Pro Lite Revo - Warranty

dinyull

In a complete kick in the balls, I've had 2 wheelsets fail on me this week.

On monday night I noticed at least 8 nipples on the rear wheel that have basically disolved:

https://plus.google.com/photos/10216938 ... t6IibqNgAE

I emailed pics off to wiggle and have just received this response:

Your query is now being dealt with by our warranty department, we’re sorry to hear that there is an issue. Firstly i can only apologise for the delay in this being rectified for you. I can confirm that your wheel set is still within the warranty period, however due to the nature of the issue it can be difficult to claim under the warranty issued by the manufacturer. Spokes, nipples, bearings, and the free hub are serviceable/maintainable parts and normally have a limited time warranty. In this case it may be best if you take this to your Local Bike Shop, and we will reimburse you as a good will gesture , Simply send us a copy of your receipt. We hope that this is a pleasing resolution, but please feel free to contact us if you have any issues or would simply like to ask for advice. Enjoy the rest of your day!

To say I'm underwhelmed is an understatement. The wheels are 10 months old and have covered just under 3,000 miles, albeit in all weather.

What are my rights re. getting replacement/refund?

bendertherobot

There are two schools of thought here. On the one hand you're likely to come across those who say suck it up snowflake because this sort of wheel is, in effect, disposable. On the other hand there are your legal rights.

Let's start with saying that a 'limited time warranty' is simply a convenience for all concerned. It means Wiggle deal nicely with you, they get to get some money back from Pro Lite etc. A warranty is only as good as being permitted to use it or enforcing it. It's arguably better for retailers than end users.

The Sale of Goods legislation is more important and that's all now neatly encapsulated in the Consumer Rights Act 2015. That Act provides similar levels of protection to the old one. Effectively, goods must be as described, fit for purpose and satisfactory quality.

It's true that there are consumable parts of wheels. Spokes can break, bearings can wear out, nipples can fail. But, taken as a whole, they should last for a while if used in a reasonable manner. It irks me when suppliers claim that the parts of a wheel which are crucial to its use as a wheel are somehow consumable or will fail if you don't maintain them.

One of the issues you do have though is the remedies under the Act. Their response isn't unreasonable, so IF a bike shop can replace ALL the nipples then it's a fair remedy. It's fairly likely that your LBS isn't going to have the right nipples though there may be suitable replacements. And that all adds up.

So, I'd get a quote from your LBS and go for there but there's no issue, if they can't do it, with trying to ask for a replacement set OR a refund, but only at the 'discounted' rate.

PM me if, in due course, you need any legal words.

bendertherobot

Freehubs are interesting. A mate of mine has a similar issue with a freehub being bitten into. The supplier's view is that freehubs are maintainable items and, in effect, consumables AND that you should ONLY use cassettes with alloy carriers on alloy hubs. I'm not actually sure which cassettes are, even at the top level, full alloy carrier?

dinyull

I'm pretty pi$$sed off, frankly.

I can't see in anyone's eyes, nipples only lasting 10 months/3,000 miles as being fit for purpose. I've got a pair of Mavic Cosmic Elite in the garage with 10-12,000 all weather miles on them and nipples/spokes still perfect.

bendertherobot

It's a stock response. That's the problem with all these things. You get as far as you're willing to push and, ultimately, legally test it.

daniel_b

I feel your pain, that does seem pretty poor.

I could be wrong, but didn't someone on here have a bit of a rough time with getting Wiggle to replace the same wheels, but they then contacted Pro Lite direct, who in turn contacted Wiggle, and I think he ended up with a reasonable solution.

dinyull

Am I right in thinking that if a wheel builder/lbs was to replace the nipples then it would void the manufacturers/sellers warranty.

And most wheel builders/lbs wouldn't offer a guarantee on their work because of the parts used?

keef66

Dinyull wrote:

I'm pretty pi$$sed off, frankly.

I can't see in anyone's eyes, nipples only lasting 10 months/3,000 miles as being fit for purpose. I've got a pair of Mavic Cosmic Elite in the garage with 10-12,000 all weather miles on them and nipples/spokes still perfect.

I have a pair of RS10s that are coming up to 10 years old, 7 of those being ridden all year round. All the alloy nipples still look OK to me, and when I've occasionally had to true them and once replace a spoke, the threads weren't corroded at all.

So I'd agree that nipples disintegrating in less than a year puts the wheel well into chocolate teapot territory. Get the bike shop to quote to rebuild the thing with all new brass nipples. At least that way you'll end up with a more serviceable wheel. Or Wiggle will balk at the cost and refund you or send another wheel.

trailflow

Never seen nipples fail like that. Do you store your bike outside ? Do you live near the coast ?

