Genesis Volare – 853 or 931

ChainCharlie

All,

In the market for new frame. Really unsure of the difference between the two from a user perspective. I prefer the paintjob on the 931 but that not a good enough reason to fork out a bit more.

Thoughts from anyone?

timothyw

Well, 931 is stainless steel so won't rust, which is why the frame has the large amounts of bare metal visible - you're paying a premium in part for this. Similar to the way that titanium bike frames tend to have a brushed, rather than painted finish - so that you can see what you're paying for.

It is also in theory a teeny bit stronger, and so built lighter, although in practice Genesis appear to quote approx 70g so not much in it - and if you are shopping for a lightweight bike steel is never the way to go.

I wouldn't unduly worry about the 853 rusting of course, so long as it is treated with a reasonable amount of care it will last for many decades. 853 is also excellent quality steel.

In practice, on a test ride I'm pretty certain that you wouldn't (blindfolded) be able to tell the difference between the two - if the choice were down to just those two I personally would save my money and get the 853.

If you are happy spending the larger amount of money, you probably ought also consider custom built options. Other modern steel options that spring to mind are the Ritchey Logic, or the new Holdsworth line at Planet X - the Competition is quite a lot like the Volare - http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRHOCO/hol ... n-frameset - then there's a few other more traditional designs: http://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/frames/roa ... =price-asc

ChainCharlie

TimothyW wrote:

Well, 931 is stainless steel so won't rust, which is why the frame has the large amounts of bare metal visible - you're paying a premium in part for this. Similar to the way that titanium bike frames tend to have a brushed, rather than painted finish - so that you can see what you're paying for.

It is also in theory a teeny bit stronger, and so built lighter, although in practice Genesis appear to quote approx 70g so not much in it - and if you are shopping for a lightweight bike steel is never the way to go.

I wouldn't unduly worry about the 853 rusting of course, so long as it is treated with a reasonable amount of care it will last for many decades. 853 is also excellent quality steel.

In practice, on a test ride I'm pretty certain that you wouldn't (blindfolded) be able to tell the difference between the two - if the choice were down to just those two I personally would save my money and get the 853.

If you are happy spending the larger amount of money, you probably ought also consider custom built options. Other modern steel options that spring to mind are the Ritchey Logic, or the new Holdsworth line at Planet X - the Competition is quite a lot like the Volare - http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRHOCO/hol ... n-frameset - then there's a few other more traditional designs: http://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/frames/roa ... =price-asc

Quite a comprehensive response, thanks! I am benefitting from a discount that basically makes the frame about £1100 for the 931. So with this in mind, it might be worth opting for it over a custom build. I'm looking at a bike for life so I sorta want to get the best spec.

I think half the issue with the 853 is that I know there's a slightly better model. Even though, like you say, the difference is minimal.

ayjaycee

ChainCharlie wrote:

I prefer the paintjob on the 931 but that not a good enough reason to fork out a bit more.

Within reason, IMHO it definitely is. Sorry, I don't know anything about either bike

btiratsoo

With that level of discount I'd buy the 931. Reason - colour, you'll know you bought the "slightly better model" and simply why not? Around £300 quid difference at that discount so crack on!

Ben

Hinaultscrapcousin

I have an 2014 853 Volare, this one http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/cate ... -14-48146/ , it's a brilliant bike and I mean seriously brilliant. It does everything I could want in a bike and I've only changed the crankset to a 105 53/39, cassette to 11/28, saddle to an ISM and rewrapped the bars. Invest some money in some better parts and I think it'll rival anything on the road in terms of comfort and performance. I've long considered getting a custom frame built but each time I sit down and work out what I want I realise I would basically be getting the same frame built again, just probably in a different tubeset.

If it's a bike for life and you're worried about wondering "What if?" if you plump for the 853, I would say go for the 931 (Should I point out that 953 exists and will be lighter..?). Bear in mind that the steel that will best suit you and your riding isn't necessarily the highest grade/lightest. It really depends what you plan to do with the bike.

If your budget is a bit more flexible then you could look at having something hand built. There are a lot of framebuilders around, with people like Shand offering more of a set product range up to Saffron, Donhou, Rusby, Field, Swallow etc. who focus more on the custom stuff (although Donhou have their signature steel line). Saffron quote £1975 for a stainless frame (Reynolds 953 or Columbus XCR) and £1650 for 853/Spirit including fit but all framebuilders would select the tubes based on what you want and mix and match if required. Those prices are in line with Cinelli production steel frames or better, so you really do get value for money at the top end with framebuilders.

They're cureently out of stock but Gosforth list a £900 953 frame on their website:
http://gosforth.cc/store/gosforth-reynolds-953

Pair it with an Enve 2.0 and you're going to have an amazing frameset to build up how you want it.

ChainCharlie

Thanks both.

It will be used for crits/weekend rides. So bit of an all rounder with speed as the main focus. I'm partnering with an LBS hence the cheaper price so, although the other options look v interesting, I'd really want to stick to what they stock.

