Is Disc brake noise unavoidable?

plodder73

I'm not talking about squealing which I know has been discussed many times, I'm talking about the scraping, grinding noise you get when the roads are wet and a bit dirty.
Bike is fine in the dry, but in the wet with a bit of crap they don't half make a racket. I really can't see a remedy for this bearing in mind the tiny gap between rotor and pad. Is there any way of increasing this gap on hydraulic discs therefore alleviating the problem.

ugo.santalucia

You can't see a remedy because there isn't one...

Is it such a big issue?

plodder73

Thanks, only an issue if bike noises drive you mad. Suppose need to weigh it up with the ability to stop in the wet. Life is full of compromises.

fat daddy

hang on are you saying it makes a noise without the brakes being depressed, ie there is always some drag on the pad to the disc ?

if so, I don't believe that should happen ... I have multiple hydraulic and mechanical setups .. although none on drops and none of them do this.

(1) are they brand new ? ... the noise might go away in the next 50miles as you wear the pads and disc down
(2) do the need setting up again, ie take pads out, push the calipers all the way back in, re -install disks and bring them in again
(3) is the caliper properly aligned - try re aligning again it might be touching one side only
(4) too much oil in the system, let some out - DANGER WILL ROBINSON ... once yougo down the bleeding road nothing is ever the same again (well not for me, I cant bleed anything)

ugo.santalucia

Plodder73 wrote:

Life is full of compromises.

It is... provided the rotor is centered in the caliper, there is nothing you can do about it. The distance between pad and disc is set in hydraulics and you can't change it.

Most importantly, don't listen to anyone who advises to bleed the brakes... it seems to be an obsession these days... you DO NOT need to bleed your brakes

grenw

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Plodder73 wrote:

Life is full of compromises.

It is... provided the rotor is centered in the caliper, there is nothing you can do about it. The distance between pad and disc is set in hydraulics and you can't change it.

The small gap means stuff that gets in will almost always rub. Dragging the brakes a little will clean them off but if it's a wet and muddy ride it won't stay that way for long.

Never seen it as a problem after several years on the mtb bike. Maybe it's just a little less 'expected' on the road?

rolf_f

GrenW wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Plodder73 wrote:

Life is full of compromises.

It is... provided the rotor is centered in the caliper, there is nothing you can do about it. The distance between pad and disc is set in hydraulics and you can't change it.

The small gap means stuff that gets in will almost always rub. Dragging the brakes a little will clean them off but if it's a wet and muddy ride it won't stay that way for long.

Never seen it as a problem after several years on the mtb bike. Maybe it's just a little less 'expected' on the road?

I think on road it is just more noticeable - and road riders who maintain their own bikes expect them to be quiet!

bendertherobot

Yeah, put it this way, if you moved your rim brakes so that they were constantly almost in contact with the rim, then rode in those conditions, you'd hear stuff. Not as much given the nature of rubber, surface area etc but it would be there.

Anything that goes through a disc caliper will resonate. Pulling the brake may get shot of it, may not.

Then it rains. Discs make great alternatives to bells.

plodder73

Thanks all, yes bike is pretty much brand new, I have aligned the caliper so that there is equal gap each side.
I can't see how pushing the pistons in will work as surely they will just return. Like most have said it seems unavoidable, the noise definately seems more noticeable from the front wheel but then again I'm nearer to that and the rear has other noises like freewheel and drivetrain to distract.

svetty

Riding in a group where several riders have discs inevitably means a cacophony of squealing on hills or at junctions if the roads are wet. Drives me nuts.....

ugo.santalucia

Svetty wrote:

Riding in a group where several riders have discs inevitably means a cacophony of squealing on hills or at junctions if the roads are wet. Drives me nuts.....

It must be terrible... :roll:

svetty

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Svetty wrote:

Riding in a group where several riders have discs inevitably means a cacophony of squealing on hills or at junctions if the roads are wet. Drives me nuts.....

It must be terrible... :roll:

Was that necessary? :roll: :roll:

step83

Svetty wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Svetty wrote:

Riding in a group where several riders have discs inevitably means a cacophony of squealing on hills or at junctions if the roads are wet. Drives me nuts.....

