New full carbon bike - creaking from front headset area
My month or so old Cube Attain Gtc Pro Disc has developed an awful creaking noise when I ride. Thankfully, I can recreate it by standing next to the bike and pushing down on the handlebars. It makes a loud creak/crack when I do this.
The bike is due in for its first free service on saturday. However, does anyone know how to fix this annoying sound? Ive done probably 150 miles on the thing, so it isnt an age or wear related issue. Despite it going for a service, I'd like to learn how to fix it myself.
Also, the front derailleur seems to be too far over. When I'm on the big ring at the front, the chain rubs on the inside edge until I'm using around the sixth gear on the rear cog.
Again, this is something for the service, but any ideas how to fix it?
Thanks in advance.
The bike is due in for its first free service on saturday. However, does anyone know how to fix this annoying sound? Ive done probably 150 miles on the thing, so it isnt an age or wear related issue. Despite it going for a service, I'd like to learn how to fix it myself.
Also, the front derailleur seems to be too far over. When I'm on the big ring at the front, the chain rubs on the inside edge until I'm using around the sixth gear on the rear cog.
Again, this is something for the service, but any ideas how to fix it?
Thanks in advance.
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Comments
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The creaking is most likely one of the following. Stem, where it clamps the bars, spacers below the stem or steerer. All easily fixed with some carbon grease between the faces of the offending parts. Your mech problem is the limit screws. Not going to suggest you tackle these problems as although fairly simple fixes, if you're not competent with basic bike mechanics you could end up making your bike dangerous to ride.
YouTube the limit screws if you want to attempt it yourself.argon 18 e116 2013 Vision Metron 80
Bianchi Oltre XR Sram Red E-tap, Fulcrum racing speed xlr
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Thanks. I'll take a look. I've done a bit of bike mechanic stuff, but am only a novice at the moment.
In relation to carbon grease, is there such a thing? I've seen carbon gripper compound, but nothing that would imply it's a grease for carbon parts. Could you point me in the direction of something to use? Thanks.0 -
The grip compound and grease are the same thing. Wiggle do a finishline gel for about 8 quid. Just smear a bit between surfaces and it should stop any creaking. Used it numerous times and in fact had a creak the other day on my s-works and applied a small amount to all the surfaces mentioned and that cured it.
Might be worth getting yourself a torque wrench for your carbon parts. Never bothered in the past but got given one recently. You should find the grease/gel will enable you to torque up to a lower setting than the maximum stated on the parts.argon 18 e116 2013 Vision Metron 80
Bianchi Oltre XR Sram Red E-tap, Fulcrum racing speed xlr
De Rosa SK pininfarina disc
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Thanks. I have a torque wrench already. Useful tool.
Are you sure that grease and grip compound are the same thing? I've looked at Wiggle and it says the following about the Finish Line gel:
'Fiber Grip is specially designed to create friction and reduce slippage between clamped carbon fibre surfaces on bicycle frames and components'
This would be ok to use in a headset? Wouldn't just a normal grease be better?0 -
Yes. Normal grease in the headset. Fibre grip between stem clamp and bars plus a bit on the steerer tube where the stem slides over it. Also try a very fine smear of grease between the headset spacers where they sit on top of each other. I've found these to cause creaking in the past.
Normal grease on carbon fibre can attack the material. Plus it won't do anything to help the surface to grip.argon 18 e116 2013 Vision Metron 80
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Before you strip it down and apply grip compound I would suggest simply loosening the two bolts clamping the stem to steerer and re-tighten while pushing down on the bars to take out any minuscule play on the stem/spacer interface. It's worked for me.0
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Mercia Man wrote:Before you strip it down and apply grip compound I would suggest simply loosening the two bolts clamping the stem to steerer and re-tighten while pushing down on the bars to take out any minuscule play on the stem/spacer interface. It's worked for me.
I was going to suggest exactly this. After i collected my bike and prior to first ride i checked the PDI
There was a tiny bit of play in the headset, slackened off the top bolt, released the stem slightly and I was able to move it down the steerer, ever so slightly only a millimetre of less. Tightened it all up and it has been good as gold sinceGET WHEEZY - WALNUT LUNG RACING TEAM™0 -
Thanks all. I'll take a look. If not, I'll ask the LBS to do it on Saturday. Will be great if I can get the creaking sorted because apart from that and the derailleur, it's a wonderful bike and I'm really enjoying riding it.