Although the Allez Sprint Expert is also tempting me outside of steel. Similar price bracket.
https://www.specialized.com/gb/gb/115727
Imagine ride quality will be harsher but frameset is a good kilo lighter than the volare...

47p2

Can't beat a nice piece of 931

ChainCharlie

47p2 wrote:

Can't beat a nice piece of 931

If only they had it in that paint job (or lack of) : :shock:

I distilled it now to Allez Sprint or 931. Ahhh!

timothyw

The green on that Allez Sprint is horrific, so personally I wouldn't go near it, but to each their own - if you could get the allez sprint in polished silver like this, well, then you have a dilemma on your hands:
http://www.specializedconceptstore.co.u ... d-edition/

I'd probably still go for the Genesis though.

btiratsoo

Genesis over the Allez any day. But mind you, a polished Allez Sprint....now that would be something. Aluminium polishes up really well and isn't too hard to get a very nice finish.

Hinaultscrapcousin

Personally I think that Allez looks horrific, each to their own though.

ChainCharlie

TimothyW wrote:

The green on that Allez Sprint is horrific, so personally I wouldn't go near it, but to each their own - if you could get the allez sprint in polished silver like this, well, then you have a dilemma on your hands:
http://www.specializedconceptstore.co.u ... d-edition/

I'd probably still go for the Genesis though.

Yup, the guys at cole coatings workshop would sort out the painjob no probs

Allez is lighter, slightly better value for money.

Genesis is....

btiratsoo

....steel, heavier, refined, good looking. No bells and whistles. No silly tube shapes.

ChainCharlie

btiratsoo wrote:

....steel, heavier, refined, good looking. No bells and whistles. No silly tube shapes.

Traditionalist...*cough*

I'm really warming to it...I guess weight isn't a huge issue when you screaming round a relatively flat circuit.

btiratsoo

I am a bit biased. I do have an Equilibrium. I also have an S-Works Tarmac. Love riding them both. Enjoy riding the Equilibrium the most though. No idea why.

You can overcome weight by power!!!! Hahaha

47p2

A few more to help make your mind up

btiratsoo

Makes me want to ditch the Tarmac for a Volare!

Hinaultscrapcousin

I rode through Moscow on my way to Wanlockhead on Saturday. Wasn't on my Volare though.

antonyfromoz

I have the Genesis 853 from 2015 http://road.cc/content/review/140306-ge ... -road-bike with Campagnolo athena, and I have swapped out the chainset to Athena carbon, the seatpost to carbon, the wheels and a few more changes to bring it to the way i like it ... I really like the bike and am constantly amazed by how it responds to effort while remaining comfortable. I have no idea how much it weighs but this was not really a consideration of mine when i got it. My understanding was that 853 and 931 are pretty much on par as regards to strength but obviously 931 has the benefit of not rusting. My guess is that the 70 grams lower weight is probably paint more than anything. I am sure that the Allez is a great bike but i would be really surprised if you regretted getting the Volare.

antonyfromoz

47p2 wrote:

A few more to help make your mind up

is that a titanium seatpost and, if so, would you recommend this over carbon?

ChainCharlie

antonyfromoz wrote:

I have the Genesis 853 from 2015 http://road.cc/content/review/140306-ge ... -road-bike with Campagnolo athena, and I have swapped out the chainset to Athena carbon, the seatpost to carbon, the wheels and a few more changes to bring it to the way i like it ... I really like the bike and am constantly amazed by how it responds to effort while remaining comfortable. I have no idea how much it weighs but this was not really a consideration of mine when i got it. My understanding was that 853 and 931 are pretty much on par as regards to strength but obviously 931 has the benefit of not rusting. My guess is that the 70 grams lower weight is probably paint more than anything. I am sure that the Allez is a great bike but i would be really surprised if you regretted getting the Volare.

I'm sold! Really warming to the classic look of the Volare. Watch this space for an update on the build. over the next few weeks...

47p2

antonyfromoz wrote:

is that a titanium seatpost and, if so, would you recommend this over carbon?

It is, I've never noticed any difference, so much so I sold it and put the original alloy post on again

mamil314

Be aware that you need to maintain steel frame to prevent hydroxidation, even 931 will rust, if neglected. Titanium might be the answer if that is a major concern. It is not as easily repaired when you crash in a crit, though.

meemik10

I had a Graham Weigh 853 frame and I loved it but it eventually gave way when the chain stays became rusty (it was second hand and it was my first bike so I was not up on how to take care of the frame). Wish I still had it. Really comfy and responsive.

ChainCharlie

So i took the plunge...

btiratsoo

Bang tidy mate.

svetty

ChainCharlie wrote:

So i took the plunge...

You clearly have long legs and a short body

ChainCharlie

Svetty wrote:

ChainCharlie wrote:

So i took the plunge...

You clearly have long legs and a short body

Correct you are! Could actually go a little longer than the 100mm stem on there at the mo. BB to saddle is 811mm so that seatpost is sitting pretty far out too.

47p2

Well done, excellent choice

ChainCharlie

47p2 wrote:

Well done, excellent choice

Strong! That's a weeny frame too.