Stages - reliability vs 4iiii or Pioneer

JesseD

meanredspider wrote:

I use my Stages on a load of different Garmin mounting configurations including out front mounts from various suppliers and on aero bars - never once had a drop out.

Good to know, must be an issue with certain ones then?

If I was the OP I would be looking at the Pinoeer if I could get hold of one. The cranks based power meters are great but not so much if you swap between bikes I suppose, more of a ball ache to swap the chainset over I suspect instead of just the crank arm.

Guernsey Donkey

I had two Stages power meters, a Dura Ace and an Ultegra. Both were v2. Both units were check for firmware updates before each ride.

The DA was replaced within a week for power/cadence dropouts. The replacement lasted 6 months then started eating batteries. They would last 48hrs max whether the bike was ridden or not. I even tried taking the arm off the bike and bringing it into the house to keep it warm but still the same result. That has now gone back to the retailer and been refunded.

The Ultegra on the other hand has been absolutely perfect. No dropouts, battery problems or any other issues. Since the crankarm itself is irrelevant to the issues I can only assume that this is a quality control issue in the factory.

meanredspider

JesseD wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I use my Stages on a load of different Garmin mounting configurations including out front mounts from various suppliers and on aero bars - never once had a drop out.

Good to know, must be an issue with certain ones then?

If I was the OP I would be looking at the Pinoeer if I could get hold of one. The cranks based power meters are great but not so much if you swap between bikes I suppose, more of a ball ache to swap the chainset over I suspect instead of just the crank arm.

Yup - I ordered a P2M to start with but a combination of 4 week delivery time and issues between running a standard double on my Foil and a Compact on my Volagi meant that I cancelled the order and bought the Stages instead (which I've never regretted). I also toyed with Vectors but the faff of needing a fairly beefy (by bike standards) torque wrench which I couldn't have carried in plane hand baggage and their incompatibility with my FSA crank meant the overall solution was going to work out very expensive (around £1300 at the time I think).

Alex99

JesseD wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I use my Stages on a load of different Garmin mounting configurations including out front mounts from various suppliers and on aero bars - never once had a drop out.

Good to know, must be an issue with certain ones then?

If I was the OP I would be looking at the Pinoeer if I could get hold of one. The cranks based power meters are great but not so much if you swap between bikes I suppose, more of a ball ache to swap the chainset over I suspect instead of just the crank arm.

I had dropouts with my v1 unit, which was swapped for a v2 by Saddleback. No dropout issues with either v2 units using out front mount or stem mount.

redvision

I have had the 4iiii for about a month now (to replace the p1 pedals which were bl00dy awful). So far so good. Seem pretty accurate (the first week of rides were on a bike with an srm and the 4iiii figures were incredibly close). Not had one drop out, battery life seems excellent.

Only downside is being a single side pm but they do offer the dual sided option now.

JesseD

Alex99 wrote:

JesseD wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I use my Stages on a load of different Garmin mounting configurations including out front mounts from various suppliers and on aero bars - never once had a drop out.

Good to know, must be an issue with certain ones then?

If I was the OP I would be looking at the Pinoeer if I could get hold of one. The cranks based power meters are great but not so much if you swap between bikes I suppose, more of a ball ache to swap the chainset over I suspect instead of just the crank arm.

I had dropouts with my v1 unit, which was swapped for a v2 by Saddleback. No dropout issues with either v2 units using out front mount or stem mount.

It must be down to individual units, as it was happening again on mine last night during hill reps, I'd lose power and cadence or sometimes one or the other independently, mine is a V2 unit as well.

The bike lives in the garage which is generally the same temp as outside so cant be that, must just be a dud one.

Grill

JesseD wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I use my Stages on a load of different Garmin mounting configurations including out front mounts from various suppliers and on aero bars - never once had a drop out.

Good to know, must be an issue with certain ones then?

If I was the OP I would be looking at the Pinoeer if I could get hold of one. The cranks based power meters are great but not so much if you swap between bikes I suppose, more of a ball ache to swap the chainset over I suspect instead of just the crank arm.

It takes all of 10 seconds longer to swap a full chainset as compared to a crank arm.

meanredspider

Grill wrote:

JesseD wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I use my Stages on a load of different Garmin mounting configurations including out front mounts from various suppliers and on aero bars - never once had a drop out.

Good to know, must be an issue with certain ones then?

If I was the OP I would be looking at the Pinoeer if I could get hold of one. The cranks based power meters are great but not so much if you swap between bikes I suppose, more of a ball ache to swap the chainset over I suspect instead of just the crank arm.

