Hammer series

2

Comments

  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    The 2nd round of this is scheduled for Switzerland (18-20 August) in the UCI calendar, and round 3 will be in South Africa. (13-15 October)

    So, it isn't going to take long before they are out of cycling's heartland and breaking new ground.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Tend to agree.

    Better developments would be fining riders who won't be interviewed on the finish line except for exceptional circumstances and a relaxation on the distances allowed.
    _
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    Remember, Sky brought money into the sport and see where that got us!
    Yeah, it was an amateur sport until Sky turned up. :roll:

    I guess you've never heard of Bernard Tapie.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    ach, give it a go for a couple of years and see what people think

    personally, I'm not going to dismiss it before seeing how it works
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    ach, give it a go for a couple of years and see what people think

    personally, I'm not going to dismiss it before seeing how it works

    Pft, bore off adult.

    :wink:
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    iainf72 wrote:
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    ach, give it a go for a couple of years and see what people think

    personally, I'm not going to dismiss it before seeing how it works

    Pft, bore off adult.

    :wink:



    :(:(:mrgreen:
  • Rodrego Hernandez
    Rodrego Hernandez Posts: 1,436
    Cycling is a marketing tool used by companies. There is always talk of a teams exposure being worth X amount.

    Will be soon be charged to watch a mobile bill board? Or a poster on the side of a building?
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    ach, give it a go for a couple of years and see what people think

    personally, I'm not going to dismiss it before seeing how it works

    Tend to agree - I enjoy watching track and this isn't that dissimilar (2 points races and a pursuit), I'll give it a go.

    Have to agree with cycling podcast, it can't be worse than some of the middle east races.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    ach, give it a go for a couple of years and see what people think

    personally, I'm not going to dismiss it before seeing how it works

    This.
    Not that I can be arsed to watch mind. :P
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    iainf72 wrote:
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    ach, give it a go for a couple of years and see what people think

    personally, I'm not going to dismiss it before seeing how it works

    Pft, bore off adult.

    :wink:
    How can knee-jerk reactions on social media ever be wrong

    8PCKTVu.png
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Have to say, I tend to feel the same as Blazing.

    For me, the parcours dominates everything in cycling. It shapes the race, gives the structure in which the riders can show their stuff (or not), and is the singular biggest sell cycling has; the scenery.

    If I wanted sandbox tactical racing on recognisable circuits, I would (and do) watch motor racing. It's pretty niche to be into the actual athletes.

    I mean, when the organiser on the podcast was banging on about Cancellara's heart rate, cadence, and power numbers being on show, like it was the best thing ever, I was snoozing, and Cancellara's attack was one of the single most reliably exciting things to watch in cycling, period. Seriously, who gives a sh!t? I can see his cadence, and I reckon, y'know, the power numbers won't be small. Big deal.

    The only number that a lot of people will be able to relate to, is speed. Just show that in kph / mph and it will give most people watching a better idea of what the rider is doing than power or cadence. HR is utterly pointless for viewers as individuals can vary massively.
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    I don't have any real objections to this. It's different, might interest some new fans, and if it doesn't threaten 'established' races then why not see how it goes? I'm not sure it'll be my cup of tea, but then I dismissed MTB as a gimmick that would die out :lol:
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    YorkshireRaw wrote:

    The only number that a lot of people will be able to relate to, is speed.
    I realise it's not your point, but I like gradient and wind vector stats
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    RichN95 wrote:
    YorkshireRaw wrote:

    The only number that a lot of people will be able to relate to, is speed.
    I realise it's not your point, but I like gradient and wind vector stats

    Good point - again they're something the lay person can relate to somewhat, so fair enough.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    YorkshireRaw wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    YorkshireRaw wrote:

    The only number that a lot of people will be able to relate to, is speed.
    I realise it's not your point, but I like gradient and wind vector stats

    Good point - again they're something the lay person can relate to somewhat, so fair enough.
    Ammunition for the armchair power estimation experts though.

    I assume if they showed all the riders' power numbers by telemetry Twitter would go mental on the big climbs :)
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    I think I'd quite enjoy the novelty of seeing the stats. But I'm a stats geek.

    I will watch, but I'm not sure I'll be convinced.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • markwb79
    markwb79 Posts: 937
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    Numbers do nowt for me


    But isn't that the idea?

    Get new people watching the sport. We are all going to watch it regardless.

    We need new people watching. I think there is something to interest people when they shout about HR. Its something that new people can relate to.
    Scott Addict 2011
    Giant TCR 2012
  • markwb79
    markwb79 Posts: 937
    RichN95 wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:

    I believe that cycling will have a financial crash sometime in the next generation, As the saying goes, if we want things to stay the same something has to change


    Why? Cycling (aside from training / technological improvements) is essentially the same as it was 100 years ago.
    Overheads go up. Wages rise ahead of inflation. Areas become more reluctant to host events as the benefit reduces. TV figures go down.
    And then the sponsors - a lot of the world tour teams are propped up on goodwill of individuals or nation states rather than as a credible long term marketing strategy. That won't continue - Tinkov gone, the Quick Step guys leaving. There's probably only about three teams with proper blue chip commercial sponsors - and Sky will be gone in 2020 (will they be replaced?)

    Agreed, been saying this for a long time. Far too many 'sugar daddies', Sky is also one of them.

    This is where Tinkov was always right, it needs to become marketable. Tough I agree when its hard to get people to pay to watch the sport.

