Di2 failures - switch to Mechanical?

Bullet1

Having run Ultegra 6870 for the past two years I'm losing confidence in it!

Last year when on holiday my rear mech failed - 3 days later and an international delivery I was up and running again. Just this past weekend my front mech has now failed and hence losing confidence in Di2.

I love the crisp shifting and in particular the auto trim on the front mech but hate not being an easy fix short of taking to bike shop when things go wrong.

I asked myself the same question last year but a guy I know who runs a bike shop said I was unlucky and if it weren't reliable he wouldn't run Di2 on all 3 of his bikes!

Thinking of switching to DA 9000 mechanical or maybe the extra £200/£300 for the new DA. Thinking selling my other Ultegra bits should off set at least some of the costs.

Thoughts? Stick with Di2 or go DA mechanical!

vrsmatt

Any idea of the cause of failures? If its poor installation or maintenance then you could have issues with any groupset.

I think finding the cause of the failures will make your decision, if they are preventable then great, if they are random then confidence is gone.

Not a fan of Di2 myself and wont go for it until i have no choice,

kingpinsam

Depends how deep your pockets, you're going to get failures, and it's going to cost more to fix, but for general riding I still prefer it.

In ~20,000 miles I'm now on my 3rd front mech and 2nd battery. Shifter buttons on the left lever rattle but still work ok. Rear mech still going ok (scratched badly after a crash), no problems with cables or junction boxes, but a friend had a cable fail which was a ball ache to chase down.

Maybe I've been a bit unlucky, but I commute and train in all weather. The 2nd front mech died in Jan this year due to corrosion after all the salt we had on the roads during the cold snap. I've just picked up a 105 CX bike (with disc brakes) that I plan to use as my poor weather trainer/commuter next winter due to the wear and tear the bad weather puts on equipment.

On Saturday I found my battery was flat just 12 days after the last charge, so looks like that's on the blink again.

Having 2 di2 bikes certainly helps; when things go wrong it's not too hard to plug different bits in and diagnose the problem. I had to fork out quite a bit to get speedy repairs from bike shops.

For a low mileage dedicated race bike I'm about 50/50 between di2/mechanical.
For a summer trainer / commuter / weekend club run bike I'd still recommend di2.
For cold/wet winter riding, I'd steer towards mechanical, or certainly fit a proper mud guard to protect the front mech, but my opinion might change again next winter after messing about with gummed up cables again.

dinyull

What are your DIY skills like?

If you can't fix your own shoot, mechanical isn't going to be any better. But if you can, your still going to have to wait for Wiggle etc to deliver new parts over most LBS that offer free fitting with new gear.

Would it not be better to find another LBS that stocks Di2 so you don't have to wait a few days?

Lookyhere

Dinyull wrote:

What are your DIY skills like?

If you can't fix your own shoot, mechanical isn't going to be any better. But if you can, your still going to have to wait for Wiggle etc to deliver new parts over most LBS that offer free fitting with new gear.

Would it not be better to find another LBS that stocks Di2 so you don't have to wait a few days?

OP was stuck in abroad when his di2 RD went faulty.

few shops stock di2 bits as they cannot compete on price but every bike shop the world over will have a cable and a cheap compatible mech.

Most folk can go to Park tools .com and learn how to fit said cable or they know someone who can.

that said, everyone i know who has Di2 loves it and have few, if any problems.

dinyull

Few people have the money to spunk a grand on Dura-Ace. If you do (or Di2) I'm sure ymost would be happy to travel to a LocalishBS* to get parts and fixed/fitted over ordering them and waiting a few days (holiday or not).

And that should help answer the question. Is he willing to travel for a LBS or wait a few days for parts. If not, mechanical all the way.

* I'm thinking a bike porn type shop - but yes I understand few places stock Di2 on the shelf.

Bullet1

Whist I'm by no means loaded I'm more cash rich and time poor. Pretty much do all my maintenance myself and probably except the bottom bracket would feel confident to set up and fettle mechanical myself.

With Di2 it'll be a drop off and pick up - I start work early, away a couple of nights a week and finish late as such minimal time to fit into the LBS 9-5 opening hours. A such a part arriving by mail order much more convenient.....hence pointing towards mechanical!

robbo2011

Go for mechanical. At least everything can be fixed quickly and easily.

meanredspider

If you understand the basics of Di2, diagnosing the fault is pretty straightforward if it was working in the first place (i.e. No firmware conflicts etc).

