Brake Quesion

myideal

Hi,

I have a Cannodale Synapse Sora which I love as a bike to ride. Feels so good and really has made me love going longer and longer distances on the bike.

However there is one part of the bike that is shocking. The brakes! They just dont feel responsive and you have to really pull to get some scrubbing off of speed, I wouldn't feel confident stopping from speed quickly, if it was required.

Hence my question now.

What options are open to me to improve my brakes? Would swapping the pads to something like Swiss Stop work? If so, would they fit my bike as notice they come in a shapes and sizes it appears? Also what colour would I need?

Some details that may be useful:

Shifters: Shimano Sora 3500
Brakeset: Promax RC-459, long reach
Rims: Maddux RS 3.0, 32-hole

All help and suggestions would be really welcome as I know people on here know way more than me on these things.

wotnoshoeseh

I don't know much about the ProMax brakesets, but in looking at long reach brakes, ones that are highly recommended are the Shimano BR-R650 long reach. There are also R450's but those are Tiagra level whereas the R650's are more Ultegra level. Irrespective they will both be good options.
Personally for long reach I run the Miche brakeset and have found no issues with them once a decent cartridge pad is fitted.
SwissStops are good, and for the alloy rims, I think you should be looking at the BXP version, but you will need to buy cartridge holders to start with, as I think Sora's just have a solid brake shoe.
Even an upgrade to Shimano 105 cartridges and pads should make a difference though, and I think if I were you I'd start there, and then decide if you then want to upgrade the callipers afterward.

myideal

Sounds logical to give swapping the pads a try.

Would these be the correct ones to buy for Swiss Stop? It looks like they are the whole unit to me. Then then in the future so you just buy the replacement cartridge?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/swissstop-flash ... ke-blocks/

sheffsimon

myideal wrote:

Sounds logical to give swapping the pads a try.

Would these be the correct ones to buy for Swiss Stop? It looks like they are the whole unit to me. Then then in the future so you just buy the replacement cartridge?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/swissstop-flash ... ke-blocks/

Get these....

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-essent ... ts-4-pack/

Just as good as swissstop and a fraction of the price....and yes, you just replace the pads once you have the holders. Don't bother with the litte screw in the holder, and I would remove it before fitting the pads. They corrode in, and are a pig to remove, and serve no purpose.

Have a read of this...

viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=13077167

micrographia

You don't have to look hard on this forum for stories of pads popping loose from holders under hard braking, including the wiggle ones. For example

viewtopic.php?t=12876366

Use the grub screws, your brakes are the most safety critical item on your bike.

myideal

So the wiggle ones are deemed to offer similar performance to the more expensive ones?

Are these stories about pads popping out common? Sort of has me worrying reading that.

fenix

Never had a pad pop out and never heard of it until I read those posts. Must admit I do use the screws though,

micrographia

myideal wrote:

Are these stories about pads popping out common? Sort of has me worrying reading that.

Not if you use the grub screw. It's generally accepted that cartridge brake pads work better than the single piece pads so they are well worth having. FWIW, I've never had an issue with screws corroding in place. Doesn't make replacing the pads any less of a filthy job though!

svetty

I have found no difference between stock Shimano R55 pads and the Swiss-stop BXP ones - except the price

keef66

I have the long drop BR450s on my winter bike. When they wore down I replaced the all in one moulded Tiagra level blocks with 5800 cartridge types. Definitely better braking once bedded in. If the inserts ever wear out I may try the Wiggle ones.

mtbjunkie08

Does anyone know if the inserts from Wiggles Brake Holders http://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-essent ... igodigital will fit in my Tektro R540 holders as I''d prefer black to the silver.
I see Wiggle also sell the Lifeline inserts seperately but unfortunately are currently out of stock (shimano).

myideal

Thanks for the advice on here, I've ordered some of those wiggle ones and will see how they perform. Sounds like most people think they will be an improvement on the standard blocks that are on the bike at the moment.

Is there some smart science that makes these cartridge based pads more effective?

myideal

Also sorry for being mega thick here, but when looking at the calapers what is actually meant by the term "long reach"?

