Bike Comfort Struggles

jfrankland1991

Hi,

I have been struggling with saddle problems over the last few months and I would like to get some advice if anyone would like to share theirs.

I bought a new bike around a year ago and got a basic fit at my LBS where I purchased the bike. I was very happy with my new steed and felt immediately comfortable on it everywhere apart from the saddle. Following a little tinkering with the position of the saddle I managed to get it perfect for one ride, 80 miles of pure bliss. Perfect I thought. Prior to going away on holiday I sent my bike back to the LBS for a 6 weekly check, tighten gear cables and the like. However, after then I have not been able to get my saddle to be comfortable again.

The pain got so bad that I was feeling pain after just a couple of miles of riding, I have tried numerous saddles from Specialized, Fizik, Prologo, Giant and Selle Italia, none of which improving the situation significantly. I have never had saddle problems before, luckily having no problem riding around with the saddle that my previous bikes came with. However, going back to my old bike I have the same problem.

After a couple of months off my bike I contacted a LBS run by former pro rider Adrian Timmis (Cadence Sport). No doubt some people on here have experienced his bike fit and after reading numerous reviews it's evident he knows what he's talking about to say the least. He said if you have tried more than three saddles then it is unlikely to be that the saddle is the problem, rather the rest of the bike fit being the problem - I took my bike into his shop to have a quick chat, he said there wasn't one thing that was wrong, rather a number of things, mainly to do with the front end of the bike which was too low.

Therefore, I was wondering if people have been in a similar situation to myself and wondered if there was any hints or tips people could share to improve my situation?

I have flipped the stem over to raise my handlebars but as yet haven't had chance to try this out, I am contemplating a bike fit with Adrian at Cadence Sport, I wouldn't usually part with £185 for a bike fit but given the very good reviews he gets and also not knowing where to turn to get myself back on my bike pain free it seems that is the route I will go down. Has anyone had a bike fit with Adrian?

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

James Frankland

daniel_b

Hi James,

that's a shame, sounds like you probably needed a bike with a more 'sportive orientated' and higher front end.

What was your old bike, and what is your new bike (As well as frame sizes) - can you compare them side by side?

Do you have a comparatively long inseam versus short torso, or do you think it might be a flexibility issue?

Flipping the stem is a valid way of making a bike fit you, though some people will sniff at it, I have to do exactly that to make my Scott comfortable, though I live in hope of continued riding on the turbo bike, and hammering the drops on my other bikes, of improving my flexibility and getting my body used to that lower position.

Other options you can consider, if you are too stretched out, is an inline seatpost - I went to that initially, but have now developed enough flexibility that I can go back to a setback post.

jfrankland1991

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. The bike in question is designed as an endurance bike as was my previous bike but I now have problems on both as I used my old bike as a winter bike.

Old Bike - Giant Defy 1
New Bike - Orro Gold

My new bike is lower, unfortunately I cannot remember frame sizes off the top of my head.

I am tall, 6 foot 2 but don't have a large discrepancy between torso and leg length, I am at a mid range flexibility so I don't think that is the issue. However, I do suffer from lower back problems from time to time.

I have been suggested an inline seatpost by Adrian Timmis at Cadence Sport as he said my saddle was way too far back (mainly due to the seatpost) and said I am likely to be pushing back on the saddle rather than sitting on it, hence causing sit bone pain which I am experiencing.

daniel_b

Too much stretch can definitely cause issues - another obvious choice to me, would be to buy a shorter stem - how long is your current one?
I expect at 6ft 2, you probably have a Large or XL frame, and it is likely it might have a 110 or 120mm stem fitted, perhaps pick up an 80 or 90 off of ebay, and see what difference it makes, then consider an inline seat post if still no improvement.

You can buy stems for next to nothing online, and then always get something nicer when you are sure what length you need.
On my turbo bike, which is too big for me, I ride it with a 60mm stem, though could go to 70mm now realistically.
On my bikes that fit me properly, I run 90mm stems.

Only potential concern with an inline seatpost is that it 'might push you too far forward, and not in the most optimal pedalling position to get power down.