It takes all of 10 seconds longer to swap a full chainset as compared to a crank arm.

Assuming you don't need to change the chain rings...

Grill

meanredspider wrote:

Grill wrote:

JesseD wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I use my Stages on a load of different Garmin mounting configurations including out front mounts from various suppliers and on aero bars - never once had a drop out.

Good to know, must be an issue with certain ones then?

If I was the OP I would be looking at the Pinoeer if I could get hold of one. The cranks based power meters are great but not so much if you swap between bikes I suppose, more of a ball ache to swap the chainset over I suspect instead of just the crank arm.

It takes all of 10 seconds longer to swap a full chainset as compared to a crank arm.

Assuming you don't need to change the chain rings...

Don't you live in the Netherlands?

With 11spd, long cage rear mechs, and 52/36 there is really no need to change rings. Worst case you do it once a year when you head off to somewhere that's steep enough to need a 34x32 (and even then it's not really necessary as you can actually run a 52/34 combo).

meanredspider

Grill wrote:

Don't you live in the Netherlands?

With 11spd, long cage rear mechs, and 52/36 there is really no need to change rings. Worst case you do it once a year when you head off to somewhere that's steep enough to need a 34x32 (and even then it's not really necessary as you can actually run a 52/34 combo).

Not for 18 months. I currently live between Cambridge, the Highlands and Cotswolds.

On the Foil I run 53/39 with a 12-23 cassette, on the Volagi I run a 50/33 with 11-28

I don't but I might have the Renegade set up as a CX running one of the close-ratio chainsets.

In either the Cotswolds or Highlands I might be doing a flat TT on Tues and some steep climbing on Wed.

Grill

So your biggest gear on the Volgi is larger than that of your Foil? You may as well run a compact with 11-28 or 52/36 with an 11-30. Even the pros use 11-28 cassettes on their TT bikes these days (and in Tony Martin's case an 11-32). If anything your want of such gearing is the exception, not the rule.

meanredspider

Yup - I like to have close gear spacing on my "flat" bike (Foil) - it makes sense to me because about the only real external variable is the wind. I never run out of gears. The Volagi has the broadest range of gears because it the bike I do hills on and I go a lot slower and a lot faster on it than the Foil so it's geared to match. There are times when I'd like more gears - especially on the Cotswold escarpment - both up and down.

Both are 10-sp. 11-sp obviously gives you a little bit more flexibility from the same cassette.

imafatman

Well my 4iiii turned up. Differences between the stages: Smaller box, No stickers.

Otherwise they are basically identical in use and operation.

Went out for a ride yesterday and the power seemed right and fortunately hasn't failed yet..... Will be doing as much mileage as I can in the next 14 days and fingers crossed won't be sent back.

Man Of Lard

To be fair my broken 4iiii was a very early model - and it failed directly after a firmware upgrade (the inference from 4iiii in Canada was that somehow I had a pre-production model). It was also strictly speaking just out of warranty, but they're trying to do the right thing (and nobody else I know with one - 9 other units - has had any issues).

Would I buy 4iiii again, sure. The product is good, the service from 4iiii is swift & courteous. Their UK distributor is lacklustre.

slowbike

My Stages signal dropped out the other evening ...

I did have the Garmin in my jersey pocket though - I was testing Live Segments on my wife's 810 ... I didn't even know it wasn't recording as I couldn't see the garmin!
As soon as I swapped the Garmins back so mine was on the out-front I had the power data back.

I'm of the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" ilk - so I've not updated firmware and only had to replace the battery once - touchwood it will continue that way

JesseD

Grill wrote:

JesseD wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I use my Stages on a load of different Garmin mounting configurations including out front mounts from various suppliers and on aero bars - never once had a drop out.

Good to know, must be an issue with certain ones then?

If I was the OP I would be looking at the Pinoeer if I could get hold of one. The cranks based power meters are great but not so much if you swap between bikes I suppose, more of a ball ache to swap the chainset over I suspect instead of just the crank arm.

It takes all of 10 seconds longer to swap a full chainset as compared to a crank arm.

As both my bikes run Shimano, if I changed to a crank based power meter I would also need to change the BB's on both bikes which is added expense as well, plus (and I dont know why) I assumed that crank based PM would be complicated to change but thinking about it it must be as simple as swapping the chainset and then re-calibrating.

Grill

JesseD wrote:

Grill wrote:

JesseD wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I use my Stages on a load of different Garmin mounting configurations including out front mounts from various suppliers and on aero bars - never once had a drop out.

Good to know, must be an issue with certain ones then?