It must be terrible... :roll:

Was that necessary? :roll: :roll:

Fully.

Disc noise has always been there on mountain bikes, you expect it. go barrelling down a hill youll kick up grit etc in the brake. If the pads are centered theres not really anything you can do bar the mentioned trailing the brake a bit to clear what ever is making the noise.

rolf_f

Svetty wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Svetty wrote:

Riding in a group where several riders have discs inevitably means a cacophony of squealing on hills or at junctions if the roads are wet. Drives me nuts.....

It must be terrible... :roll:

Was that necessary? :roll: :roll:

Of course. This is the internet. If you find something really annoying that someone else doesn't mind then you get a rolleyes smiley and you deserve it. Now go away and don't express what you think to be a perfectly reasonable and understandable opinion again!

ugo.santalucia

Svetty wrote:

Was that necessary? :roll: :roll:

Probably not, I just find all this bike snobbery amusing... people who can't stand othes' bikes noise, people who can't stand folks with/without mudguards, people who can't stand if someone wears/rides a particular brand... people who can't stand anything

The all club scene is made out people who can't stand others and pretty much only ride together to go that little bit faster

rolf_f

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Svetty wrote:

Was that necessary? :roll: :roll:

Probably not, I just find all this bike snobbery amusing... people who can't stand othes' bikes noise, people who can't stand folks with/without mudguards, people who can't stand if someone wears/rides a particular brand... people who can't stand anything

The all club scene is made out people who can't stand others and pretty much only ride together to go that little bit faster

It's not snobbery - what on earth does snobbery have to do with this? It's not liking being near machinery sounding like it is being tortured to death. It's not liking being sprayed in the face with cow shit because someone can't be arsed to put mudguards on. Would you not complain if you went out with some mates and one constantly spilled his drink over you? And if you did, would you expect your other mates to be complaining about what a snob you were for doing so?

People whining about what others wear or ride is a completely different thing.

ugo.santalucia

Rolf F wrote:

Would you not complain if you went out with some mates and one constantly spilled his drink over you? And if you did, would you expect your other mates to be complaining about what a snob you were for doing so?

.

No, I wouldn't... flying snot has been dispensed and received without too much in the way of complaints, it's all part of the game... if you don't enjoy it, go solo, or at least avoid a chaingang

BTW: I normally can't stand people, so tend to go solo

meanredspider

Has anybody tried the fixes that are used on cars? Firstly is a thin film of coppaslip paste between the piston and pad backing. Another is a very thin sheet of aluminium in the same place (harder to do on a bike) but I think there are pads with different backing materials. They both effectively do the same thing which is to slop the pad to piston noise as the brakes are applied.

There's certainly different behaviour (as you'd expect) with different pad materials. The noise doesn't bother me so I've never looked into it but some pads I fit never make a noise and others squeal like a stuck pig.

On the positive side, if you're riding in a group, you get instant aural notification that someone's on the anchors. I also found it useful for alerting peds on the shared path across the Kessock Bridge.

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Would you not complain if you went out with some mates and one constantly spilled his drink over you? And if you did, would you expect your other mates to be complaining about what a snob you were for doing so?

.

No, I wouldn't... flying snot has been dispensed and received without too much in the way of complaints, it's all part of the game... if you don't enjoy it, go solo, or at least avoid a chaingang

BTW: I normally can't stand people, so tend to go solo

Maybe Kittel got lamped because his brakes were squealing....?

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

Has anybody tried the fixes that are used on cars? Firstly is a thin film of coppaslip paste between the piston and pad backing.

Tried, it works in dry conditions only, makes the pads really quiet, does nothing in the wet. And then I lived in fear of the stuff leaching out and contaminating the other side of the pad

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

Maybe Kittel got lamped because his brakes were squealing....?

Or he made a joke about Trump and Putin...

rolf_f

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Would you not complain if you went out with some mates and one constantly spilled his drink over you? And if you did, would you expect your other mates to be complaining about what a snob you were for doing so?

.