I too used to have chronic back pain, but with seeing right people, and exercise I am mostly over that, or have the tools to deal with it and minimise it should the need arise - I had a herniated disc too!
Fortunately, riding the bike was mostly something my body always permitted me to do.

Just looked up your bike - not one I had heard of, but looks very nice

jgsi

Get yourself that appointment.
Self / internet diagnoses will only confuse you further.

First.Aspect

Sit bone pain, you say?

Doesn't sound like back pain to me.

If you've irritated or bruised that region, then you might well miss a "correct" saddle position that would be otherwise perfectly fine. Take a bit of time off the bike perhaps? Another thought - are your cycling shorts any good? Is the pad actually where you need it to be?

You have to be really careful to avoid red herrings when it comes to this sort of stuff.....

wongataa

jfrankland1991 wrote:

Has anyone had a bike fit with Adrian?

I have. It made things better and was a lot quicker than tinkering with stuff myself.

yiannism

I have also a disc hernia so i was very hesitant to buy a road bike, but i decided to gave a try. Ive put both spacers below the stem and installed the stem up. That was good enough for my back, and after 3000+km on my bike i never had an issues with that.

Now as far as about the sit i had pains on my bud and on my prostate. What i did it was to change my saddle to wider one and install it a few degrees down. With some chamoise creme problem solved.

styxd

Sounds like somethings wrong; you sit on your sit bones when sat at your desk, not when sat on your push bike.

letap73

Timmis is very good - unpretentious too. Its worth going for a fit with him

kingrollo

This sounds depressingly familiar.

What are your hamstrings like for flexibility ? - you might want to research high hamstring tendinopathy.

I went through a very similar scenario to you. been riding for years - then suddenly out of nowhere came this raging pain in the arse. I spent 18 Mths being treated for back pain - despite my protests that i really didn't think my back was the issue.

I had a bike fit with Adrian Timmis - this didn't cure it (although years later - thumbs up for the fit and shoe inserts)

Basically the problem was my ass - My hamstrings had gotten that tight - that were tearing at the insertion point where they join the pelvis.

A brooks leather saddle helped - due to the unique way it gives under pressure - I always use chamois cream - as this prevents friction.

But basically the real key is cross frictional massage, and dry needling of the hamstrings - then some eccentric loading exercises.


Assuming the problem is HHT - as there are a lot nerves down there and these problems are very easily misdiagnosed. IME a lot of physio aren't familiar with this injury and will start you on a core strength programme - that won't heal the hamstrings though.

Get in touch if you want more info ...

jfrankland1991

Daniel B wrote:

Too much stretch can definitely cause issues - another obvious choice to me, would be to buy a shorter stem - how long is your current one?
I expect at 6ft 2, you probably have a Large or XL frame, and it is likely it might have a 110 or 120mm stem fitted, perhaps pick up an 80 or 90 off of ebay, and see what difference it makes, then consider an inline seat post if still no improvement.

Only potential concern with an inline seatpost is that it 'might push you too far forward, and not in the most optimal pedalling position to get power down.

Thanks for the advice, I think from memory it is a 110mm stem so definitely a shorter stem could be an option. I have been recommended an inline seatpost but like you say I dont want to go too far forward. However, I am prepared to lose a little bit of power for comfort. Obviously I would like optimum power and comfort but I would prefer comfort with a little bit of loss in power.

jfrankland1991

First Aspect wrote:

Sit bone pain, you say?

Doesn't sound like back pain to me.

If you've irritated or bruised that region, then you might well miss a "correct" saddle position that would be otherwise perfectly fine. Take a bit of time off the bike perhaps? Another thought - are your cycling shorts any good? Is the pad actually where you need it to be?

You have to be really careful to avoid red herrings when it comes to this sort of stuff.....

I have suffered from sit bone pain due to my saddle problems but I have also had lower back pain through cycling and playing cricket. I am not sure if this is connected or not.

I have taken three months off my bike to allow time for recovery but having tried out a ride last Saturday I could only last a couple of miles before the pain came back again. Maybe this is not enough time to be off the bike for but I do have good quality Castelli bib shorts which arent too old so wear or quality is not a problem in my opinion.

jfrankland1991

styxd wrote:

Sounds like somethings wrong; you sit on your sit bones when sat at your desk, not when sat on your push bike.

