Fed up buying winter jackets

jerry3571

Hi, are there any winter layers which are very breathable? Seem to be buying Jackets which are Boil in the Bag types. I even got a second hand Goretex Pro shell and had the under arm vents open (big vents) and still had a wet base layer. I seem to do better wearing lots of layers which let the wind through a bit more, these materials seem to dry out with the easy passing of air. It's quite restricting wearing a lot of layers and a lot of washing. I think there needs to be a good exchange of air to the skin. It's like being on the turbo without a fan on, I still sweat in that dead air even though I am only wearing a jersey and shorts. With the fan on I'm a lot drier. It's not the breathability more new air which takes away the moisture. Any ideas, experiences. or insider knowledge?? Ta (Sure there has been many posts like this, so apologies) :roll:

fat daddy

I am in the same boat.

I have narrowed it down now to either wearing just a ss top and looser fitting Gore gortex jacket if its looking like rain ... the heat build up inside the jacket is offset by not wearing much underneath and I don't cook, also being a looser fit there is air circulation .. but at the expense of having more drag and noise.

my other option is go SS top again and if its proper colg arm warmers, with just a light, non waterproof but windproof sportful reflex jacket .... it really is just a tissue paper thin wind stopper .... pretty much like you are not wearing anything, but the the wind stops


Effectively, I have to run cold, aim to be too cold and I end up a normal temperature by the end

jerry3571

It's like we are twins
I got the same Sportful jacket. I think about 15 years ago there were cheaper Ripstop type materials which slowed the wind rather than stop it. This stuff seems to have gone. I think they have coated these jackets and made the fibres closer and windproof.
A customer of mine, ex army, says that some people run Hot and others not so. I agree. Had a new cyclist in a cafe and tapped him on the shoulder and he was dry. My eyes popped out my head and I asked him about the jacket. He bought it from Sports Direct. I bought the same jacket and sweated in it. He was a big guy too. Meh!! :?

trek_dan

Gabba.
Or something like a Sportful Hot Pack gilet to keep the cold off your chest with a regular long sleeve jersey underneath.

thistle_

What do you need the jacket for? Keeping warm or keeping dry in a downpour?

I have a softshell top which is reasonably warm and keeps dry in a bit of drizzle but it's no good for anything more.

Matthewfalle

thistle (MBNW) wrote:

What do you need the jacket for? Keeping warm or keeping dry in a downpour?

I have a softshell top which is reasonably warm and keeps dry in a bit of drizzle but it's no good for anything more.

This - my Assos jacket is tight fitting, gorgeous to wear, really warm but not really of use in much more than a light shower.

Generally no need to wear anything more than a freebie Ride London long sleeved top underneath - today it's just an aero short sleeved DHB top and the bib by things from my bibs.

meanredspider

trek_dan wrote:

Gabba.

Gabba is one of the sweatiest non-hardshell jackets there is. I once rode in the dry with my phone in the back pocket and it came out dripping wet with sweat.

timothyw

I don't see the point in winter jackets, personally.

I just layer up - so if required two base layers, if the wind is cold then put on the gillet also.

The gillet is good because it keeps the wind off my chest, while having mesh sides that allow air to circulate.

One point to make though, it isn't such a bad thing that your base layer is wet - the big reason why Merino is good for base layers is it still keeps you nice and warm even when it is wet. It's easy to compare the difference in feel of wet merino against skin versus a wet cotton t shirt which feels freezing.

So while we don't want to get unduly hot and sweaty (or to be carrying the extra weight of moisture that ought have evaporated) so long as you are/were a comfortable temperature having a wet base layer isn't really a problem.

Hinaultscrapcousin

POC AVIP jacket does me very well through winter.

mrb123

We probably need to be realistic enough to accept that the more protection a fabric offers, the less breathable it is likely to be. A garment that offers 100% water and windproofing and still remains breathable when working hard on the bike probably doesn't exist.

GoreTex works to an extent for hillwalking in the wet because you're generally exerting yourself at a lower level so the sweat build up simply isn't so much of an issue. The problem on the bike in winter is that there's such a huge difference between working hard up a climb and then descending when you're suddenly pretty much motionless and being hit by strong cold air.

The best designs for use on the bike tend to be things like the Alpha jersey which have a softshell front and shoulders and so provide the wind and weather resistance you need, then a non-softshell back to let out some of the excess heat and perspiration. Like others have said though, a garment like that will not work in the very worst weather.

If it's really cold and wet, I think it comes down to two choices. Wear something like a Gabba in which you'll end up wet but may stay warm if you keep working hard enough. Or go for a full waterproof but accept that you'll end up wet with sweat anyway if you push on too much.

singleton

MrB123 wrote:

We probably need to be realistic enough to accept that the more protection a fabric offers, the less breathable it is likely to be. A garment that offers 100% water and windproofing and still remains breathable when working hard on the bike probably doesn't exist.
...
If it's really cold and wet, I think it comes down to two choices. Wear something like a Gabba in which you'll end up wet but may stay warm if you keep working hard enough. Or go for a full waterproof but accept that you'll end up wet with sweat anyway if you push on too much.

