres on 17c rims are absolutely fine in terms of handling.
25mm tyres on a 17c rim is still much better than a 15c.
I think the articles you've read are referring to the aerodynamics of the tyre and rim combination.
And they are speaking of the best possible optimal combination at the top level of performance and they are right.
a 19mm internal rim will likely have a 25mm outer width. so a 25mm tyre with a 25mm rim will be the best match aerodynamically and will give the smoothest transition of airflow around the tyre and rim.

But some tyre brand/models can size up differently than advertised on different rims at different PSI pressures.
So there is no exact formula to follow to get it right.
As this is your winter bike do aerodynamics really matter that much to you ?
The difference out in the real world between 17c and 19c is small and wont slow you down in anyway. So its not worth fretting over.
19c/25mm rims may be too wide for certain frames and you could have tyre clearance issues.

JesseD

bit over budget: https://www.huntbikewheels.com/collecti ... eep-22wide

Ive just ordered the Hunt Race Aero Wide ones, not been delivered yet and wont be till the end of June due to the pre-ordering thing they do, that said I have seen a pair on someone elses bike and he rated them, build quality looks good and price wasn't bad with discount from LBS

itboffin

trailflow wrote:

Richard36 wrote:

what marks them out as being superior to the Fulcrums?

I currenty ride Quattro LG's and i briefly owned Zonda's (previous version not the C17's).

The Zonda's have noticeably better hubs/bearings, but the LG's are not too far behind.
The Zonda's have cup and cone bearings and the LG's use cartridge bearings. So the Zonda's are easier to service.
The Zonda's bearings have almost no resistance if you spin them with your hand. The LG's have some resistance.
How much of a difference this all makes while the hubs are under load i dont know but in use the Zonda's hubs rolled effortlessly and seemed like a higher quality more premium hub.
The wheels felt stiff and direct but not at all harsh like some have reported.
The Zonda have thinner more bladed spokes than the LG's which are slightly fatter.
The Zonda's roll a touch faster to my perception, and take less effort to get up to speed, react more to input, feel more spritely.
Whether that was the down to the G3 spoke pattern,the lower weight, less spokes,the overall build, is hard to pinpoint.
A good feature of the Zonda's is they dont need rim tape. The rim bed is sealed.
My version of Zonda had a 15mm inner rim width which was their only downside. a wider rim would have made them closer to perfect and the new C17 have a wider rim.
For me the Zonda's felt like top performing wheel and punched well above their weight and seemed a good value for the £240 i got them for.
If you want to notice the biggest step up from RS11's then the C17 will provide it.

The Quattro LG's are good wheels for the price but they lack that special something that the Zonda's seem to have.
They dont spin up quite as quick as the Zonda's but they are not sluggish either. Once up to speed they dont feel heavy in any way. They zip along nicely.
The build quality is as good as the Zonda. Both wheels are built equally stiff. Maybe stiffer on the LG's.
They never have felt harsh at all but i run my tyres at 80/90 psi.
The 35mm deep rims dont feel all that aero out on the road.
They still use v-shaped rims. They perform closer to my shallow rim wheels if i compare them against my 50mm wheels.
They dont feel any faster being 35mm deep. If there is any gains, its a small gain.
They are perfectly OK for general all round riding if you can accept their 1800 gram weight which is the only real negative.
They dont doing anything bad, but they dont do anthing particularly stand out either. They are middle of the road wheels and their price reflects that and you cant really expect any miracles. There are much worse and much better wheels out there.
The wider rim is their best feature. And their graphics look alot better than most of the shallow wheels currently on the market (in my view).
The down side to the LG's is you may need long valve inner tubes (or extenders) if your current tubes are too short.
Longer valve tubes tend to cost more.

^^ nail on the head i'd say ^^

Ste_S

Richard36 wrote:

Interesting lesfirth - thanks

To add to your comment one of the reasons I would consider getting some different wheels to the RS11's is to get ones with a wider internal rim so I could fit wider tyres i.e. 25mm. The recommended Zondas have an internal width of 17mm. I've read a number of articles which suggest that even a 17mm internal width isn't as good a combination with 25mm tyres as a 19mm internal width wheel with 25mm tyres. If that's true then should I be looking for wheels which have an internal width of 19mm and if so which wheels are available?

*Shrugs* I've been running 25mm tyres on RS11s and old style Zondas with zero issues.

I like Zondas / Fulcrum 3s (more or less the same wheels) btw, probably the sweet spot with factory wheels

richard36

Ste_S, thanks for your post.

Do you notice any discernible difference between the RS11s and the Zondas?

And any discernible difference between 23mm tyres and 25mm tyres on the RS11s?

Thanks