I was of the understanding that your sit bones should take the weight of your body whilst cycling to prevent any pain in other areas down there or am I wrong?

thehighroad

Unless you are sat bolt upright the pressure is going to be spread between your sit bones and your perineum. The more aggressive the position the more you put towards the front (perineum), the more relaxed towards the sit bones.

One of or a combination of saddle tilt, height and for and aft adjustment will likely relieve the pressure. My issue was too much pressure on my perineum due to poor hamstring flexibility meaning I couldn't get far enough back on the saddle. An inline post and saddle right forward with a 2 degree tilt has relieved this for me. It took a bikefit with saddle pressure mapping to put my finger on the issue though. I spent many rides adjusting myself and got closer but a couple of hours with a bike fitter sorted it out. Not the cheapest way of doing it but by far the most efficient.

svetty

If I ride a lot my a**e gets bruised and sore - but after a few miles my brain ignores this and I'm fine. if I ride too little my a**e becomes unaccustomed to riding and gets bruised and sore. This improves once it gets used to riding again.

Mt advice would be that the OP gets the fit by Adriam T as suggested - that way you can be sure that you've optimised the bike side of things. Any ongoing pain is likely rider associated and you can see the doc/physio to get that fixed.

milemuncher1

The majority of the answer lies in #5, I found a combination of bib pads and saddle padding helped with what was left. Weirdly, one of the best 'endurance' saddles I've bought, came from Lidl. They have a few on sale at the moment. There is an option that works well on a road bike. I've got buns of steel, which have taken years of slogging over nasty road surfaces to develop, but I'd always advise someone relative New to the game, to go for a firm(ish) gel saddle, and get the Chamois pad right in the shorts / bibs.

thehighroad

Milemuncher1 wrote:

The majority of the answer lies in #5, I found a combination of bib pads and saddle padding helped with what was left. Weirdly, one of the best 'endurance' saddles I've bought, came from Lidl. They have a few on sale at the moment. There is an option that works well on a road bike. I've got buns of steel, which have taken years of slogging over nasty road surfaces to develop, but I'd always advise someone relative New to the game, to go for a firm(ish) gel saddle, and get the Chamois pad right in the shorts / bibs.

Ignore all of the above.

milemuncher1

thehighroad wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

The majority of the answer lies in #5, I found a combination of bib pads and saddle padding helped with what was left. Weirdly, one of the best 'endurance' saddles I've bought, came from Lidl. They have a few on sale at the moment. There is an option that works well on a road bike. I've got buns of steel, which have taken years of slogging over nasty road surfaces to develop, but I'd always advise someone relative New to the game, to go for a firm(ish) gel saddle, and get the Chamois pad right in the shorts / bibs.

Ignore all of the above.

Why would he want to do that poppet? What I typed was actually useful information, garnered from over 30 years, of long distance road riding. What you typed was a pile of sh1t.

bbrap

Milemuncher1 wrote:

thehighroad wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

The majority of the answer lies in #5, I found a combination of bib pads and saddle padding helped with what was left. Weirdly, one of the best 'endurance' saddles I've bought, came from Lidl. They have a few on sale at the moment. There is an option that works well on a road bike. I've got buns of steel, which have taken years of slogging over nasty road surfaces to develop, but I'd always advise someone relative New to the game, to go for a firm(ish) gel saddle, and get the Chamois pad right in the shorts / bibs.

Ignore all of the above.

Why would he want to do that poppet? What I typed was actually useful information, garnered from over 30 years, of long distance road riding. What you typed was a pile of sh1t.