If I was the OP I would be looking at the Pinoeer if I could get hold of one. The cranks based power meters are great but not so much if you swap between bikes I suppose, more of a ball ache to swap the chainset over I suspect instead of just the crank arm.

It takes all of 10 seconds longer to swap a full chainset as compared to a crank arm.

As both my bikes run Shimano, if I changed to a crank based power meter I would also need to change the BB's on both bikes which is added expense as well, plus (and I dont know why) I assumed that crank based PM would be complicated to change but thinking about it it must be as simple as swapping the chainset and then re-calibrating.

No you wouldn't. Both Rotor 3d 24 and FSA Gossamer Power2Max work with stock HT2 BBs.

shredical1

I was in the same boat. Won a Stages power meter in a local training competition series and based on all the reading plus my own body's asymmetry between left and right (right glutes aren't as strong), opted to upgrade to the pioneer dual sided power meter kit for my existing ultegra crankset. The free computer promo they have going right now was additional impetus for making the call. Will likely ditch the garmin edge 1000 as I don't really care about mapping functions.

JesseD

NOt sure if the OP has bought a new power meter yet, but as an update about reliability my second replacement stages failed within 2 weeks, I was still getting drop outs of readings with the new unit, but I went through 2 batteries in 2 weeks.

My LBS has ordered me a 3rd one and if that fails I have discussed with them moving to a crank based PM and splitting the difference in cost. Was thinking of the new FSA Powerbox as the cost is around the same as the stages, it doesn't weigh that much more than the Ultegra crank and Stages PM I have at the moment and apparently its pretty accurate and actually works! Only downside is I will not have a full 6800 group-set but to be honest I am not that bothered about that.

Plus it will work with my existing BB

pippi_langsamer-2

I actually can't believe the cost of the new Powerbox modules :shock:

Dual sided, crank based power complete for ~£470?!!

It's about time the "others", woke-up and smelt the coffee regarding retail prices for PM's :idea:

thomasmorris

Pippi Langsamer wrote:

I actually can't believe the cost of the new Powerbox modules :shock:

Dual sided, crank based power complete for ~£470?!!

It's about time the "others", woke-up and smelt the coffee regarding retail prices for PM's :idea:

Do you mean the FSA PowerBox? They're not crank based but spider based, and therefore aren't true dual sided (but they do directly measure total power, unlike left only).

470 is cheap though! Seems odd pricing though as Powermeter 24 has the RRP as 558, from which they've reduced to 470. However all other sellers seems to have RRP as 629 with discounts down to around 550.

I'm not sure what Power2Max get out of providing these to FSA, as they just seem identical to P2Ms own model

Grill

P2M likely have a sweetheart OEM arrangement with FSA as they sell their cranks as well. Neither is losing out.

bluemoon17

Had my 4iiii single-sided for four months now. Haven't had a single drop out or reliability issue so far- there's been a couple of times where it has taken two or three attempts for it to connect to my phone for calibration, however it has always connected straight to my Garmin upon waking. Would highly recommend.

Man Of Lard

@Bluemoon - you can calibrate it on your Garmin you know... Phone is unnecessary (unless you prefer doing it that way)

bluemoon17

Man Of Lard wrote:

@Bluemoon - you can calibrate it on your Garmin you know... Phone is unnecessary (unless you prefer doing it that way)

Yep, I only calibrate it with my phone when I'm using it on the Turbo trainer with Zwift (and therefore not using my Garmin).

JesseD

New Stages delivered and on the bike, battery seems fine, dropouts still in existence!

Really frustrating!

I'm going to try mounting the Garmin on the stem and see if that makes any difference, although it shouldn't!

Even tried riding with Bluetooth on instead on ANT+ to see if that made any difference but alas it didn't!

Looks like this may be going back as well and I'll be going for a crank based PM

Permafrostar

I've purchased the latest gen Precision 4iii on Ultegra (175mm) crank in January 2017, it was fine at first but then started to intermittently show 0w. The cadence reading was reading fine so the signal was getting through to my Garmin 810. it got progressively worse over a few rides. I could not get it to calibrate through the Precision 4iii iPhone app. Tried everything, firmware updates, raised battery connections etc, but sent it back to Probike. After a few weeks they sent me another unit. That was OK for a few rides and then the same problems started occurring again until it completely gave up on reading power. Sent that back and now I'm wondering if I should get a replacement or a refund. I can't find much about these issues on the forums so if any one else has had issues I would really like to know before I throw the towel in on the Precision 4iii.

daniel_b

Vector 3 out now, DC is a fan it would seem, and prices have dropped substantially.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/08/hands-on-garmin-vector-3-power-meter.html