If they offered you a replacement of the same wheels would you trust them not to go the same way ? i wouldn't.

An offer to have them rebuilt with brass nipples and they foot the bill doesn't seem too bad of an offer to me.

apreading

I get why you are upset - but if you think about it, they have made a reasonable offer to rectify the fault. Get your LBS to replace the nipples and they will cover the cost. So they are happy to pay to fix the wheels. Thats not so bad is it? In fact, the LBS can use brass nipples which will arguably be better anyway.

Alu nipples are poor and should never be used in my opinion, with this case being a good reason why. Seen too many cracked, snapped, corroded etc...

dinyull

if I get lbs/wheel builder to replace nipples - will they or can they offer a guarantee. Will the manufacturers warranty then be voided?

2 year guarantee I believe, so to void it after 10 months wouldn't be the best.

ugo.santalucia

Insist, their response is nonsense. If the nipples failed, they need to fix the wheel, period.

ugo.santalucia

Dinyull wrote:

if I get lbs/wheel builder to replace nipples - will they or can they offer a guarantee. Will the manufacturers warranty then be voided?

2 year guarantee I believe, so to void it after 10 months wouldn't be the best.

Yes, it will... I wouldn't bother, as next ill be the rim to crack... get a replacement under warranty

apreading

I would ask that question of Wiggle - will the MFR warranty on the rest of the wheel still be valid. If not then its not an adequate remedy as you are left worse off.

However, if spokes, nipples, bearings and freehub are not warrantied anyway then it is worth looking at what is. Short of the rim itself failing without being dinged or the main hub casting fracturing then there isnt much covered by the warranty.

If those parts are 'user serviceable' then by definition a user servicing them should not void the rest of the warranty. Having to replace a spoke would be a normal event in the lifetime of a wheel.

I think Wiggle have been turned down by Pro-lite here and are trying to find what they feel is a reasonable compromise. I have no reason to think they wouldnt do the same if there were a warranty dispute later on in the warranty period.

dinyull

Cheers for all the input.

apreading - I take your point, but what happens when Pro Lite/Wiggle won't talk to me because the rim is cracked and they blame the wheel builder, wheel builder blames the rim. I'll not have a leg to stand on.

Think I'm going to push for a refund.

keef66

Dinyull wrote:

if I get lbs/wheel builder to replace nipples - will they or can they offer a guarantee. Will the manufacturers warranty then be voided?

2 year guarantee I believe, so to void it after 10 months wouldn't be the best.

Not sure why you're worried about a warranty that the retailer / manufacturer don't appear to want to honour. Nipples disintegrating isn't fair wear and tear. A rebuild with brass nipples would give you a more robust wheel. The alternative is to refuse their offer, quote the Consumer Rights Act, and say you want a refund. I'm assuming you wouldn't want a new replacement wheel of the same flawed construction?

dinyull

keef66 wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

if I get lbs/wheel builder to replace nipples - will they or can they offer a guarantee. Will the manufacturers warranty then be voided?

2 year guarantee I believe, so to void it after 10 months wouldn't be the best.

Not sure why you're worried about a warranty that the retailer / manufacturer don't appear to want to honour. Nipples disintegrating isn't fair wear and tear. A rebuild with brass nipples would give you a more robust wheel. The alternative is to refuse their offer, quote the Consumer Rights Act, and say you want a refund. I'm assuming you wouldn't want a new replacement wheel of the same flawed construction?

Just trying to foresee anything they come back at me with.

dinyull

trailflow wrote:

Never seen nipples fail like that. Do you store your bike outside ? Do you live near the coast ?

If they offered you a replacement of the same wheels would you trust them not to go the same way ? i wouldn't.

An offer to have them rebuilt with brass nipples and they foot the bill doesn't seem too bad of an offer to me.

In a garage just under 10 miles from the coast.

DWM1980

Daniel B wrote:

I feel your pain, that does seem pretty poor.

I could be wrong, but didn't someone on here have a bit of a rough time with getting Wiggle to replace the same wheels, but they then contacted Pro Lite direct, who in turn contacted Wiggle, and I think he ended up with a reasonable solution.

That was me! My situation was slightly different - the rear rim had some cracks around spoke holes, so the wheels were sent back to Wiggle for inspection. After 3 weeks, they told me they were going to be repaired but couldn't tell me how long this would take. At this point I contacted Pro Lite directly via their website. Within hours I received an email from their International Sales Manager who agreed to look into it for me. A day later he phoned me from Singapore to tell me that Wiggle would send a replacement to speed things up. I was obviously happy with this, and very impressed with the service from Pro Lite. PM me if you want a contact email address.