The advice you gave about chamois pads is perfectly OK. However the advice regarding gel saddles for endurance events is not. The gel will compress after getting warm and having you sitting on it for extended periods which allows the soft tissues to get rubbed and chafed. Gel saddles are great for infrequent riders who want to pootle down the shops but for long events and rides over an hour or so you want a saddle that stays the same shape as it started out. Why do you think the saddle of choice for audax and long distance are Brooks leather saddles with no padding or gel whatsoever.

milemuncher1

bbrap wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

thehighroad wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

The majority of the answer lies in #5, I found a combination of bib pads and saddle padding helped with what was left. Weirdly, one of the best 'endurance' saddles I've bought, came from Lidl. They have a few on sale at the moment. There is an option that works well on a road bike. I've got buns of steel, which have taken years of slogging over nasty road surfaces to develop, but I'd always advise someone relative New to the game, to go for a firm(ish) gel saddle, and get the Chamois pad right in the shorts / bibs.

Ignore all of the above.

Why would he want to do that poppet? What I typed was actually useful information, garnered from over 30 years, of long distance road riding. What you typed was a pile of sh1t.

The advice you gave about chamois pads is perfectly OK. However the advice regarding gel saddles for endurance events is not. The gel will compress after getting warm and having you sitting on it for extended periods which allows the soft tissues to get rubbed and chafed. Gel saddles are great for infrequent riders who want to pootle down the shops but for long events and rides over an hour or so you want a saddle that stays the same shape as it started out. Why do you think the saddle of choice for audax and long distance are Brooks leather saddles with no padding or gel whatsoever.

You're wrong.

bbrap

Milemuncher1 wrote:

bbrap wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

thehighroad wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

The majority of the answer lies in #5, I found a combination of bib pads and saddle padding helped with what was left. Weirdly, one of the best 'endurance' saddles I've bought, came from Lidl. They have a few on sale at the moment. There is an option that works well on a road bike. I've got buns of steel, which have taken years of slogging over nasty road surfaces to develop, but I'd always advise someone relative New to the game, to go for a firm(ish) gel saddle, and get the Chamois pad right in the shorts / bibs.

Ignore all of the above.

Why would he want to do that poppet? What I typed was actually useful information, garnered from over 30 years, of long distance road riding. What you typed was a pile of sh1t.

The advice you gave about chamois pads is perfectly OK. However the advice regarding gel saddles for endurance events is not. The gel will compress after getting warm and having you sitting on it for extended periods which allows the soft tissues to get rubbed and chafed. Gel saddles are great for infrequent riders who want to pootle down the shops but for long events and rides over an hour or so you want a saddle that stays the same shape as it started out. Why do you think the saddle of choice for audax and long distance are Brooks leather saddles with no padding or gel whatsoever.

You're wrong.

No you're wrong. But hey, you believe what you want.

INPTT

It might not be in the saddle, but more in the padding of the kit you're wearing.

thehighroad

Milemuncher1 wrote:

thehighroad wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

The majority of the answer lies in #5, I found a combination of bib pads and saddle padding helped with what was left. Weirdly, one of the best 'endurance' saddles I've bought, came from Lidl. They have a few on sale at the moment. There is an option that works well on a road bike. I've got buns of steel, which have taken years of slogging over nasty road surfaces to develop, but I'd always advise someone relative New to the game, to go for a firm(ish) gel saddle, and get the Chamois pad right in the shorts / bibs.

Ignore all of the above.

Why would he want to do that poppet? What I typed was actually useful information, garnered from over 30 years, of long distance road riding. What you typed was a pile of sh1t.

ok.

thebikerdude93

Just wanted to thank danile b for the "Too much stretch can definitely cause issues" advise. Going to have to get a new stem.. think caused also sorts of issues for me.

milemuncher1

bbrap wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

bbrap wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

thehighroad wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

The majority of the answer lies in #5, I found a combination of bib pads and saddle padding helped with what was left. Weirdly, one of the best 'endurance' saddles I've bought, came from Lidl. They have a few on sale at the moment. There is an option that works well on a road bike. I've got buns of steel, which have taken years of slogging over nasty road surfaces to develop, but I'd always advise someone relative New to the game, to go for a firm(ish) gel saddle, and get the Chamois pad right in the shorts / bibs.

Ignore all of the above.

Why would he want to do that poppet? What I typed was actually useful information, garnered from over 30 years, of long distance road riding. What you typed was a pile of sh1t.

