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Converting to a 1x11 geartrain

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  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,308
    btw, I don't think there is such a thing as "removing the crank arm only on the drive side". The drive side arm is connected to the axle that goes through - the video I've linked to will make that make sense.
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #3s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    edited April 2017
    Ignore me.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • JGTRJGTR Posts: 1,404
    larkim wrote:
    btw, I don't think there is such a thing as "removing the crank arm only on the drive side". The drive side arm is connected to the axle that goes through - the video I've linked to will make that make sense.

    Yes there is, can do it in mine, just undo the bolt and drive side crank arm comes off
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    cooldad wrote:
    he says it's a PF BB, so not quite as simple.


    this is the bike:
    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/anthem-27dot5-2-2016

    Specs say Shimano Press Fit , but no details
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    odessouky wrote:
    cooldad wrote:
    he says it's a PF BB, so not quite as simple.


    this is the bike:
    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/anthem-27dot5-2-2016

    Specs say Shimano Press Fit , but no details

    Yes, easy to remove the crank, just need the little tool for removing the preload nut (although I've used a bit of flint on the side of the trail once) and an allen key. A rubber mallet helps if the axle is a bit tight.

    Ignore my previous post unless you are replacing the BB as well.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    cooldad wrote:
    odessouky wrote:
    cooldad wrote:
    he says it's a PF BB, so not quite as simple.


    this is the bike:
    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/anthem-27dot5-2-2016

    Specs say Shimano Press Fit , but no details

    Yes, easy to remove the crank, just need the little tool for removing the preload nut (although I've used a bit of flint on the side of the trail once) and an allen key. A rubber mallet helps if the axle is a bit tight.

    Ignore my previous post unless you are replacing the BB as well.

    Thanks

    From the little research I have done on the German Giant website, I think its a Shimano SM-BB71 PressFit BB92
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,308
    JGTR wrote:
    larkim wrote:
    btw, I don't think there is such a thing as "removing the crank arm only on the drive side". The drive side arm is connected to the axle that goes through - the video I've linked to will make that make sense.

    Yes there is, can do it in mine, just undo the bolt and drive side crank arm comes off
    Of course, I should have qualified that with "on that particular crank".

    Am I right in thinking all hollowtech cranks are single piece crank/spider/axle on drive side and crank only on non-drive, or is that just my lack of experience showing though?
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #3s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
  • JGTRJGTR Posts: 1,404
    You're correct but it's still just a case of undoing 2 allen key bolts and sliding the crank out.

    Technically you can't just remove the drive side crank arm on its own but you can remove the drive side crank arm and axle easy peasey.
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    I have just received the Superstar NW Raptor 30t in the post.
    I was under the impression it would come with SPACERS so I can fit the SLX crank to it?
    I received the chainring and that's it.
    I'm pretty sure a lot of posts suggested that the chain ring comes with spacers?
  • JGTRJGTR Posts: 1,404
    Spacers for the bolts? The only ones I know that come with spacers is the OneUp chain rings.
  • fat daddyfat daddy Posts: 2,605
    I have never had chain rings come with spacers

    The race face crank came with spacers ... but additional rings were just rings ... as were all other rings I bought .... when I converted my 2x10 to 1x10 I bought new single length bolts
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    JGTR wrote:
    Spacers for the bolts? The only ones I know that come with spacers is the OneUp chain rings.

    Well, I haven't yet started the conversion, but was under the impression that the existing bolts on my current 2x chainset will be very long for the new NW single chainring, and I will need shorter bolts or spacers under my existing bolts?

    Thought the new NW Superstar chainring will either come with short bolts or spacers to use under existing bolts?

    That's what I thought.
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    fat daddy wrote:
    I have never had chain rings come with spacers

    The race face crank came with spacers ... but additional rings were just rings ... as were all other rings I bought .... when I converted my 2x10 to 1x10 I bought new single length bolts

    Can you point me in the direction of single length bolts that would fit the SLX chainset?

