And Shimano said, 'Thou Shalt not Cross Chain...."

bernithebiker

Just installed and reviewed the new Di2 9150 rear derailleur.

Shimano will not let you go into 10 and 11 when on the small ring.

If you're in big/small, and try to drop the chain on the front, Shimano says no! They will move up two gears on the back.

THEN you can drop the chain!

meanredspider

Isn't that just the default setting...

bernithebiker

meanredspider wrote:

Isn't that just the default setting...

Not sure. It's not Syncho Shift though, it's just 'Anti Cross Chaining'.

As the new derailleur crashed the Etubes app, I can no longer access / interrogate my system, so I'm stuck with it like that for the time being.....

ugo.santalucia

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

That makes total sense - Di2 puts mechanics out of a job.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

What does Shimano Di2 say when running 1x11?

Does it depend upon chainring size and largest cassette sprocket size?

Or do you have to tell it what chainline you are running?

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

That makes total sense - Di2 puts mechanics out of a job.

He loves it, says it avoids him having to do silly jobs on broken derailleurs/chains and can concentrate on the ones he prefers (and probably charges more for)

Garry H

ugo.santalucia wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

That makes total sense - Di2 puts mechanics out of a job.

He loves it, says it avoids him having to do silly jobs on broken derailleurs/chains and can concentrate on the ones he prefers (and probably charges more for)

Changing inner tubes?

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

That makes total sense - Di2 puts mechanics out of a job.

He loves it, says it avoids him having to do silly jobs on broken derailleurs/chains and can concentrate on the ones he prefers (and probably charges more for)

Well, I can see that if he has more work than he can handle. With no gear cables to adjust, clean or replace, I've never needed to touch mine in nearly 6 years. I can't see how bike mechanics can be pleased with that - after all, bike spannering is pretty low down the pecking order of difficulty so it's not like there are many other things that they can turn their hands to.

sloppyschleckonds

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

MeanRedSpider has it on all his bikes.

part time waster

All this sounds like you are ganging up on shimano , a bit unfair , they make reasonably good fishing equipment.

meanredspider

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

MeanRedSpider has it on all his bikes.

Yes - I've been trying to find some way to stop you stalking me Clearly it hasn't worked :roll: That mechanic clearly hasn't met a top-notch idiot

ugo.santalucia

The two of you should find a way to resolve our differences. "road talks" or something like that. You should enter the same 25 mile TT, the faster gets bragging rights, the slower will be wrong for the rest of times... :-)

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

The two of you should find a way to resolve our differences. "road talks" or something like that. You should enter the same 25 mile TT, the faster gets bragging rights, the slower will be wrong for the rest of times... :-)

The funny thing is that it's all one-way traffic. You'd be hard-pressed to find a single instance of where I've trolled Floppy. He stalks me which, TBH, I find funny - mostly because he's so bad at it - kinda like a thick playground bully. I'd miss it if he stopped. We'd have to wait until the summer for a TT because he's scared of the cold as he tells us nearly every day.

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

We'd have to wait until the summer for a TT because he's scared of the cold as he tells us nearly every day.

Dates, we need dates when you are available...

chris_bass

do it on zwift and we can all watch (avoids the cold then too!)

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

We'd have to wait until the summer for a TT because he's scared of the cold as he tells us nearly every day.

Dates, we need dates when you are available...

Tell me how my daughter's leukaemia is going to pan out and I'll happily give you a date - nothing, right now, would make me happier (sorry if that's not quite as light-hearted as it might be: watching a second of my kids go through brutal cancer treatment makes me realise that you could throw pretty much any challenge at me right now and I'd take it) . How about double Cingles, SS, 2018?

You can all come and watch

bianchimoon

meanredspider wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

We'd have to wait until the summer for a TT because he's scared of the cold as he tells us nearly every day.

Dates, we need dates when you are available...