The advice you gave about chamois pads is perfectly OK. However the advice regarding gel saddles for endurance events is not. The gel will compress after getting warm and having you sitting on it for extended periods which allows the soft tissues to get rubbed and chafed. Gel saddles are great for infrequent riders who want to pootle down the shops but for long events and rides over an hour or so you want a saddle that stays the same shape as it started out. Why do you think the saddle of choice for audax and long distance are Brooks leather saddles with no padding or gel whatsoever.

You're wrong.

No you're wrong. But hey, you believe what you want.

How about I believe what hundreds of thousands of miles and decades of road riding experience tell me is correct?

milemuncher1

bbrap wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

thehighroad wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

The majority of the answer lies in #5, I found a combination of bib pads and saddle padding helped with what was left. Weirdly, one of the best 'endurance' saddles I've bought, came from Lidl. They have a few on sale at the moment. There is an option that works well on a road bike. I've got buns of steel, which have taken years of slogging over nasty road surfaces to develop, but I'd always advise someone relative New to the game, to go for a firm(ish) gel saddle, and get the Chamois pad right in the shorts / bibs.

Ignore all of the above.

Why would he want to do that poppet? What I typed was actually useful information, garnered from over 30 years, of long distance road riding. What you typed was a pile of sh1t.

The advice you gave about chamois pads is perfectly OK. However the advice regarding gel saddles for endurance events is not. The gel will compress after getting warm and having you sitting on it for extended periods which allows the soft tissues to get rubbed and chafed. Gel saddles are great for infrequent riders who want to pootle down the shops but for long events and rides over an hour or so you want a saddle that stays the same shape as it started out. Why do you think the saddle of choice for audax and long distance are Brooks leather saddles with no padding or gel whatsoever.

If you learn how to ride properly for endurance distances, the gel saddle will remain exactly the same shape and profile, for the duration, this is where experience counts. Learn how to distribute your weight, and support it in such a way, that you are using the saddle mostly as a secondary support, not as something that takes the majority of your weight, for the majority of the time. A gel saddle, used correctly, is a god send, on a long distance / duration ride.The majority of 'Audaxers' I've encountered, tend to use Brooks saddles purely because they are cliquey sheep, who do it, but really don't know why, and have never explained why they do it satisfactorily to me. Sure they seem to believe what they are saying, but a lot of them seem to do it, purely because it's 'the done thing' innit. I've tried Brooks saddles, I've found them no better, but much more expensive, than the gel saddles I've been using for decades. Brooks saddles look nice, and they are a nice thing to have, just not for the wrongly held beliefs of many of the sheep of the cycling world, I've encountered.

bondurant

They probably use them as these are the kind of saddles that they find most comfortable on long rides I'd have thought, just as you use gel saddles for the same reason. I doubt that there's a definitive right answer.

Minimally padded saddle and the right bib shorts for me, after much experimentation with both.

daniel_b

thebikerdude93 wrote:

Just wanted to thank danile b for the "Too much stretch can definitely cause issues" advise. Going to have to get a new stem.. think caused also sorts of issues for me.

Hey tbd, glad to hear it, and I hope it sorts your issue for you - plese do update with how you get on, as it might be helpful for others who search in the future and have similar issues.

I struggled for over a year with a too big bike and a too long stem :oops:

For the record, since my initial post at the start of this thread, months of brutalising my body on the turbo for 7 hours a week, and spending more and more time in the drops, now means I can ride my Scott with the stem in the correct orientation - even for 50 miles, so there is proof that ones body can be persuaded to adjust if you put the hours in - and for that kind of thing the turbo is the perfect place imho.

step83

thebikerdude93 wrote:

Just wanted to thank danile b for the "Too much stretch can definitely cause issues" advise. Going to have to get a new stem.. think caused also sorts of issues for me.

Just remember the steering will feel a little twitchy to start takes all of a few minutes for your brain to adjust to the change.

ihazon303

The width of the saddle can also make a big difference, if it's too narrow your sit bones will not like it. And how flat/curved the saddle is might also make a difference, depending on your riding position and hip flexibility. That would be looked at during a proper bike fit, so you may get an epiphany from trying a wider saddle. I had a really good fit that included measurement of my sit bones and my flexibility, and after trying a flatter, wider saddle was amazed how much more comfortable it was.