    Thanks
  • ade555ade555 Posts: 216
    odessouky wrote:

    CRC saying there std double chain ring bolts and have 10mm length so could be to long for you, you can use spacers or get

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/bran ... nt=Default

    I did use some of ebay but they did rust a bit inside

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RRS-standard- ... M12yoEsk-w
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    ade555 wrote:
    odessouky wrote:

    CRC saying there std double chain ring bolts and have 10mm length so could be to long for you, you can use spacers or get

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/bran ... nt=Default

    I did use some of ebay but they did rust a bit inside

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RRS-standard- ... M12yoEsk-w
    R

    All of a sudden I'm thinking of ordering GOLD coloured bolts, which I think will contrast nicely with the gunmetal chainring...

    :mrgreen:

    This is becoming silly....
    :twisted:
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    Bolt length isn't always predictable, some NW rings have a thicker mounting flange than normal rings, the on-one ringmaster for example is stupidly thick.
  • prawnyprawny Posts: 5,415
    Most 30t ones have threaded tabs machined into the ring itself, are they on there or is is just flat?
    Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
    Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
    Vitus Sentier VRS - 2017
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    prawny wrote:
    Most 30t ones have threaded tabs machined into the ring itself, are they on there or is is just flat?


    i'll have a look when I get home...
    Thanks
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,308
    The 30T I have needed male and female bolts, but despite removing the outer ring the thicker new 30T ring compensated so the old bolts were fine and dandy.

    Does it really make any difference if the bolts are too long though? Surely they just protrude on the other side (my female "nuts" on the chainring bolts are hollow so any excess would just thread through - unattractive but wouldn't cause an issue that I could see?
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #3s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    If the female is too long it sticks right through and you can't tighten the male in to clamp the ring to the spider, so yes, it is kind of important!
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,308
    Ah of course - I'd not considered that possibility!
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #3s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    prawny wrote:
    Most 30t ones have threaded tabs machined into the ring itself, are they on there or is is just flat?


    Here's what it looks like:

    I've ordered some Gold M8 6mm bolts...hope I can complete this conversion over the weekend... :mrgreen:

    IMG_2616.jpg

    IMG_2617.jpg

    IMG_2614.jpg

    IMG_2613.jpg
  • fat daddyfat daddy Posts: 2,605
    mysteriously in the last 2 rides my 1x10 has dropped its chain both days :(

    hasn't done this at all before

    also on a couple of occasions suddenly the shifter has gone limp as though the cable has snagged

    work this weekend - shorten the chain, it feels a little loose, in theory its the correct length going from 35/50 to a single 44 .... BUT, in the 34 I would not have been able to fall off the top, due to (1) not cross chaining (2) the deurailure

    and check cable and routing
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,308
    One thing I know I didn't do when setting up young'uns 1x10 last week was look at the chain length.

    The formula on parktools for chain length using the triple would be:-
    (16.93inch x 2) + (42/4) + (36/4) + 1 = 54.36inch, therefore 54 inches

    With the smaller 30T front ring this now becomes
    (16.93inch x 2) + (30/4) + (36/4) + 1 = 51.36inch, therefore 51 inches

    3 inches feels like a good chunk to be taking off the chain length, and would no doubt add even more security in terms of chain drops (not that he's had any yet).

    I've also read that big-big+2 doesn't work quite so well for chainlength on a DIY 1x10 conversion, is big-big+4 (i.e. 30T+36T+4) a sensible option to look at instead? or is it better just to leave well alone whilst nothing is going wrong?
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #3s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    larkim wrote:
    One thing I know I didn't do when setting up young'uns 1x10 last week was look at the chain length.

    The formula on parktools for chain length using the triple would be:-
    (16.93inch x 2) + (42/4) + (36/4) + 1 = 54.36inch, therefore 54 inches

    With the smaller 30T front ring this now becomes
    (16.93inch x 2) + (30/4) + (36/4) + 1 = 51.36inch, therefore 51 inches

    3 inches feels like a good chunk to be taking off the chain length, and would no doubt add even more security in terms of chain drops (not that he's had any yet).

