Sufferfest - losing out ?

jgsi

Any new Sufferfest videos now only available via an app and not a direct download purchase - seems not too clever to me but obviously the business model is "suffering" due to opposition in the market place maybe?
A shame really.
I've just got Golden Cheetah Training mode back to work on Release 3.4 after a bit of faffing about so was planning to use turbo work during the summer with this again when a Zwift subscription would not be used cost effectively.

diy

The problem they have is like any video producer, their material is openly shared on torrenting sites and there is very little a small company can do to stop unlicensed access. Secondly apps have the advantage of being able to collect valuabl data on the consumer which they may choose to sell via data management platforms.

mamba80

Funnily enough, i just msg SF about this and suggested they charge double for video releases and/or only sell to buyers who ve bought a certain number of vid's

they pointed me to their statement on the website, so not much help.

there was a guy selling recordings of the app only videos, its easy enough to do, so it doesnt stop pirating.

jgsi

It's their choice obviously.. each sale was registered to name and address and the amount of hidden/ tracking information that can be stacked within the MP4 format is extensive so I'm with the belief that a certain amount of retrenchment in the face of market competition is playing a big part.

William Marshall

I was pretty miffed when they went app only. I've used them for a long time and done all the Tours of Sufferlandria until this year (and buy for the videos to be clear!). First they dropped TrainerRoad link, then soon after went app only. I can kind of see why but think it's a mistake. I pay for TR, Netflix and Eurosport. Suffer App is too much for what I would use and wouldn't replace those other, more flexible subscriptions. By way of comparison I worked out that buying the videos each year versus monthly subscription for the app meant it had doubled in price. Their contention is that it also has training plans and yoga. Neither of which I use. They've forced long term users to make a decision and there are some of us who have dropped on the other side of the fence.

diy

they should go youtube and make money from ads

better to make a penny on 10m views than 15 quid on 5000 dvd sales that cost a fiver to print.

MiddleRinger

I've bought a few SF vids in the past, but wouldn't bother with the app only vids. I like having them in my laptop rather than phone or tablet. I think I'm probably in the minority's though.

I like their "Elements of Style" video. Apart from that I think I'll be sticking with Zwift for my indoor work (until an awesome Zwift-beating competitor comes along, but that's a whole other forum thread).

bvduck

Hey guys - David McQuillen, CSO of The Sufferfest here. Hope you don't mind if I chime in. Going app-only was a huge decision for us and not taken lightly. In the end, we felt it was the best thing we could do for Sufferlandrians and for the long-term viability of our business. A lot of our long-time Sufferlandrians were skeptical -- but those who have tried the app have found it a fantastic training tool. I'm pleased to say it's the best decision we've ever taken and we're working very hard to add new functionality and content to the app that will make it even more valuable to our subscribers. There are now 61 videos in the app (37 cycling, 3 running, 1 triathlon, 20 yoga) and 10 training plans -- hopefully, we'll get to the point where you guys will give it a try (it does have a 7 day free trial).

DIY: Yes, piracy is a massive problem for us. Making money from youtube ads isn't possible -- youtube doesn't pay enough to sustain a business like ours.
MAMBA80: Would you be able to point me in the direction of the guy who was selling our app-only videos? It would be extremely helpful.
William Marshall: Hopefully, as we keep adding new content, you'll find the app to be great value.
Middle Ringer: We have both a Windows PC and Mac Computer app so you can use the app on your laptop.

Thanks for listening guys. Open to any and all feedback, ideas. Thanks and IWBMATTKYT, David.

diy

I often thought you missed a trick in licensing gyms. Immersion spin classes have really taken off in recent years and the vast majority of gyms end up paying Les mills for RPM and Sprint Licenses (as well as the instructors). There is another tier which don't have the kit for immersion, but could easily mount a couple of TVs. Personally I think RPM is more miss than hit on most releases. You could very easily compete with training material to rival them. You still have a brand that cyclists recognise. I'm not sure that business opportunity will be around in a few years.

If you are getting in to apps, this could give gyms without data bikes a way of offering a better experience.

bvduck

diy wrote:

I often thought you missed a trick in licensing gyms. ....If you are getting in to apps, this could give gyms without data bikes a way of offering a better experience.

You mean like this? https://thesufferfest.com/pages/gyms-studios-clubs

sancho_panza

As a former long term vid user and now an app user I feel the new system is light years ahead of the video-only operation. I use a Stages PM and Polar HRM, both of which link perfectly with Bluetooth to the iPad; everything is adjusted to my FTP, which means I don't overdo it but I'm always kept in the zone. Perhaps this could be achieved through Zwift, but the music and entertainment value of The Sufferfest make it really engaging and good fun. (Also, I have a sketchy internet connection where I train so Zwift is out of the question.) I don't think the music and narrative footage should be underestimated.

I had some connection issues with the app just after I started using it and the help desk did a brilliant job (turned out the fault was at my end).

I am really impressed and have no intention of using anything else (till I get back on the road obviously!)

scott_w1987

Sancho Panza wrote:

As a former long term vid user and now an app user I feel the new system is light years ahead of the video-only operation. I use a Stages PM and Polar HRM, both of which link perfectly with Bluetooth to the iPad; everything is adjusted to my FTP, which means I don't overdo it but I'm always kept in the zone. Perhaps this could be achieved through Zwift, but the music and entertainment value of The Sufferfest make it really engaging and good fun. (Also, I have a sketchy internet connection where I train so Zwift is out of the question.) I don't think the music and narrative footage should be underestimated.