No, I wouldn't... flying snot has been dispensed and received without too much in the way of complaints, it's all part of the game... if you don't enjoy it, go solo, or at least avoid a chaingang

I thought riding bikes with mudguards fitted in winter was part of the game! Some clubs won't let you ride without them. Others, like ours, politely request and folk look vaguely hurt if serial offenders insist on spraying crap at them. I wear specs so whilst I don't mind the mud in general, it's the not being able to see where I am going that I find irritating. I've never thought that that might be construed as snobbery before!

ugo.santalucia

Rolf F wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Would you not complain if you went out with some mates and one constantly spilled his drink over you? And if you did, would you expect your other mates to be complaining about what a snob you were for doing so?

.

No, I wouldn't... flying snot has been dispensed and received without too much in the way of complaints, it's all part of the game... if you don't enjoy it, go solo, or at least avoid a chaingang

I thought riding bikes with mudguards fitted in winter was part of the game! Some clubs won't let you ride without them. Others, like ours, politely request and folk look vaguely hurt if serial offenders insist on spraying crap at them. I wear specs so whilst I don't mind the mud in general, it's the not being able to see where I am going that I find irritating. I've never thought that that might be construed as snobbery before!

Divisive issue. Mudguards still spray, just they do so at a lower angle, so if you are two or more metres away you get sprayed...

Either way I said with/without mudguards, so both tribes

rolf_f

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Would you not complain if you went out with some mates and one constantly spilled his drink over you? And if you did, would you expect your other mates to be complaining about what a snob you were for doing so?

.

No, I wouldn't... flying snot has been dispensed and received without too much in the way of complaints, it's all part of the game... if you don't enjoy it, go solo, or at least avoid a chaingang

I thought riding bikes with mudguards fitted in winter was part of the game! Some clubs won't let you ride without them. Others, like ours, politely request and folk look vaguely hurt if serial offenders insist on spraying crap at them. I wear specs so whilst I don't mind the mud in general, it's the not being able to see where I am going that I find irritating. I've never thought that that might be construed as snobbery before!

Divisive issue. Mudguards still spray, just they do so at a lower angle, so if you are two or more metres away you get sprayed...

Either way I said with/without mudguards, so both tribes

Does make a big difference though. And if they have mudguards, and their spray is no worse than yours, you have no reason to get angry and want to kill them repeatedly. None of this is entirely rational.

dennisn

I'm pretty sure rim brakes will solve your disc brake noise issues.

meanredspider

dennisn wrote:

I'm pretty sure rim brakes will solve your disc brake noise issues.

Just won't solve your stopping in the wet issues...

I mean, you could just not brake at all

frisbee

My rim brakes, especially the back one, make a horrible noise in wet mucky conditions. Its not as loud but its a nasty grinding paste chewing away at your rims noise.

rolf_f

frisbee wrote:

My rim brakes, especially the back one, make a horrible noise in wet mucky conditions. Its not as loud but its a nasty grinding paste chewing away at your rims noise.

The difference is that this (should) only be happening when you are braking - not all the time.

meanredspider

Rolf F wrote:

frisbee wrote:

My rim brakes, especially the back one, make a horrible noise in wet mucky conditions. Its not as loud but its a nasty grinding paste chewing away at your rims noise.

The difference is that this (should) only be happening when you are braking - not all the time.

The difference is that a disc is £20 and a wheel £200+

Discs only occasionally rub with a bit of wet grit - cleared when the brakes are applied again - "not all the time".

rolf_f

meanredspider wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

frisbee wrote:

My rim brakes, especially the back one, make a horrible noise in wet mucky conditions. Its not as loud but its a nasty grinding paste chewing away at your rims noise.

The difference is that this (should) only be happening when you are braking - not all the time.

The difference is that a disc is £20 and a wheel £200+

Discs only occasionally rub with a bit of wet grit - cleared when the brakes are applied again - "not all the time".

If you are paying £200 for a single wheel to use in winter then you can buy wheel with a Rigida/Ryde carbide coated rim and also not have to worry about rim wear. There are almost always more solutions to problems than the default ones.

Thanks for the "not all the time comment" - I meant of course that the scraping noise on rims only applies when the brakes are on whereas on the discs it applies when they are off as well. That definitely isn't all the time so a bit of pedantry is always appreciated to remind me that some folk insist on taking everything that people say 100% literally.