I'll try the simple stuff (stem bolts) before getting more involved and doing the compound thing.
Do you check for play by holding the front brake and wiggling the bike forwards and backwards?0 -
benws1 wrote:Do you check for play by holding the front brake and wiggling the bike forwards and backwards?
Yes. Make sure you push down the stem and tighten fully THEN do up the top bolt, if you do it the other way round you could end up with same problemGET WHEEZY - WALNUT LUNG RACING TEAM™0 -
Rocking the bike back and forth with the brake on will tell you if there's play in the headset. This is fixed by slackening the two stem bolts and rocking the bike whilst taking out any knocking by tightening the top cap bolt a little at a time.
This should in theory also push the stem down the steerer and eliminate any tiny gap. Only tighten the top cap bolt a tiny amount at a time. If you over do it you notice the steering is tight and notchy. Don't forget to tighten the two stem clamping bolts when you're finished. The play should be taken out with the cap bolt not by pushing down on the stem.argon 18 e116 2013 Vision Metron 80
Bianchi Oltre XR Sram Red E-tap, Fulcrum racing speed xlr
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Thanks chaps. Bit confused now though. Am I:
1. Slackening stem bolts, doing up top bolt a bit, re-tightening?
2. Slackening top bolt, slackening stem bolts, pushing down on bars, re-tightening stem then top bolt?0 -
Slacken stem bolts. Check for any play by rocking bike. If you notice any clucking tighten top bolt a little. Push down on the stem if you like but tighten stem bolts last.argon 18 e116 2013 Vision Metron 80
Bianchi Oltre XR Sram Red E-tap, Fulcrum racing speed xlr
De Rosa SK pininfarina disc
S Works Tarmac e-tap 2017
Rose pro sl disc0 -
Thanks for clearing that up.
I'll give that a go first. I have grease and carbon grip if I need to be more invasive.0 -
noodleman wrote:Slacken stem bolts. Check for any play by rocking bike. If you notice any clucking tighten top bolt a little. Push down on the stem if you like but tighten stem bolts last.
Do this. I definitely recommend pushing down on the bars/stem front clamp as you tighten the two stem bolts evenly bit by bit as this ensures the stem and spacers are pushed tightly together. The slightest movement between spacers not visible to naked eye can cause a creak even if there is no headset play. In my experience this can be an issue as new bikes settle down.0 -
Mercia Man wrote:noodleman wrote:Slacken stem bolts. Check for any play by rocking bike. If you notice any clucking tighten top bolt a little. Push down on the stem if you like but tighten stem bolts last.
Do this. I definitely recommend pushing down on the bars/stem front clamp as you tighten the two stem bolts evenly bit by bit as this ensures the stem and spacers are pushed tightly together. The slightest movement between spacers not visible to naked eye can cause a creak even if there is no headset play. In my experience this can be an issue as new bikes settle down.
That is what tightening the top bolt is meant to do. It should remove any vertical play. Then you tighten the stem clamp bolts to keep it there.
My carbon bike has headset cups pressed into the headtube. When I first built it up everything seemed tight enough, but after the first shakedown ride the headset felt a bit clattery. It was clear that riding around on my crappy local roads had caused some of the components to bed in a bit and create some play.
Undid clamp bolts, tweaked the top-cap bolt a bit more, tightened the stem bolts again, and all's been silent for nearly 4 years now.
If you find that you cannot remove the play by tightening the top cap, either the bung / star nut is being pulled up the steerer, or you have insufficient gap between the top of the steerer and the underside of the cap.0 -
Just to avoid misunderstanding I am not recommending pushing down on the stem to take out play in headset. That is obviously done by top bolt. But carbon is weirdly creaky stuff and holding the stem firmly down as you re-tighten the two stem clamping bolts onto the steerer does help to avoid creaks caused by carbon spacers grinding with each other as you go over bumps or brake. I'm not promising this is a cure for OP's noise but I think it's worth trying before taking everything apart.0
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Thanks again all.