I had some connection issues with the app just after I started using it and the help desk did a brilliant job (turned out the fault was at my end).

I am really impressed and have no intention of using anything else (till I get back on the road obviously!)

x2.

I've used the app all winter and it's so much better than the old video format or it certainly is for me linking it with a power meter/smart trainer with ERG mode. Once you record an FTP/LHRT on rubberglove and the app automatically adjusts all the videos to suit that FTP, the only issue this brings is that some videos can be very hard and If you're not having a good day or you've had a hard week it can be a struggle to hit numbers. But thankfully they included an intensity slider in the pause screen so you can reduce you're FTP while you do that video to make it more manageable.

All the videos are downloadable so the internet isn't needed and there's a passport section that stores all your ride history so you can go back and compare sessions.

I have both zwift and trainer road(although both cancelled as of now, but have a month remaining) and I always use Sufferfest 3 times a week over the other two. It's far more enjoyable but still maintains good structure. I'll keep my subscription running most of the year and I'll continue to fit a session in once a week around outdoors training/racing.

MiddleRinger

I may have to give the PC app a try on the free trial.

bvduck

MiddleRinger wrote:

I may have to give the PC app a try on the free trial.

Do please give it a go and let me know what you think. Just released a new version (1.3) two days ago that we're really happy with.

benjamess

bvduck wrote:

MiddleRinger wrote:

I may have to give the PC app a try on the free trial.

Do please give it a go and let me know what you think. Just released a new version (1.3) two days ago that we're really happy with.

so can you connect ant+ accessories (HRM, speed, cadence) to your laptop and use with the windows app?

bobmcstuff

I'm a believer in companies sticking to what they're good at - like how Garmin now seem to have accepted they're best off as a hardware maker rather than trying to compete with Strava for their online platform as well.

Sufferfest videos are the best in the market (and I own I think 8 or 9) but for those of us using e.g., trainerroad I'm not going to pay for the app version of Sufferfest as well if it doesn't link in. Trainerroad seems to be a much more complete training tool, as opposed to Sufferfest's videos with a tacked on training tool. Although I'm sure Sufferfest can catch up on the technical front, it seems like they're pitching at a market which already has a number of good players rather than playing to their strengths as a video manufacturer and having tie ins to the training platforms.

bvduck

benjamess wrote:

bvduck wrote:

MiddleRinger wrote:

I may have to give the PC app a try on the free trial.

so can you connect ant+ accessories (HRM, speed, cadence) to your laptop and use with the windows app?

You sure can! Across our Windows, Mac, iPad and iPhone platforms, you can connect your smart trainer, power meter, power pedals, HRM, cadence sensor, etc. You can also connect a speed sensor if you want to use virtual power -- https://vimeo.com/187116880

bvduck

bobmcstuff wrote:

I'm not going to pay for the app version of Sufferfest as well if it doesn't link in. Trainerroad seems to be a much more complete training tool, as opposed to Sufferfest's videos with a tacked on training tool.

Our app connects to all your devices and will set specific power/cadence targets and track your performance. If you use TR, it's the same kind of connections. When you use the 'fest app, though, you'll be doing our workouts exactly as our coaches intended them to be done, rather than the way another company has interpreted our workouts. We also offer 10 different training plans, drills videos and 20 different yoga for cyclists videos to improve recovery. And we've got more awesome stuff coming later this year...

joey54321

I agree with most of the posters here.

I own 6 or 7 of the videos and normally stick them on for something to watch/listen to while doing my own TrainerRoad workout.

I like the TrainerRoad workouts as they can be more controller and progressive (I did once suggest Sufferfest do a 'progressive' video where the intervals get a little bit longer for, say, 3 videos/episodes but they didn't like the idea).

I recently went to buy another video for some new footage and music and found they went to the subscription model. I'm not going to pay per month for what I use it for so have just started watching random vids on Youtube and listening to music via Spotify. [Tho it has inspired me to borrow a GoPro from a friend and try and making my own 'turbo distraction videos'].

gcwebbyuk

I've used TR for a couple of years now, and have signed up for the Sufferfest app. I like it, it has made me much more aware of my cadence, whereas with TR i generally stuck to about 90rpm.

I've also made good use of the Yoga included too.

I found the novice training plan to be just too hard though! I got into about the fourth week and was struggling to keep up.

The other negative I found was that I still had to use TrainerRoad in order to do the drill workouts, as these weren't included in the Sufferfest workouts. However, they have since added the Primers and Cadence Builds.

renevat

Felt the same about Sufferfest but found 'Success Cycling'. British guy, good vids, download or direct DVD purchase, lots of options and would say it's equally as good/painful/sweaty as SF.

markp80

I'm a long-time TrainerRoad user, and like a few other posters I used to enjoy the link with the videos. I bought quite a few but only used them every once in a while as a change, as I tend to follow the TR plans. I used to enjoy the tour of sufferlandria when it linked to TR as well.
I know the SF app now has plans, but tbh, I don't always want a video accompaniment, usually I like to watch something on the TV while TR is running on the laptop. Plus I do like the range of plans TR offers.
It's a shame really as I too would have bought more videos if they'd been available and still had a TR link.
I'll keep an eye on it but I don't have any plans to change to the SF app option, I'll stick with what I'm using now.

Cheers
MarkP