Tell me how my daughter's leukaemia is going to pan out and I'll happily give you a date - nothing, right now, would make me happier (sorry if that's not quite as light-hearted as it might be: watching a second of my kids go through brutal cancer treatment makes me realise that you could throw pretty much any challenge at me right now and I'd take it) . How about double Cingles, SS, 2018?

You can all come and watch

That shut a few people up, hope things go well, best wishes to your daughter for a full and speedy recovery

meanredspider

bianchimoon wrote:

hope things go well, best wishes to your daughter for a full and speedy recovery

Thank you!

vinnymarsden

Petty and silly as some of the spats on here may be, I am certain Mean that EVERYONE wishes your daughter only the very best, and for your family too.
Keep riding as/when you can, ignore CRAP on here and good luck.

StillGoing

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

Not really true in this day and age though is it. SRAM is built to be able to cross chain without damage to the derailleurs. Yes it puts extra resistance on the chain line, but for that momentary extra gear when going up a short climb rather than changing down on the front, its perfectly acceptable these days. We know the best gear is the one that offers the least line of resistance in the chain, but that'd mean us all just using the middle two sprockets on the cassette all the time.

bernithebiker

FWIW, Shimano has told me that this is the 'default' setting, designed to 'minimise chain and sprocket wear', but that it can be disabled.
A bit odd as I thought one of the things that Di2 was being originally sold for was the ability to auto-trim and allow (some) cross chaining.
If you have the Etubes app. Tick
If you have the new Bluetooth EW-WU101 Dfly sender. Tick
If you have the new internal battery BT-DN110. Tick
But because 9150 is not yet compatible with said Etubes app, you cannot access anything, you get an ERROR message.
Shimano says they're 'not ready' yet, and you'll just have to wait.
Pretty crap if you're paying 2.5 grand for a shifting set.

Bobbinogs

philthy3 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

Not really true in this day and age though is it. SRAM is built to be able to cross chain without damage to the derailleurs. Yes it puts extra resistance on the chain line, but for that momentary extra gear when going up a short climb rather than changing down on the front, its perfectly acceptable these days. ...

Only really acceptable (in my book) if you also accept the fact that you greatly increase the risk of a broken chain. Far better to read the road (as in, there's a big hill) and shift accordingly. A setup should be able to deal with cross chaining in case of user error, but that doesn't mean it should be used as routine practice.

StillGoing

Bobbinogs wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

Not really true in this day and age though is it. SRAM is built to be able to cross chain without damage to the derailleurs. Yes it puts extra resistance on the chain line, but for that momentary extra gear when going up a short climb rather than changing down on the front, its perfectly acceptable these days. ...

Only really acceptable (in my book) if you also accept the fact that you greatly increase the risk of a broken chain. Far better to read the road (as in, there's a big hill) and shift accordingly. A setup should be able to deal with cross chaining in case of user error, but that doesn't mean it should be used as routine practice.

I'm not talking about a big hill that you know is coming. This is those situations where you get a temporary rise the in the incline, that takes a minute or two to get over and where cross chaining for that short time, is preferable to messing about changing on the front and the back to get the right gear. SRAM designed their group sets with just such a scenario in mind so there is no chain rub on the derailleur.

bianchimoon

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

so all of the pro peloton then :roll:

meanredspider

VinnyMarsden wrote:

Petty and silly as some of the spats on here may be, I am certain Mean that EVERYONE wishes your daughter only the very best, and for your family too.
Keep riding as/when you can, ignore CRAP on here and good luck.

Thanks, Vinny, I really appreciate it.

I know to some on here that I appear arrogant (which is funny because It's never a word that's been used about me in any other context) and I think it's because, after going through the crap I've been through with cancer in my kids, my father, losing several friends and colleagues, in the last 5-6 years, (nearly) all of the stuff on here seems so utterly trivial. I don't really care about any of it. Sloppy's name-calling is water off a duck's back. Spend an hour on a cancer ward (especially a kids' or teenage cancer ward) and it resets your perspective on everything. Have two of your kids get cancer and you become utterly bulletproof.