^ What he said.
If under about 5-7C I will wear a craft base layer and a Gore Power 2.0 Soft Shell Jacket and find that works down to below freezing and any temperature that I've been out in.
If it's raining - your choice is to be wet and warm or to be wet and cold. You can't avoid getting wet - either from sweat or from rain - but you just need to decide how to manage it.
If it's wet enough, I'll wear a craft base layer, maybe a regular jersey depending on temperature, and then a Gore Oxygen 2.0 Waterproof Jacket - which is the best breathing waterproof I've ever found - but not cheap.

fenix

You can get gilets with a windrproof front and a mesh back ? Might be ok for you with a non windproof long sleeve.

keef66

This time of year I spend most of the time wearing a LS baselayer and a Gore softshell. The baselayer is a thin synthetic thermal job from M&S; quite snug which means it wicks sweat away really well. It's hardly ever damp. The softshell is windstopper at the front and on the arms, but very breathable at the back, so I rarely overheat. If the temperature does rise too far I just unzip the sleeves so I have a windstopper gilet / breathable back.

It's not waterproof, but if it does get wet it's still warm.

If I know I'm going to be out in proper rain I have a Goretex paclite shell which is surprisingly breathable, and I just adjust the layers beneath it according to temperature and how hard I'll be pushing. I can tell how well it's shifting moisture by the condensation on the few non-breathable bits like the taped seams and when I have something in a pocket. Base layer is usually dry.

jerry3571

Oh dear, a sweaty Gabba!!! That's it then, if the holy grail has failed then its the windproof angle is no good.
Interesting point about keeping yourself on the cool side whilst riding to deter the body from sweating. I like to be a bit warm when riding. Problem is with hills here, I start off warm, get sweaty and chilly so my body compensates by sweating more as I'm toasty. At the top of the hill I'm a bit sticky and then I'm wet. Maybe riding cool from the start might help?
Is Gore Windstopper less sweaty than the top end goretex? I read its similar in its breathability. :idea:
Maybe these jackets need to have mesh backs like the Gillets. Might get back in to my Gillets.

keef66

jerry3571 wrote:

Is Gore Windstopper less sweaty than the top end goretex? I read its similar in its breathability. :idea:
Maybe these jackets need to have mesh backs like the Gillets. Might get back in to my Gillets.

The back of my Gore softshell is so breathable it might as well be mesh; if you hold it up to the light you can see straight through it. The Castelli Alpha sounds the same. And I think that's how they work so well; warm / windproof at the front and extremely breathable at the back.

bendertherobot

There's no magic here. If the entire jacket is softshell then that's what hampers breathability. If the rear is roubaix or mesh then that helps enormously. The latter, naturally, MAY be less warm. It's a trade off.

I've cycled in (minus temps) today in the Assos Bonka. It's stupidly priced but goes for the better option of a 'roubaix' back and softshell other bits. Though in Assos' case it's not really softshell per se, more whatever weird proprietary stuff they come up with.

webboo

I too run hot to the extent that I cannot wear sunglasses on my bike without either a halo sweat band in warm weather or a hat in winter under my helmet. As the sweat runs off my helmet on to my glasses.
So no matter how breathable my jacket is my base layer is wet. I guess it's just one of those things you have to live with. Someone mentioned Gortex was for hill walking where you aren't working that hard so you don't get sweaty. When I am walking to up hill to go rock climbing I often take a spare shirt because even just walking in a base layer it will be wet.
Some of us are just sweaty b*stards.

JesseD

I generally run hot most of the time and sometimes struggle to find the right combination of what to wear to stop boiling in the bag.

Best bit of kit I have is a merino long-sleeved base layer with a wind stopper front panel by Giodarna, I can go out in most cold conditions with a PX cheap baselayer on, then this and with a Roubaix type top on as an outer layer, I still sweat a bit but nothing that leaves me soaked through and really cold, the other thing I make sure I wear is a cap under my helmet and gloves, I find with these I have to wear less layers and I lose less heat via my head and hands.

supermurph09

I have the Gabba LS, in temps down to freezing I'll wear it with a mesh base layer, arm warmers and often even a gilet and I never experience being sweaty, I also never experience being cold. I'll throw in that this is the case for very hard rides or general tempo type stuff.

I think people are just too different, what works for one doesn't for another, trial and error I guess.

singleton

Supermurph09 wrote:

I have the Gabba LS, in temps down to freezing I'll wear it with a mesh base layer, arm warmers and often even a gilet...

