Mostly tarmac ice 700/29er tyres?

N0bodyOfTheGoat

The last week of borderline temperatures and reports of a few spills by forum members has finally made me seriously think I ought to buy a set, given I'm trying to get out more at the moment, even if it is just for a very short ~20 minute dash (which I've purposely been doing after lunch on days off to increase the odds of any slippery stuff melting away, so far so good)!

Given most of their use will be on tarmac (even after the bedding in period on asphalt I've read about) on frost/icy mornings, the top contenders are currently...
45Nrth Gravdal 700x38 (£35 each at Charliethebikemonger)
Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro t/l ready 29x2.25 (£52.56 each at Athleteshop)

Part of me thinks get the Gravdals, they are cheaper and have a tread pattern that looks better suited to mostly tarmac rides, but part of me thinks gets the Ice Spiker Pros for 402 studs (vs 252) and the possibility of tubeless. I guess I'm also concerned about spending ~£100 on a pair of tyres that might be safer, but then wear very quickly on tarmac, on the days the are fitted.

Any thoughts/experiences on the above, or another suggestion?

ugo.santalucia

Going tubeless on a tyre that weighs almost a Kg and it's impenetrable seems a waste of time... these are the donkeys of the tyre world, they won't become race horses. Schwalbe winter might be all you need if it's mostly tarmac

gabriel959

I have been using Schwable Winters, managed to buy them for 10 quid each a couple of years back. They weigh a ton, as per Ugo's post, they are dead slow too but will get you there :-)

https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/sch ... GwodH8cFEA

I use those in the 30c form.

fat daddy

I use the schwalbe winter .... it has a lot less spikes, but I haven't had so much as a wobble on them and that incuded the single day of Snow.

the rubber is soft the knobbles are shallow but roll around and gip well in the cold, .. I love them as when I go to work it can be a heavy frost and ice streams across the road, but on the way home, being Bristol its now 7 deg and wet

they roll fine, sure I am slower, but I am still kicking arse in the world of SCR, its not like they are complete dogs.

they grip on ice ! ... its wet every evening, in the morning that water is ice
they grip on frozen grass ... I short cut across a few playing fields, hey are fine on that
they grip on light snow
they grip on frost

the back only spun up once and that was a sprint past a car that was flailing about in the middle of the road trying to get out of his drive and getting stuck .... it was polished ice

If I lived in scotcland I would wanta billion spikes but for commuting in the south west they cope awesomely with sub zero conditions

bompington

I'm currently running the Winters, mainly because they were cheap. Slow indeed, but I would guess that the laws of physics are against you whatever studded tyre you've got. Overall they seem fine: -6 this morning and plenty of frost on road so felt happy to have them, no black ice though so would probably have got away with slicks.

I did have Nokian Hakkeplitta A10s previously, they have the advantage of being slimmer (32, more like 30 in reality) and, while it's hard to tell for sure, may have been a tad less sluggish - the studs are on the shoulders so barely make contact if the tyre's well pumped up and running straight. It does mean you get hairy moments when you skid and the studs don't bite until the bike's reached enough of an angle.

I would guess that your choices - wide, heavy and more studs - will be not so much slow as glacial.

greenamex2

Schwalbe winters.

Pumped up to 80psi to minimise rolling loss.

Works really well.

Had Schwalbe Mondials before, the winters stopped my sliding on tow path frost.

Fantastic on frozen mud, beat or matched some of my Strava PR's set on Mondials in the dry.

They a hell of a racket on tarmac even at 80 psi.

Oh and they grip well on ìce, certainly better than my next door neighbours car that slid down his drive and totalled my wifes car!

jds_1981

Winters too, think they've saved me at least spill in the winter and have left me riding confidently over ice patches

DrLex

athlete shop have the ones for 700cc wheels - shown as 622 and in either 30 or 35 widths. See the detail on the rosebikes page that gabriel959 linked -
30-622 / 700x30C / 805 g / 3.5-6.5 bars
35-622 / 700x35C/ 870 g / 2.5-6.0 bars
42-622 / 700x40C / 905 g / 2.0-5.0 bars

(Another happy user of Schwalbe studded tyres - the extra weight improves the exercise!)

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Thanks for the responses so far, hopefully this thread might help others thinking about buying winter tyres.

Decided to go a bit left-field and buy the 45NRTH Gravdals.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Gravdals arrived a short while ago, very weird looking in the flesh, chunky tread ~5mm deep; pairs of studs in a v-pattern that repeats every four blocks; many tread blocks having a single ~1cm "hair" on them!

Very rough and ready ~800g each on the digital kitchen scales, not that balancing a wired bead tyre is particularly easy/accurate.

When I inspected the card wrapped around each tyre, I found a bit of printed paper enclosed in a plastic wrapper, at which point I thought I was going to get advice on how to bed these tyres in and increase the odds of not losing studs. Nope, no advice there or on the http://45nrth.com/products/studded-tires/gravdal webpage.

So now I've got at least three dilemmas...
Should I go for another short ride in wet weather for the third day running? Probably, yes, keeps a good routine going!
Do I want to fit the Gravdals for this ride? Not a necessity, it's ~8C and drizzling
Where in the 35-75PSI range do I want to inflate them to for bedding-in, given my ~85Kg kitted out heft for riding on my ~11Kg Wazoo? :?

greenamex2

Lighter than my Schwalbes then!