If you want to be reasonably sure you're covered for a holiday, a spare cable, battery and RD will get you out of most fixes (return to Wiggle when you get back). That said, if nearly 6 years ago, I'd bought those spares, they'd still be in their packets - despite 3 Di2 bikes.

flasher

DA mechanical will still be working in 20 years time (with a few cable changes) can the same be said for Di2?

Personally I'd just go to Ultegra 6800, so your'd only need shifters, FD and RD.

meanredspider

Flasher wrote:

DA mechanical will still be working in 20 years time (with a few cable changes) can the same be said for Di2?

Don't see why not. I'd question how many of us are using anything that 20 years old as compared to the number of people using stuff that's under 10 years old. Apart from the battery (mine has lasted 6 years so far) there's nothing that need inherently wear out.

flasher

meanredspider wrote:

Apart from the battery (mine has lasted 6 years so far) there's nothing that need inherently wear out.

Good for you, but the OP has said that in 2 years he's needed both a new FD and RD, he maybe an exception.

cougie

To be fair most people i know dont use their flash kit in winter. Salt and wet and ice. Its not kind on the bike. Cheaper stuff on the winter bike and save the best for the summer. Probably cost efficient too.

kingpinsam

Flasher wrote:

DA mechanical will still be working in 20 years time (with a few cable changes) can the same be said for Di2?

Time's not really a good measure of reliability. I've worn mechanical components out within a year, of course it's all going to work if you leave it on a shelf. STI internals start to wear out, front derailleur cages get bent, fatigue and snap. Adjustment screws seize. I'd say the component wear/failure rate is fairly similar between mechanical and Di2

cougie wrote:

To be fair most people i know dont use their flash kit in winter. Salt and wet and ice. Its not kind on the bike. Cheaper stuff on the winter bike and save the best for the summer. Probably cost efficient too.

Is it really more cost efficient to buy a second bike? or just put aside some of that extra outlay for maintenance?

In the holiday situation, you're still going to get caught out if the bike doesn't turn up at the airport or it gets crushed by the baggage handlers, it's good to have a backup plan (e.g. know where the nearest hire place is). You're still going to lose a few days cycling if a DA shifter brakes and you're in the middle of nowhere on a Saturday afternoon.

MiddleRinger

I had Di2 on my commuter bike through the worst of what a British winters and roads could throw at me and I was fairly lazy with my maintenance and bike washing. Never missed a beat. I love electronic shifting, but mechanical is much easier to work on or fix IF something goes wrong (for me anyway).

I'd say you were very unlucky to have both mechs fail on you!

meanredspider

cougie wrote:

To be fair most people i know dont use their flash kit in winter. Salt and wet and ice. Its not kind on the bike. Cheaper stuff on the winter bike and save the best for the summer. Probably cost efficient too.

My oldest Di2 (on the Volagi) has been through everything - including totally submerging the FD and battery several times. It was my Highland commuter in everything but ice - and I hardly touched it. To that point, if I were still doing Highland winter commutes, I'd definitely fit Di2 to my MTB. Cable shifting, ice and salt are a terrible mix. Really irritating to have to stop to manually move the FD or RD because the spring wasn't man enough to deal with the ice or crap when it's as cold as -11c.

sloppyschleckonds

meanredspider wrote:

cougie wrote:

To be fair most people i know dont use their flash kit in winter. Salt and wet and ice. Its not kind on the bike. Cheaper stuff on the winter bike and save the best for the summer. Probably cost efficient too.

My oldest Di2 (on the Volagi) has been through everything - including totally submerging the FD and battery several times. It was my Highland commuter in everything but ice - and I hardly touched it. To that point, if I were still doing Highland winter commutes, I'd definitely fit Di2 to my MTB. Cable shifting, ice and salt are a terrible mix. Really irritating to have to stop to manually move the FD or RD because the spring wasn't man enough to deal with the ice or crap when it's as cold as -11c.

But the OP's has failed twice from JRA, nothing extreme.

meanredspider

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

cougie wrote:

To be fair most people i know dont use their flash kit in winter. Salt and wet and ice. Its not kind on the bike. Cheaper stuff on the winter bike and save the best for the summer. Probably cost efficient too.