    But it needs to change, and I think its pretty good that someone is at least trying. Everyone is going to have an opinion if it will work or not. Time will tell after 2 or 3 years.
    Scott Addict 2011
    Giant TCR 2012
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Markwb79 wrote:
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    Numbers do nowt for me


    But isn't that the idea?

    Get new people watching the sport. We are all going to watch it regardless.

    We need new people watching. I think there is something to interest people when they shout about HR. Its something that new people can relate to.

    *selfish hat on* I don't want those people watching cycling.

    Also, surely the novelty wears off fairly quickly?

    See one big attack by a big guy and go *big numbers*, and then what?
    _
  • markwb79
    markwb79 Posts: 937
    RichN95 wrote:
    YorkshireRaw wrote:

    The only number that a lot of people will be able to relate to, is speed.
    I realise it's not your point, but I like gradient and wind vector stats

    Nah, Heart rate as well.

    People at the work cycling club (all completely new to cycling) are always talking about how high their HR went. I think it will be cool if they can relate that to the pro's.
    Scott Addict 2011
    Giant TCR 2012
  • markwb79
    markwb79 Posts: 937
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Markwb79 wrote:
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    Numbers do nowt for me


    But isn't that the idea?

    Get new people watching the sport. We are all going to watch it regardless.

    We need new people watching. I think there is something to interest people when they shout about HR. Its something that new people can relate to.

    *selfish hat on* I don't want those people watching cycling.

    Also, surely the novelty wears off fairly quickly?

    See one big attack by a big guy and go *big numbers*, and then what?


    haha, me too. I am fine as it is. But thats not sustainable unfortunately.

    Novelty wears off, hopefully after they have told their friends, who now watch cycling. Whilst they get further hooked like you and I.
    Scott Addict 2011
    Giant TCR 2012
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,547
    Are fora for other sports, and I assume they exist, full of threads navel gazing about how they can make their sport more marketable? Or is it unique to cycling?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    andyp wrote:
    Are fora for other sports, and I assume they exist, full of threads navel gazing about how they can make their sport more marketable? Or is it unique to cycling?
    Many have already done it. Cricket had Twenty20, Athletics the Golden League, Rugby League moved to summer, Darts got a big makeover, Snooker is desperate for something, even Golf are looking.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,547
    RichN95 wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    Are fora for other sports, and I assume they exist, full of threads navel gazing about how they can make their sport more marketable? Or is it unique to cycling?
    Many have already done it. Cricket had Twenty20, Athletics the Golden League, Rugby League moved to summer, Darts got a big makeover, Snooker is desperate for something, even Golf are looking.

    Fair point. How many of those have been successful, where success is defined by an increase in spectators and revenue? I'm guessing Twenty20, but that's probably it, no?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    andyp wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    Are fora for other sports, and I assume they exist, full of threads navel gazing about how they can make their sport more marketable? Or is it unique to cycling?
    Many have already done it. Cricket had Twenty20, Athletics the Golden League, Rugby League moved to summer, Darts got a big makeover, Snooker is desperate for something, even Golf are looking.

    Fair point. How many of those have been successful, where success is defined by an increase in spectators and revenue? I'm guessing Twenty20, but that's probably it, no?
    I'd say they all been reasonably successful - darts is really booming. The question is what would have happened if they hadn't done them.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    Yeah, darts has inexplicably got massive. More as a drinking event at the venue though than tv - I know a lot of people who've been to see it for a night out.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    I don't understand the 'anything that gets more people watching / investing in the sport has to be good' argument. If you play around with a sport too much you end up with something that is no longer that sport e.g. you take the format of rugby but some people want players to become professional so they set up a new organisation but then they reduce team sizes, restrict the amount of times a team can get tackled before giving away possession, remove other key aspects of the game and hey presto you end up with a completely new sport.

    Also, look at a virtually empty cricket ground in the sub-continent during a test match that would have previously been teeming with vocal, knowledgable spectators who loved the game but now are only interested in the quick fix form. Do we want cycling to go down that route?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Pross wrote:
    I don't understand the 'anything that gets more people watching / investing in the sport has to be good' argument.

    Boom.
    _
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    Pross wrote:
    I don't understand the 'anything that gets more people watching / investing in the sport has to be good' argument. If you play around with a sport too much you end up with something that is no longer that sport e.g. you take the format of rugby but some people want players to become professional so they set up a new organisation but then they reduce team sizes, restrict the amount of times a team can get tackled before giving away possession, remove other key aspects of the game and hey presto you end up with a completely new sport.

    Also, look at a virtually empty cricket ground in the sub-continent during a test match that would have previously been teeming with vocal, knowledgable spectators who loved the game but now are only interested in the quick fix form. Do we want cycling to go down that route?

    First point - it's not really that different as it's basically a points race from the track on the road plus a pursuit, hardly a revolutionary concept, surely. Still bike racing.

    Second point - are you sure that's the right way round? Thought 20:20 was invented to combat dwindling fans not the cause of the dwindling fans.

    I agree that new things aren't necessarily good but it's worth seeing if it is any good surely... As has been pointed out elsewhere it's got to be more interesting than some of the desert races with the formulaic 5 hours of doomed breakaway and sprint finish.

    I'm going to hold out of judgement till it's been run once or twice...
  • smithy21
    smithy21 Posts: 2,204
    It's got to be better than the Tour of Romandie.

    Worth a shot in my view. What's the worst that can happen? If it doesn't work, just bin it.

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