The Schwalbe bedding in process about 25 miles on tarmac with no hard acceleration or braking.

Shouldn't be far off that.

meanredspider

Ice Spiker Pros - just because Rolf reckons I'm trying to stop anybody buying the Winters (which, of course, I'm not)

My Pros lasted at least 5000km on tarmac - I think that they are brilliant tyres. They grip on ice like sh!t to a blanket. If you want the safest tyre, they'd be my choice without hesitation.

Winters will work but, in my experience at least, they are less safe. Even if just by dint of them having less studs. Be wary of inflating them too high - you have even less studs in contact with the surface. I've also found they shed studs more quickly (it's a wise idea to buy spare studs for any tyre). They are considerably heavier - but roll better.

You pays your money....

jds_1981

I understand that trackstands increase the risk of pulling the studs out, which would tally with my experience.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

A perhaps silly question has come to mind, looking out of the window, seeing the trees swaying a little, ahead of the winds due in ~90 minutes...

Do studded winter tyres help or hinder in brisk cross wind, or neither? Not necessarily when there is frost/ice on the tarmac.

greenamex2

I haven't noticed any difference.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

I was wondering if in moderate cross winds without slippy conditions, the studs' extra grip might help prevent being blown sideways as much.

On a more serious/positive note, the cold weather gods may have not heard I bought the Gravdals, we may experience a chilly start to the day on both Saturday and Sunday. Might be a good excuse to fit the Gravdals a bit later on for early morning weekend rides. :twisted:

Still yet to find any advice regarding tyre pressure for the first few rides on the Gravdals. With Schwalbe studded tyres, are you supposed to run them near the lowest advised pressure on the tyre sidewalls?

greenamex2

On the Schwalbes the low pressure is reserved for snow/ice.

The rest of the time or light/mixed conditions just run as normal within the limits.

I run at 80 psi for frost and frozen mud. Not had an issue yet and rolls ok but noisily on tarmac.

bompington

NitrousOxide wrote:

I was wondering if in moderate cross winds without slippy conditions, the studs' extra grip might help prevent being blown sideways as much.

Well, firstly I'm not sure that it's grip that's the limiting factor - I would say that getting blown off course is much more likely.
But if grip is important, I find that studs seem to squirm a bit when the going gets marginal, and they give something like the same amount of grip as wet slicks - whether on dry, wet or icy roads.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Thanks for that, but I was thinking more about the bedding-in pressures by Schwalbe users, that are supposed to secure the studs (during the first 25 miles?) before running them at "normal" pressure.

greenamex2

Don't recall seeing anything pressure related for bedding in.

nothing on the site

wolfsbane2k

my Snow studs had a settling in pressure, can't remember what it was though.
I can't ever imagine a wind being strong enough to blow me sideways that I loose grip on the tarmac though, but I'm a heavy lump.

UndercoverElephant

I've been using Sumoi W106 tyres on the MTB for the past five winters. A bit pricey, but top class. I aim for icy puddles on road and pretty much go anywhere off road. Not had chance to try them out in very thick snow yet, but for ice, they're superb. Had Marathon Winters before that, and the Sumoi really are worlds away.

meanredspider

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Had Marathon Winters before that, and the Sumoi really are worlds away.

Careful - Rolf F will think you've joined me in "stopping anybody buying marathon winters"

UndercoverElephant

meanredspider wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Had Marathon Winters before that, and the Sumoi really are worlds away.

Careful - Rolf F will think you've joined me in "stopping anybody buying marathon winters"

I didn't dislike them as much as you do, but they are hard work and the studs do tend to fall off. Even though I'm on a MTB instead of a CX, my speed is faster on the Suomi tyres.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Thought I'd ressurect a winter thread as a heads up that early morning temps are falling in the next few days, expected to feel like approx -1C or so around Southampton on Saturday around 0700 BST (clocks go to GMT on Saturday night), might be the odd spot of frost/ice around.

Time to dust those ice tyres off and get them fitted, oh the joys of ~750g 700x38 Gravdals to keep me hopefully upright on the early morning commute!

greenamex2

Putting it off as long as I can. Trying gravel tyres as an intermediate tyres with Marathon Winters on the hybrid for really bad days.

wolfsbane2k

NitrousOxide wrote:

Thought I'd ressurect a winter thread as a heads up that early morning temps are falling in the next few days, expected to feel like approx -1C or so around Southampton on Saturday around 0700 BST (clocks go to GMT on Saturday night), might be the odd spot of frost/ice around.

Time to dust those ice tyres off and get them fitted, oh the joys of ~750g 700x38 Gravdals to keep me hopefully upright on the early morning commute!

Nice resurrect, and thanks for the warning, means I've got to do some fettling with again

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Has anyone tried those Marathon GTs or the 365 version in slippy conditions? Nearly bought a pair to try when they were ~£18 each at Halfords/Wiggle in the summer.

xbnm

I have a mate that has some of GT365 he thinks there as hard work to use as a marathon winter so if you have winters i would just use them for the extra safety margin.

On ice only studs will keep you upright.

Already had a few mornings up north with frost no proper ice yet but the winter bike is getting setup this weekend. Especially as some ongoing bridge strengthening work as removed all the natural drainage from the C2C where it goes under the A1M and theres a nice puddle already developing.