If the Pros don't use discs, surely I don't need them?

meanredspider

thegreatdivide wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Ultimately it's horses for courses, personal preference and a big chunk of prejudice.

Which you've clearly proved in your post.

We get it - you bought a bike with disc brakes. Move on.

And a bike without discs. Your point?

fenix

Ok if you have six nice summer bikes - that doesn't make sense - so your next bike may as well have discs or be made of bamboo. My logic is out of the window. Get whatever you want.

(how many miles do you get to do on these bikes ?)

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Disc bikes are a bit dead uphill... ...., then rim braked bikes are more responsive and generally better suited.

Shouldn't this read "disc bikes I have ridden ...." "rim brakes bikes I have ridden...."?

My experience is that there's absolutely no difference - and there's far more difference between the frame material or the wheel construction...But that's just my experience.

FitzM

Fenix wrote:

Ok if you have six nice summer bikes - that doesn't make sense - so your next bike may as well have discs or be made of bamboo. My logic is out of the window. Get whatever you want.

(how many miles do you get to do on these bikes ?)

Agreed it's not necessarily sensible, and I too can make the argument that I don'r really need another bike. However, as I don't drink (much), don't smoke and no longer have a wife (to advise on how my money is spent) I buy myself a new bike every other year. Last purchase was 2015, so....... hole, pocket, burn

Maybe I stick with my Summer bikes and instead buy a Winter bike with discs, but to be honest last Winter I've found a new set of Swisstop Flash EVO BXP has been more than sufficient

NeXXus

Has anyone mentioned buzzwords like "red hot" and "cut" yet?

#didntreadthethread

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Disc bikes are a bit dead uphill... ...., then rim braked bikes are more responsive and generally better suited.

Shouldn't this read "disc bikes I have ridden ...." "rim brakes bikes I have ridden...."?

My experience is that there's absolutely no difference - and there's far more difference between the frame material or the wheel construction...But that's just my experience.

You can possibly get a disc brake bike which is just as responsive and accelerates fast out of an hairpin, but realistically you need to add more than 1 grand to get the same specs and weight in the same ballpark.

I can get a sub-8 kg rim brake bike with Ultegra for less than 2 grand... to get the same with discs you are looking at twice the budget at the very least... moreover, most disc framesets are designed for endurance with more relaxed geometry.

It depends what you are after... for a UK "summer bike" to take to the alps or Majorca, I would not bother with discs at all, whereas for an al year round mile muncher I would (and I did)

slowbike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

moreover, most disc framesets are designed for endurance with more relaxed geometry.

http://road.cc/content/review/210904-sp ... xpert-disc - does weigh in at 7.8Kg and cost best part of 4k though.

S-works Tarmac Disc is a bit lighter but a bit more pricey still with road geometry ...

I'm sure other brands have similar offerings ...


the OP has said he doesn't have a wife ... and both those bikes together would still be cheaper than one ...

rick_chasey

NeXXus wrote:

Has anyone mentioned buzzwords like "red hot" and "cut" yet?

#didntreadthethread

It's a question of weight and priorities, as ever.

Some people don't mind the extra weight (and the extra weight varies depending on cost), and some people aren't that fussed about the braking difference.

For me - I weigh 56-57 kilos, i rarely spend more than 5 mins descending at speed where I live and ride, and when I do I'm breaking hard maybe once or twice? So a) I stop faster than most, regardless of braking system, and b) I don't really spend much time stopping hard.

I would a) get picky over weight, given the above and b) think the improvement is marginal at best given the cost, especially given the weight.

That's all fairly specific, and you could very easily flip that around - not that MRS is a heffer, but he rides a lot in the rain, weighs more than me, spends more time descending and enjoys the modulation over a few grams.


And he built his bike from scratch, so had the luxury of choosing, which I, at the time of purchase, didn't really, given I wanted a light road bike in 2011.

ugo.santalucia

Slowbike wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

moreover, most disc framesets are designed for endurance with more relaxed geometry.

http://road.cc/content/review/210904-sp ... xpert-disc - does weigh in at 7.8Kg and cost best part of 4k though.

S-works Tarmac Disc is a bit lighter but a bit more pricey still with road geometry ...

I'm sure other brands have similar offerings ...


the OP has said he doesn't have a wife ... and both those bikes together would still be cheaper than one ...

In the 4-5 grand bracket you find lush machines, but in the more down to earth price bracket the choice is poor. It has to be said that in the 4-5 grand bracket you also get 6 kg rim brake bikes, so if weight is an issue, it is a lost battle.