How do i know for example if in the future if one particular calaper would fit my bike? I'm assuming given all these different types it's not that simple to find the right one?

wotnoshoeseh

Long reach refers to the vertical distance between the fixing bolt of the calliper and the actual rim. More "sport" bikes will not have room for a mudguard between wheel and frame so would use short reach (or standard) brake callipers, whereas those bikes that have substantial room for a mudguard will have a longer distance and subsequently require long reach brakes.

Standard reach have a "drop" of up to ±49 mm.; long reach up to 57-59mm. drop.

As for cartridge shoes having better braking, they are usually quite a bit bigger (longer) than the solid blocks, the shoe for the cartridge will also add a bit more structure and rigidity to the braking pad plus you can easily specify / select different brake blocks for better performance.

Hope this helps.

sheffsimon

micrographia wrote:

You don't have to look hard on this forum for stories of pads popping loose from holders under hard braking, including the wiggle ones. For example

viewtopic.php?t=12876366

Use the grub screws, your brakes are the most safety critical item on your bike.

How does the grub screw hold the pad in?

They don't screw into the pad, just protrude through into a small indent in the back of the pad. The action of braking forces the pad hard into the shoe.

In all my years of riding and racing I've never heard of anybody's brake pad coming out.

micrographia

All true and neither have I, the screw is clearly there to stop pads coming out of their holder if applied to a wheel turning backwards, but you can still find stories on cycling forums of brakes failing after the grub screw has been lost or not used. Maybe a pad has been unmounted because of a sharp stop on a steep hill where the rider has held the bike on the brakes before getting a foot down? Someone rocking their bike back and forwards on the brakes to check headset play? Who knows. Does it matter why? It's only a wee screw and sh*t happens, so why not use it? A bit of thread lock should stop corrosion.

myideal

Brakes have arrived and fitted.

Had to adjust the amount of pull on the leaver. Hoping its ok to slacken off the cable holder on the brake, pull a bit more through and tighten?

Not done something silly here that will be a problem later on, have I?

Matthewfalle

micrographia wrote:

All true and neither have I, the screw is clearly there to stop pads coming out of their holder if applied to a wheel turning backwards, but you can still find stories on cycling forums of brakes failing after the grub screw has been lost or not used. Maybe a pad has been unmounted because of a sharp stop on a steep hill where the rider has held the bike on the brakes before getting a foot down? Someone rocking their bike back and forwards on the brakes to check headset play? Who knows. Does it matter why? It's only a wee screw and sh*t happens, so why not use it? A bit of thread lock should stop corrosion.

If they do get corroded in and you can't get them out with the 2mm Allen key or whatever it is just grip them really tight with a sideways pair of pliers (gangsta style) and undo them either using the pliers or by tuning the pad.

myideal

You were right about the pads making the difference. It's a massive improvement just by switching the pads and those wiggle ones seem to work fine.

Only thing i noticed at first was a bit of a sqeek when i was putting them on under load, however seems to have stopped doing that now. Assuming that's just normal as they are new.

My metal rims are a bit dirty and marked with rubber etc. Are there any methods / tips that can be used to clean these quickly and easily?

lesfirth

micrographia wrote:

You don't have to look hard on this forum for stories of pads popping loose from holders under hard braking, including the wiggle ones. For example

viewtopic.php?t=12876366

Use the grub screws, your brakes are the most safety critical item on your bike.

A post by Big Mat in the topic referred to above suggests putting oil on the back of the pad to make assembly easier. Am I missing something but IMHO this is one big bad idea?

myideal

That just has to be stupid.

Oil anywhere near brakes is a bad idea.

on-yer-bike

Surely they can only pop out if they are fitted the wrong way round with the opening at the front. Unless of course the bike is ridden in reverse. I have seen brake shoes fitted the wrong way round and both pads were just about to fallout.

964cup

myideal wrote:

That just has to be stupid.

Oil anywhere near brakes is a bad idea.

Liquid soap is the answer. Oil would be idiotic, IMO.