My oldest Di2 (on the Volagi) has been through everything - including totally submerging the FD and battery several times. It was my Highland commuter in everything but ice - and I hardly touched it. To that point, if I were still doing Highland winter commutes, I'd definitely fit Di2 to my MTB. Cable shifting, ice and salt are a terrible mix. Really irritating to have to stop to manually move the FD or RD because the spring wasn't man enough to deal with the ice or crap when it's as cold as -11c.

But the OP's has failed twice from JRA, nothing extreme.

Yup - sh!t happens. If he's lost confidence in it, change - I really don't care. Just providing some balance to say that I don't believe there's inherent fragility to the system. In fact, if I'm honest, I'm rather ashamed by how much I abuse my Di2 and rather impressed by how it has just absorbed that abuse. I know for certain that a cable system would need far more TLC because that's what I used to run on my Focus bikes.

fenix

I'm probably kidding myself that its cost efficient to have a second bike for winter.

1. It has full guards and lights on all the time.
2. Wider tyres and bulletproof too.
3. Cheaper components.

It'd only take one spill on ice to knacker your expensive rear mech.

(OK its really an N+1 thing isn't it ?)

keezx

For a winter bike or commuter is only 1 principle working: KISS.
Something that's not on the bike won't fail.

kingpinsam

Keezx wrote:

For a winter bike or commuter is only 1 principle working: KISS.

Yes and in my case it has been simpler to not have a dedicated commuter/winter bike

dennisn

Are YOU the mechanic? If so, I vote bad mechanic.

veronese68

dennisn wrote:

Are YOU the mechanic? If so, I vote bad mechanic.

Some shop mechanics are worse than some DIYers. Doesn't have to be the OP fettling to make the cause a bad mechanic.

bikes`n`guns

"Keezx wrote:
For a winter bike or commuter is only 1 principle working: KISS.


So single speed then ?

Di2 has been flawless for me so far (3yrs or there abouts) Every system will have issues so it`s up to the OP if he wants the shifting of Di2 or not.

meanredspider

Yup - viewtopic.php?f=40012&t=13078351 there's someone with a mechanical system that could use some help. Frankly, I'd rather be diagnosing a digital system than an analogue one (though I might prefer to pay for the mechanical fix)

dennisn

Veronese68 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Are YOU the mechanic? If so, I vote bad mechanic.

Some shop mechanics are worse than some DIYers. Doesn't have to be the OP fettling to make the cause a bad mechanic.

Many, many, many home mechanics are worse than shop mechanics. Of course it "Doesn't have to be the OP..." but if he's been doing the work I'd put my money on him being the problem.

froze

Supposedly Shimano has a firmware upgrade that your LBS should be able to do, if they don't know about it then take it a different shop. The upgrade was due to problems with the first generation of Di2 which Shimano should have repaired for free but they didn't accept responsibility for it so you'll have to pay unless you get a nice LBS that knows about the problem and are fixing them for free, it doesn't take long, maybe 5 minutes. I would check out that route first before going nuts and replacing the entire system.

While I don't particularly care for the battery systems they do shift better. I prefer the simplicity of the mechanical systems, their easy to repair, rarely anything goes wrong, no battery to die while on a ride or replace every 4 or so years, no computer to fail, and no servo motors to fail; then of course if something fails there will be no parts for an older generation which entails replacing the whole thing. Not my cup of tea. But since you already have one I would try to get it fixed first, but of course it's your decision.

JesseD

New to Di2 (ultegra) and am impressed by the shifting, however I was out riding on Saturday on the club run and lost all power to the mechs, no lights were coming showing on the junction box either, stuck in 36 x 19 for the fast section of the ride would have been no fun so dropped off the back to ride home solo, 5 mins later all power came back and off I went in pursuit of the rest of the guys, caught them and all was well. Took it to the LBS where I bought the bike who hooked it up to the laptop which showed all was fine and connected as it should be, however no power anywhere?

Tried a new battery – nothing, tried a new junction box- nothing, tried charging it – nope.

It’s gone back in today to be stripped down and hopefully find the problem, frustrating though.

It did make me think that mechanical is a lot easier to fix when it goes wrong, especially on the side of the road.

The LBS mentioned a firmware update, hoping they will do this FOC when they are fault finding.

PK1

My Di2 completely failed on Sunday when I restarted my ride after an Ice Cream stop . It was stuck in 52 / 23. I went for about a mile and all started working again ? Been fine since :-) I wondered if it got hot in the sun and shut down temporarily.

sloppyschleckonds

PK1 wrote:

Ice Cream stop

Ice Cream is known to be terrible for cyclists.