Cheers

Dave

dinyull

I've had a response from wiggle this morning offering to replace the wheels.

Which is good of them, but have asked if I can replace with a different set of wheels as I don't want to be in the same boat 10 months down the line.

Cheers for all the input so far.

daniel_b

Eggcellent cracking news - intended pun on multiple levels.

dinyull

They have since offered me a Voucher Refund.

Although initially disappointed in their response they've been spot on since, to the point they're sending me a box and bubble wrap to return the wheels. Really impressed.

ugo.santalucia

Dinyull wrote:

They have since offered me a Voucher Refund.

Although initially disappointed in their response they've been spot on since, to the point they're sending me a box and bubble wrap to return the wheels. Really impressed.

They probably have someone who keeps an eye on forums...

apreading

Did you pay full price for these, or get them for the price match of £160?

If the latter then I would rather get the replacement with the same or the rebuild from your shop with brass nipples. The Novatec hubs in them are pretty good and you would have to pay alot more to get a similar wheelset elsewhere.

If you got your local shop to rebuild then even if the rims later developed a fault, you could get a new rim built onto those hubs and have a nice wheelset.

If you got them replaced with the same then there is no reason to think Wiggle wouldnt be just as good if the new set go wrong within the new two year warranty period.

I would only want my money back if I had paid full price.

dinyull

I got a price match.

With a replacement I'd be worried the same happening again. As a commuter bike first and foremost, I'm after bombproof and having read the £400 Disc Wheelset thread there have been a few problems with these.

Tbh, I'm considering ditching disc's altogether as I'm not getting on with them. I've had a pair of Acor's seize on me, my Spyre's need constant fettling and I cannot afford hydraulics. Think I'll take this opportunity to buy some rim wheels and setup the spare frame sat in the garage as the commuter.

bendertherobot

The Pro Lite are an expensive wheel now, but a good one.

Personally, I'd take a replacement wheel, stick it on ebay as new, and make £150 on what you paid.

That gives you £300 to spend and I'd look at some Hunts.

apreading

bendertherobot wrote:

The Pro Lite are an expensive wheel now, but a good one.

Personally, I'd take a replacement wheel, stick it on ebay as new, and make £150 on what you paid.

That gives you £300 to spend and I'd look at some Hunts.

Cant fault that logic - this would be a good call.

ugo.santalucia

Dinyull wrote:

I got a price match.

With a replacement I'd be worried the same happening again. As a commuter bike first and foremost, I'm after bombproof and having read the £400 Disc Wheelset thread there have been a few problems with these.

Tbh, I'm considering ditching disc's altogether as I'm not getting on with them. I've had a pair of Acor's seize on me, my Spyre's need constant fettling and I cannot afford hydraulics. Think I'll take this opportunity to buy some rim wheels and setup the spare frame sat in the garage as the commuter.

I am in a similar position... while discs last forever (my rims must have done in excess of 20k miles and they are virtually new), the brakes themselves have given me grief before settling into a good level of reliability. IF these Exalith coated rims come available on the market, tht might well be a good opportunity for me to go back to rim brakes. Wet braking performance has never been a huge issue and my commter will continue to have discs anyway.

I have lifted a few mid range rim brake bikes and they are all at least 3 pounds lighter than mine... day and night really and just like you I cannt afford the luxury of hydraulics

chippyk

bendertherobot wrote:

That gives you £300 to spend and I'd look at some Hunts.

That's not rhyming slang is it?

gabriel959

So Wiggle have replied and they have told me the following:

Thank you for your continued patience. I have sent the Photographs over to our supplier who is an expert in his field. This is his verdict: "There’s nothing in the picture or 1.5 year time frame that suggests that this could be a manufacturing defect. If it was a manufacturing defect, the nipple would have failed within the first couple of weeks". This is just part of a very detailed email on what is classed as warranty. Unfortunately we are unable to cover these under Warranty. Sorry we could not have been more of help on this occasion!

I am seriously unimpressed. The wheelset has only been used on-road (not even gravel paths!), for 2700 miles since July 2016 (I bought them in April but didn't use them until July when I got my new bike) and this is normal. On another note on their website Wiggle Chris (in their QA rates these wheels) as good enough for up to 200kg and them being the strongest wheels they have.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/pro-lite-revo-a ... -wheelset/
These are one of the strongest wheels we have and will be able to deal with weights up to 200kg.


Bender? I have a copy of the Consumer Rights Act in front of me, what do you suggest?

timothyw

What's the problem with your wheels Gabriel? Same thing with the nipples?

If they were my wheels I'd rebuild with brass nipples, job done.