I guess it's components settling as I'm not a light rider and I've been crashing along crappy local roads on it.
I'll do the adjustments and see how I get on.0 -
noodleman wrote:Normal grease on carbon fibre can attack the material.
This myth pops up from time to time but Ive never seen any evidence to support it and plenty to refute.0 -
wishitwasallflat wrote:noodleman wrote:Normal grease on carbon fibre can attack the material.
This myth pops up from time to time but Ive never seen any evidence to support it and plenty to refute.
I'm hoping it's rubbish; I get grease all over the place when I'm working on my bike. I quite like the black fingerprinty just got it back from my mechanic look.0 -
wishitwasallflat wrote:noodleman wrote:Normal grease on carbon fibre can attack the material.
This myth pops up from time to time but Ive never seen any evidence to support it and plenty to refute.
You're probably right. I guess it's more likely to stop people greasing carbon parts and then over tightening to prevent slippage.argon 18 e116 2013 Vision Metron 80
Bianchi Oltre XR Sram Red E-tap, Fulcrum racing speed xlr
De Rosa SK pininfarina disc
S Works Tarmac e-tap 2017
Rose pro sl disc0 -
noodleman wrote:wishitwasallflat wrote:noodleman wrote:Normal grease on carbon fibre can attack the material.
This myth pops up from time to time but Ive never seen any evidence to support it and plenty to refute.
You're probably right. I guess it's more likely to stop people greasing carbon parts and then over tightening to prevent slippage.
Best bet is to just use carbon paste as it reduces force needed to get a good friction fit, and AFAIK you don't get carbon on carbon interfaces between moving parts, as carbon isn't well suited to that task, so there is no real need for grease or the like as a lubricant.0 -
PS I had a creak from a headset once that had been adjusted to have no play and a 1/32 of an extra rotation on the pre-load bolt sorted it and didn't cause any perceptible difference in how the steerer rotated.0
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DavesNotHere wrote:benws1 wrote:Do you check for play by holding the front brake and wiggling the bike forwards and backwards?
Yes. Make sure you push down the stem and tighten fully THEN do up the top bolt, if you do it the other way round you could end up with same problem
^ This is b0ll0cks :roll: You set the pre-load and eliminate play by tightening the topcap bolt - the stem must be fully loose so that it can compress the spacers and top bearing cover. Once the pre-load is set THEN tighten the stem bolts to the correct torque setting.FFS! Harden up and grow a pair0 -
DavesNotHere wrote:benws1 wrote:Do you check for play by holding the front brake and wiggling the bike forwards and backwards?
Yes. Make sure you push down the stem and tighten fully THEN do up the top bolt, if you do it the other way round you could end up with same problem
^ WTF? I'd hope that anyone with half a brain would appreciate that once the stem bolts are done up, tightening the top-cap bolt cannot achieve it's purpose of setting the head-set pre-load.FFS! Harden up and grow a pair0 -
Slackened stem bolts and tightened down the top bolt. Still making a noise. Its like a horrible cracking sound.
I did the top bolt up a good turn or so and it still didn't get rid of the noise.
I'll show it to the lbs tomorrow but its bloody annoying. Ive also discovered it will be hard to drop the steerer out to get to everything as the hydraulic brake lines are internally routed through the damn forks.0 -
You havent cracked the steerer tube by any chance have you? Hopefully not but if you've tightened the stem bolts excessively it's possible.argon 18 e116 2013 Vision Metron 80
Bianchi Oltre XR Sram Red E-tap, Fulcrum racing speed xlr
De Rosa SK pininfarina disc
S Works Tarmac e-tap 2017
Rose pro sl disc0 -
Nope. Tightened them to 5nm using my Ritchey Torque Key.
Took bike into lbs on Saturday. They took the headset apart and noticed that the factory hadn't greased the bits inside it properly. There was a section on the bearings that was dry. Lbs greased it and the noise seems to have stopped now.
Took it for a 26 mile blast yesterday and it was as quiet as a mouse. Hope it stays that way.0