    I've also read that big-big+2 doesn't work quite so well for chainlength on a DIY 1x10 conversion, is big-big+4 (i.e. 30T+36T+4) a sensible option to look at instead? or is it better just to leave well alone whilst nothing is going wrong?


    wow...what the heck does all that mean!!!

    :mrgreen:

    does this include me as well?
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,308
    Well, I posted it on this thread in case it was relevant to you too! As I've said, so far without doing any chain shortening and without a special clutch rear mech my son isn't having any issues with chains jumping off, so it might be just something to bear in mind as an easy experiment if we ever experience any chain drops.

    The bottom line being that chain lengths are set on the basis of them possibly needing to reach the longest route around all of the components, with a little bit of extra. That is usually established as a "rule of thumb" as being "wrap the chain around the big ring at the front, the big ring at the back, miss out the derailleur and then add two whole links to that length.

    So logically if your old "big" ring of 42 teeth no longer exists and your biggest ring is now 30T or 32T that logically suggests that the chain length could / should be shorter to avoid it slapping around too much (and potentially jumping off the chainring at the front too, despite the NW setup).

    There's also a couple of formulas for calculating it which is what I've done above.

    The parktools website talks it through here - http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... gth-sizing - but doesn't specifically discuss the situation of a 3x10 being converted to a 1x10 so I thought I'd run through the formula to see if there was a big difference, and it seems there is, though I have a nagging doubt in my head whether the "formula" is right only for a double / triple setup rather than for all setups including NW 1x setups too.

    I'm going to have a quick look tonight to see if the chain looks too slack, but others more experienced than me might have a better perspective on this!
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #3s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    larkim wrote:
    Well, I posted it on this thread in case it was relevant to you too! As I've said, so far without doing any chain shortening and without a special clutch rear mech my son isn't having any issues with chains jumping off, so it might be just something to bear in mind as an easy experiment if we ever experience any chain drops.

    The bottom line being that chain lengths are set on the basis of them possibly needing to reach the longest route around all of the components, with a little bit of extra. That is usually established as a "rule of thumb" as being "wrap the chain around the big ring at the front, the big ring at the back, miss out the derailleur and then add two whole links to that length.

    So logically if your old "big" ring of 42 teeth no longer exists and your biggest ring is now 30T or 32T that logically suggests that the chain length could / should be shorter to avoid it slapping around too much (and potentially jumping off the chainring at the front too, despite the NW setup).

    There's also a couple of formulas for calculating it which is what I've done above.

    The parktools website talks it through here - http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... gth-sizing - but doesn't specifically discuss the situation of a 3x10 being converted to a 1x10 so I thought I'd run through the formula to see if there was a big difference, and it seems there is, though I have a nagging doubt in my head whether the "formula" is right only for a double / triple setup rather than for all setups including NW 1x setups too.

    I'm going to have a quick look tonight to see if the chain looks too slack, but others more experienced than me might have a better perspective on this!

    I'll be converting from a 10 speed 2x10 setup:
    24/38 crankset + 11-36 cassette

    to a 10 speed 1x10 setup:
    30 crankset + 11-26 cassette

    :shock: :mrgreen:

    Don't have a chain tool, the one that breaks a chain, so I'll leave it as is, and hope is goes well...
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,308
    Presume you mean 11-36!

    But its a fair point to note that going from 38 as your biggest down to 30 won't create as much slack as going from 42 to 30 as we've done. Using the formula, irrespective of the total chainstay length, 38 down to 30 would mean in theory potentially 2 surplus inches, whereas my 42 down to 30 means 3 surplus inches.

    TBH I think a lot of the info on this thread is a useful resource for people like you and me who haven't done this before, so hopefully at least talking about chain length will mean it's something future google-ers can read and consider!!
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #3s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
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