Arm warmers with a LS Gabba?
I've not really heard that before - do you get cold arms or is there another reason?

jerry3571

I guess an obvious thing is the route. I live in a lumpy area and I'm a bit heavy too. So hills means sweating. I do go north to a flatter area where I find I drink a lot less and maybe sweat a lot less. Maybe do the lumpy bits when the weather turns. Tricky to do.

w00dster

Have you tried the merino wool long sleeve jersey and a gilet option?
Apart from today when it was about 1 degree, the last few rides I've done is just in a merino short sleeve base layer, arm warmers, long sleeve jersey and a gillet. Gilet came off when I was too hot then back on again later in the ride.
The arm warmers for me are because I don't really notice if I sweat too much in the arms, but I want them to be warm. The merino base layer is great for wicking from the back, along with the jersey - the gilet I have is a solid front with a holey back (if that makes sense) - so keeps the chill away from the chest but allows breathing through the back. Works for me.
I also take a rain proof boil in the bag race cape with me, more for emergency use as I don't like wearing it.

apreading

I boil in just about anything but the Castelli Alpha is surprisingly good. Thinner windstopper than the Gabba on the front but still manages to stop the wind, with jersey type roubaix fabric on the rear that has a water repellant coating. And if you need to unzip some/all of the front, there is still a jersey type inner to stop you losing all warmth.

jerry3571

w00dster wrote:

Have you tried the merino wool long sleeve jersey and a gilet option?
Apart from today when it was about 1 degree, the last few rides I've done is just in a merino short sleeve base layer, arm warmers, long sleeve jersey and a gillet. Gilet came off when I was too hot then back on again later in the ride.
The arm warmers for me are because I don't really notice if I sweat too much in the arms, but I want them to be warm. The merino base layer is great for wicking from the back, along with the jersey - the gilet I have is a solid front with a holey back (if that makes sense) - so keeps the chill away from the chest but allows breathing through the back. Works for me.
I also take a rain proof boil in the bag race cape with me, more for emergency use as I don't like wearing it.

I'm supposed to be allergic to wool. I won't tell you about the story of my sore bum as a three year old ok. :shock:
I use an incredibly cheap thin fleece from those unethical Slave Drivers: Sports Direct. It's a Gilert Fleece. Best buy in years. I've had good base layers but this is dandy. £7!!!

ugo.santalucia

If you cycle hard you will sweat in any jacket... the point of winter is to do less intense workouts... then you won't sweat that much and the jacket will cope with it

jerry3571

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If you cycle hard you will sweat in any jacket... the point of winter is to do less intense workouts... then you won't sweat that much and the jacket will cope with it

Depending where you live i guess. Nice to have flat roads. :roll:

ugo.santalucia

jerry3571 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If you cycle hard you will sweat in any jacket... the point of winter is to do less intense workouts... then you won't sweat that much and the jacket will cope with it

Depending where you live i guess. Nice to have flat roads. :roll:

No solution then, you are doomed. There is a reason PROs head to the warm weather this time of the year if they want to train for climbing

I suppose you could try a long sleeve jersey to go up and a winter jacket to come down... you just need a way to carry it...

Very hard not to freeze descending though...

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Very hard not to freeze descending though...

Almost literally. On the first descent of AD6, a lady wiped out a guy and broke his carbon bike because she couldn't brake due to the cold. The army were at the bottom, looking into people's eyes and wrapping blankets around those they suspected of proper "cold" issues. One of the few pictures I have of the day, I have leg warmers around my ankles and arm warmers around my wrists on one of the climbs.

sungod

use a full mesh baselayer designed for high effort in extreme conditions

even if you get drenched it'll still have minimal skin contact which means far less contact chilling - air pockets maintain insulation while allowing moisture direct access to the outer layer - baselayers made from merino etc. have nowhere near the performance at high levels of exertion

these really are both the dog's b​ollocks and the bee's knees...

http://www.brynje-shop.com/en/sportswea ... 0300-p9610

pblakeney

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I suppose you could try a long sleeve jersey to go up and a winter jacket to come down... you just need a way to carry it..

What works for me 8 months of the year is base layer, s/s jersey, arm warmers and a wind/rain proof jacket in the jersey pocket. It isn't breathable, but doesn't have to be as I take it off at the bottom or when I warm up.
2 months I need a winter jacket and 2 months I can dispense with the arm warmers and jacket.

superlightweight

sungod wrote:

use a full mesh baselayer designed for high effort in extreme conditions

even if you get drenched it'll still have minimal skin contact which means far less contact chilling - air pockets maintain insulation while allowing moisture direct access to the outer layer - baselayers made from merino etc. have nowhere near the performance at high levels of exertion

these really are both the dog's b​ollocks and the bee's knees...

http://www.brynje-shop.com/en/sportswea ... 0300-p9610

That looks good, whats the sizing like?

Totally agree with you about merino wool, its really not the best material if you run hot / sweat lots as it just doesn't wick the moisture away as well as synthetic pieces. Surprised it gets so many recommendations in this situation, there must be a lot of people riding around with very damp baselayers!