Last night, my beautiful 21 year old daughter, who has lost over 10% of her body weight and all of her hair, suddenly started coughing and had a rash appear all over her body after having platelets. She was already running a fever from an infection for which she's getting IV antibiotics. Her tongue is swollen and incredibly sore from a chemo-induced ulcer. She was utterly panicked in floods of shocked tears. At 2am we had to change her pyjamas and bedclothes because they were soaked in sweat. Her temperature though had dropped to 35.5C.

Tell me I care that some sad individual on here wants to call me names.

flasher

bianchimoon wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

so all of the pro peloton then :roll:

They ride what they're told to ride, there is no choice.

ugo.santalucia

bianchimoon wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

so all of the pro peloton then :roll:

I don't think Shimano had professional races in mind, when they came up with di2.
If you rewind 25 years, the proof of concept already existed, then 10 years later Campagnolo had a go at it, then eventually Shimano marketed it first... it's been a dream of the industry for long to come up with electric shifting... not to solve any specific problem, but to have something new to work on and sell at a premium.

Incidentally it solves a lot of issues of bad/inaccurate shifting and basically makes the all process idiotproof, which is a bonus, as you don't need a licence to ride a bike and some people seem to use paddle shifters at the most inappropriate times, like whilst grinding at 30 rpm up a slope.
It does introduce a range of new challenges, which also is good, because it means they can keep upgrading stuff and maintaining a high price point, which frankly the mechanical groupsets can no longer justify

shortfall

philthy3 wrote:

Bobbinogs wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

Not really true in this day and age though is it. SRAM is built to be able to cross chain without damage to the derailleurs. Yes it puts extra resistance on the chain line, but for that momentary extra gear when going up a short climb rather than changing down on the front, its perfectly acceptable these days. ...

Only really acceptable (in my book) if you also accept the fact that you greatly increase the risk of a broken chain. Far better to read the road (as in, there's a big hill) and shift accordingly. A setup should be able to deal with cross chaining in case of user error, but that doesn't mean it should be used as routine practice.

I'm not talking about a big hill that you know is coming. This is those situations where you get a temporary rise the in the incline, that takes a minute or two to get over and where cross chaining for that short time, is preferable to messing about changing on the front and the back to get the right gear. SRAM designed their group sets with just such a scenario in mind so there is no chain rub on the derailleur.

Yes, because moving 2 levers a fraction of an inch is such a faff. Or not.

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Makes total sense... di2 was introduced for those who can't shift gear (words from a mechanic I met recently), now they've made it idiotproof

so all of the pro peloton then :roll:

I don't think Shimano had professional races in mind, when they came up with di2.
If you rewind 25 years, the proof of concept already existed, then 10 years later Campagnolo had a go at it, then eventually Shimano marketed it first... it's been a dream of the industry for long to come up with electric shifting... not to solve any specific problem, but to have something new to work on and sell at a premium.

Incidentally it solves a lot of issues of bad/inaccurate shifting and basically makes the all process idiotproof, which is a bonus, as you don't need a licence to ride a bike and some people seem to use paddle shifters at the most inappropriate times, like whilst grinding at 30 rpm up a slope.
It does introduce a range of new challenges, which also is good, because it means they can keep upgrading stuff and maintaining a high price point, which frankly the mechanical groupsets can no longer justify

Convince yourself about the reasons for Di2 all you like. In reality it's just the way everything goes. Go read a bit about TRIZ - there's a technology flow identified in that which is spookily accurate and can be used to predict where any existing technology will go next (disrupters excepted). That alone would tell you that Di2 was coming. If that wasn't enough, businesses constantly look to exploit technology before the competition. Just imagine if Shimano did nothing and eTap came along, for instance. Not to mention that eTubes is used on far more stuff than Ultegra and DA - eBikes in particular - so the investment is widely spread.

bernithebiker

Of course no one should intentionally plan to use 10 or 11 in small ring, but it happens. If in a race, a break happens on a hill and you have to catch it or miss out, you might have no choice but to use 10 or 11 however briefly.

Being told by Shimano that you can't, sucks in my opinion.