They are endurance machines, suitable for those who ride 20 k per year in all weather... for fair weather sunday warriors you pay more to get less

ben-----

PBlakeney wrote:

Elephant in the room - Pros don't choose what they ride, they ride what they are given. Mostly.
I would buy a disc bike if I was doing stop/start cycling in cruddy weather to remove rim wear.
Otherwise, I'll wait for an industry standard.

Two elephants in the room: Aren't disc breaks not OK for pros, by the rules, generally?

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

... for fair weather sunday warriors you pay more to get less

Yup - definitely wouldn't recommend discs for those guys. For discs to be worthwhile right now, you've got to need good all-weather brakes or need to run big tyres.

Weight is still overrated. For even a puny 60kg rider, the difference between a 6kg bike and a 7kg bike is less than 2%. But I don't think someone that lightweight needs discs anyway.

haydenm

ben----- wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Elephant in the room - Pros don't choose what they ride, they ride what they are given. Mostly.
I would buy a disc bike if I was doing stop/start cycling in cruddy weather to remove rim wear.
Otherwise, I'll wait for an industry standard.

Two elephants in the room: Aren't disc breaks not OK for pros, by the rules, generally?

What?

rick_chasey

meanredspider wrote:

Weight is still overrated. For even a puny 60kg rider, the difference between a 6kg bike and a 7kg bike is less than 2%. But I don't think someone that lightweight needs discs anyway.

I would tend to agree.

(albeit weight of the rider is underrated in the discussion).

slowbike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

moreover, most disc framesets are designed for endurance with more relaxed geometry.

http://road.cc/content/review/210904-sp ... xpert-disc - does weigh in at 7.8Kg and cost best part of 4k though.

S-works Tarmac Disc is a bit lighter but a bit more pricey still with road geometry ...

I'm sure other brands have similar offerings ...


the OP has said he doesn't have a wife ... and both those bikes together would still be cheaper than one ...

In the 4-5 grand bracket you find lush machines, but in the more down to earth price bracket the choice is poor. It has to be said that in the 4-5 grand bracket you also get 6 kg rim brake bikes, so if weight is an issue, it is a lost battle.

They are endurance machines, suitable for those who ride 20 k per year in all weather... for fair weather sunday warriors you pay more to get less

There you go then - you _can_ get some good disc road bikes - but as they're fashionable atm you'll be paying for the privilge...

I'd love a good road cx/gravel bike (really don't need one on the road) - but I'm not paying out again when I've got a CX that does roughly what I need ... but then I'm a skinflint - with a wife (who wants a new bike) and a child - who has a nice new bike too ... and whilst I do have a bike with disc brakes - it's a 29er ... the hydro discs are excellent though

meanredspider

Rick Chasey wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Weight is still overrated. For even a puny 60kg rider, the difference between a 6kg bike and a 7kg bike is less than 2%. But I don't think someone that lightweight needs discs anyway.

I would tend to agree.

(albeit weight of the rider is underrated in the discussion).

I think the weight of the rider is really important. I'm not sure I know where the crossover point between rims and discs is but somewhere north of 60kg and somewhere south of 80kg. My 55kg son rides rim brakes on a bike I built for him (prejudice?).

rick_chasey

meanredspider wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Weight is still overrated. For even a puny 60kg rider, the difference between a 6kg bike and a 7kg bike is less than 2%. But I don't think someone that lightweight needs discs anyway.

I would tend to agree.

(albeit weight of the rider is underrated in the discussion).

I think the weight of the rider is really important. I'm not sure I know where the crossover point between rims and discs is but somewhere north of 60kg and somewhere south of 80kg. My 55kg son rides rim brakes on a bike I built for him (prejudice?).

Possibly. I'm basically the same weight as your son, and as I've mentioned before, in a wet descent, emergency stop with someone around 77 kilos on discs, with me on rim brakes, i stopped a noticeable distance sooner.

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

Weight is still overrated. For even a puny 60kg rider, the difference between a 6kg bike and a 7kg bike is less than 2%. But I don't think someone that lightweight needs discs anyway.

It's easy maths but they don't work... if I put up 3 kg it's not the same as a 3 kg heavier bike... it might be when it comes to VAM, but the way the bike responds on a climb is very different... my 11 kg Croix de Fer was a pig, no matter how thin I became, it was still shite up a climb.

It's all about perceptions, feelings and emotions, otherwise this all secton of the forum would have no reason to exist... why not stick to what you've got? It's bound to be the same...

feels different though

cycleclinic

UCI have sanctioned various disc brake bikes for use now. So they are coming to pro ranks slowly.

If BC would just hurry up and allow them in races I would build no.18. In fact no.18 might be a 1899 bike but that is another matter.

There are a few race orientated frames for disc brakes ugo.

With the right bike I cannot see why a disc brake bike cannot be ridden very quickly. Most disc brake bikes are slowler simply because they are heavier and the rider has a less aero position but they are not build to be race bikes. A few race frames exist though and some of the endurance frames like the Cinelli superstar disc. I know I could get a aero position on that frame.

Ugo are you in italy now?

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

Ugo are you in italy now?

Yes, unfortunately only on holiday...

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

UCI have sanctioned various disc brake bikes for use now. So they are coming to pro ranks slowly.

Very slowly... despite Specialized only offering Roubaix with discs, nobody last sunday was uding a Roubaix disc... maybe using last year's frame or maybe using a frame not designed for Roubaix?

Don't think we'll see many this season

kajjal

Rick Chasey wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Weight is still overrated. For even a puny 60kg rider, the difference between a 6kg bike and a 7kg bike is less than 2%. But I don't think someone that lightweight needs discs anyway.

I would tend to agree.

(albeit weight of the rider is underrated in the discussion).

I think the weight of the rider is really important. I'm not sure I know where the crossover point between rims and discs is but somewhere north of 60kg and somewhere south of 80kg. My 55kg son rides rim brakes on a bike I built for him (prejudice?).

Possibly. I'm basically the same weight as your son, and as I've mentioned before, in a wet descent, emergency stop with someone around 77 kilos on discs, with me on rim brakes, i stopped a noticeable distance sooner.

I weight 100kg and rim brakes are not a good idea compared to decent hydraulic disc brakes on my road bike for me. In the wet on steep descents at speed rim brakes are quite dangerous for me. Even in the dry rim brakes feel very wooden and lacking in power. At my weight the disc brakes provide much better power and control, especially 40mph+.

That being said my mid 1990's mountain bike with v brakes regularly goes up through a forest into the mountains in the drier weather with no issues. I would not risk it in the wet.

Moonbiker

Why the massive price difference between road hydro discs & mtb hydro discs?

NeXXus

The combined shift and brake lever

bigbadbehr

dodgy wrote:

I think I've posted something along these lines in over 1.5 trillion * disc threads.

For me, the benefit of discs isn't better braking, better modulation, looks (bad or otherwise). I chose them because I measure the rims on my bike and they get thinner after every outing. Because I buy my own kit, I want it to last longer and be safer for (much) longer.

Nothing to do with what the pros use, I couldn't care less what they use or wear.
* may be an exaggeration

I love this as a reason, and I don't have a single bike with disc brakes.

fat daddy

to be honest you need both ... on separate bikes ... although I do have a SS with disc on the front and rim on the back .. I digress

when ever I get on the disc bike I think "ooooh I love these brakes", the power of stopping with 1 finger on the hoods, the reliability of knowing they are going to bite the second you touch them whether you have been in mud, road grease or rain

but then whenever I get on the rim bikes I think "ahhh, these feel nicer" something about squeezing the outside of the wheel rather than the inside just feels nicer, the wheels are lighter and bike feels nimbler and seems to accelerate quicker

I don't have a preference, there is no right and wrong .... I like discs for crap weather and going off road .. I like rims for dry days ... kind of obvious really

Man Of Lard

There are lots of things the pros use that I don't - team cars, domestiques, soigneurs, masseurs,...

Conversely there are things I use that the pros don't - Puncture resistant tyres, Cherry Vimto in my bidons, shortbread in place of energy gels, Stornoway black pudding butties as recovery food,...

My pedals still go round when I apply force through the action of my leg muscles (just not as fast as if I was 20 years younger and a full-time athlete) - I enjoy the ride.

Do I get ridiculed by my riding mates? Sure - do I dish it out back to them for their similarly esoteric choices? Sure. It's all done in a light-hearted manner on both sides (naturally when someone changes sides of the fence, the ribbing escalates to absurd levels)

If you want to ride a bike with rim brakes - great. You're happy, nobody elses opinion is important.
If you want to ride a bike with disc brakes - ditto the above.
If you want to ride a bike with some sort of novel brakes we haven't even thought of - ditto.

Précis: ride what you want, enjoy it and who gives a flying bidon what so-called experts think?

imafatman

Disc brakes are superior in every way. You don't need them, just like you don't need deep dish aero wheels, or a power meter, or tubeless, or Di2.

If you want the best braking performance in all weather conditions with consistent performance then go discs. Otherwise it's just a subjective opinion based upon your individual requirements.

benjamess

imafatman wrote:

Disc brakes are superior in every way. You don't need them, just like you don't need deep dish aero wheels, or a power meter, or tubeless, or Di2.

If you want the best braking performance in all weather conditions with consistent performance then go discs. Otherwise it's just a subjective opinion based upon your individual requirements.

go away your rational speech has no place here :roll: